Disney Skyliner shutdown and evacuation - October 6 2019

[ImperfectPixie]

How many humans could be on the skyway at any one time? And those were completely open and would be almost no different than standing outside but with shade. Something guests do every day. Apples and oranges.

Both sides of this argument are starting to come off sounding rediculous. No people wont melt but yes it is unacceptable to leave people stuck up there for over three hours. No most people wont die but yes some elderly or young people could be put in a dangerous position. No air conditioning wouldnt matter (due to battery life) but yes they need to figure out a faster way to evac.

IMHO in an isolated incident like the one we seem to have seen they should move that car immediately (like they ended up doing) and get the line moving weither it be backwards out of necessity or forwards and evac that way. Even if the car for some reason cant be directly taken off the line it should be moved by hand with the speed of the line to a place where it can be stored in an emergency if this is simply the ADA loading zone etc. Lastly i think unbolting the cabin from its hook should be a last resort option that can be done well in advance of a 3 hour delay. My concern isnt what went wrong its brand new and it will be worked out. My concern is the awful evac scenario we saw.

I agree - they need to figure out ways to lessen the amount human stuff interferes with what they need to do. (Better call-box communication to lessen unnecessary calls, numbers on the bottoms of the cars, the emergency kit one is trickier...I'd like to flog people that stole them/took stuff.)

 

[Incomudro]

Don't confuse concepts. The discussion is not the the gondolas will be cooled - it's about how they are built to resist accumulating heat from solar and how they handle air movement.

Cooling and avoiding accumulation are two different things.

Do you think it is any cooler sitting in a gondola that isn't moving, than in a automobile that is not moving, but has the windows rolled down and the sunroof vented?
It's the same concept.
"Passive cooling" is marketing speak for ventilation and tinted windows.
There are no miracle concepts at work on those Gondola cabins.
You know what would have been a good idea?
Solar powered fans mounted on the ceiling of the gondola that kick in when the line stops.

 

[RustySpork]

How many humans could be on the skyway at any one time? And those were completely open and would be almost no different than standing outside but with shade. Something guests do every day. Apples and oranges.

Both sides of this argument are starting to come off sounding rediculous. No people wont melt but yes it is unacceptable to leave people stuck up there for over three hours. No most people wont die but yes some elderly or young people could be put in a dangerous position. No air conditioning wouldnt matter (due to battery life) but yes they need to figure out a faster way to evac.

IMHO in an isolated incident like the one we seem to have seen they should move that car immediately (like they ended up doing) and get the line moving weither it be backwards out of necessity or forwards and evac that way. Even if the car for some reason cant be directly taken off the line it should be moved by hand with the speed of the line to a place where it can be stored in an emergency if this is simply the ADA loading zone etc. Lastly i think unbolting the cabin from its hook should be a last resort option that can be done well in advance of a 3 hour delay. My concern isnt what went wrong its brand new and it will be worked out. My concern is the awful evac scenario we saw.

We don't really know if this is an isolated incident or if a similar condition was found during their testing before opening to the public. This incident occurring in the first week is an indicator to me of missing something during testing (ex. how did they "load test"?), or that this condition was found during testing and perhaps they thought it had been corrected. This is something we'll probably never know because Disney won't publish the data. It's amazing to see the story that the media and the Disney PR machine is reporting, they're not calling it an accident..they're calling it an outage which is in my opinion a total fabrication.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

I've heard from two families who said the initial gift card offer that night was followed up the next day with comp'd stays.

That's pretty vague. Full stay? One night? Weekend? Full package or just room?
(Not saying that your account was vague...just the "offer.")

I can't imagine Disney shelling out multiple "full-week" vacation packages because people had a 3-hour delay. I'd imagine it was a free night if anything (no tickets).

 

[KC00]

It’s a little disconcerting that part of the reason for the holdup in getting everyone off was because it took them so long to identify and locate the person having a medical emergency because the gondolas are only numbered on the side and they were hard to see from the ground. That seems like a crazy scenario that they should have considered during the design process. Also is there no way to have GPS tracking on the gondola cars so they can locate a specific car more easily? If the report earlier in this thread is true than hundreds of people were stranded for an unnecessarily long time which likely led to additional panic and emergencies than was really necessary had they been able to identify and evacuate the original emergency quicker.

 

[RustySpork]

Do you think it is any cooler sitting in a gondola that isn't moving, than in a automobile that is not moving, but has the windows rolled down and the sunroof vented?
It's the same concept.
"Passive cooling" is marketing speak for ventilation and tinted windows.
There are no miracle concepts at work on those Gondola cabins.
You know what would have been a good idea?
Solar powered fans mounted on the ceiling of the gondola that kick in when the line stops.

Why only kick in then, if they're solar-powered it would be better for them to run continuously to reduce wear.

 

[halltd]

It’s a little disconcerting that part of the reason for the holdup in getting everyone off was because it took them so long to identify and locate the person having a medical emergency because the gondolas are only numbered on the side and they were hard to see from the ground. That seems like a crazy scenario that they should have considered during the design process. Also is there no way to have GPS tracking on the gondola cars so they can locate a specific car more easily? If the report earlier in this thread is true than hundreds of people were stranded for an unnecessarily long time which likely led to additional panic and emergencies than was really necessary had they been able to identify and evacuate the original emergency quicker.

If only they could have had a way for the passengers inside to flag down the responders on the ground and notify them which cabin was having the emergency....like glow sticks or something!

 

[RustySpork]

It’s a little disconcerting that part of the reason for the holdup in getting everyone off was because it took them so long to identify and locate the person having a medical emergency because the gondolas are only numbered on the side and they were hard to see from the ground. That seems like a crazy scenario that they should have considered during the design process. Also is there no way to have GPS tracking on the gondola cars so they can locate a specific car more easily? If the report earlier in this thread is true than hundreds of people were stranded for an unnecessarily long time which likely led to additional panic and emergencies than was really necessary had they been able to identify and evacuate the original emergency quicker.

If they only had a device people could wear with a long-range transmitter that could be used to locate guests.

Hmm...

 

[Lilofan]

It's amazing to see the story that the media and the Disney PR machine is reporting, they're not calling it an accident..they're calling it an outage which is in my opinion a total fabrication.

Lawyers love the word "accident". Even if the word is "outage", they can spin it like an elected official.

 

[RustySpork]

Lawyers love the word "accident". Even if the word is "outage", they can spin it like an elected official.

Not calling it what it actually is would in my mind be more fuel for a lawyer with all of the evidence of the facts (pictures, etc) being out in public view. IANAL though.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

We don't really know if this is an isolated incident or if a similar condition was found during their testing before opening to the public. This incident occurring in the first week is an indicator to me of missing something during testing (ex. how did they "load test"?), or that this condition was found during testing and perhaps they thought it had been corrected. This is something we'll probably never know because Disney won't publish the data. It's amazing to see the story that the media and the Disney PR machine is reporting, they're not calling it an accident..they're calling it an outage which is in my opinion a total fabrication.

Well, in fairness, I can conceive of a scenario where it's technically correct. By purported eyewitness accounts, there was an outage that caused a stoppage in the station among the gondola cars that were ultimately involved. If we assume that is accurate then the scenario looks like this:
1) Full stop on the entire TIG line.
2) Line cleared, motion is supposed to resume.
3) The drive system to launch the blue gondola fails to operate for a mechanical/electrical reason...an "outage"
4) Havoc ensues...

 

[Incomudro]

"experienced an unexpected downtime" seems a little light on information for those thinking about taking the Skyline in the future or choosing a resort for the Skyline. I'm guessing the Mom's Panel isn't going to post a video on "things to do while you wait to be evacuated."

I'm very happy that I made the decision to stay at Dolphin this coming April, where we can walk, boat or bus our way around - rather than book at Caribbean Beach - where we would have relied on the gondolas.
Not that I'm personally too concerned about the gondolas, but convincing my wife that she should have no concerns would be nigh on impossible when she can point to this incident.
"Honey, they're fine - you have nothing to worry about."
"Really???" "People were stuck in those things for hours already."

 

[Movielover]

Do you think it is any cooler sitting in a gondola that isn't moving, than in a automobile that is not moving, but has the windows rolled down and the sunroof vented?
It's the same concept.
"Passive cooling" is marketing speak for ventilation and tinted windows.
There are no miracle concepts at work on those Gondola cabins.
You know what would have been a good idea?
Solar powered fans mounted on the ceiling of the gondola that kick in when the line stops.

Yes there is still a difference. The gondolas are much higher up off the ground with less physical objects surrounding them, allowing for more airflow and wind to reach the gondola even when motionless. Then you also count in the floor and ceiling vents which allows hotter air to be pushed upwards and out by cooler air moving through the bottom.

It is definitely not the same as just sitting in your car.

 

[Andrew C]

Do you think it is any cooler sitting in a gondola that isn't moving, than in a automobile that is not moving, but has the windows rolled down and the sunroof vented?
It's the same concept.
"Passive cooling" is marketing speak for ventilation and tinted windows.
There are no miracle concepts at work on those Gondola cabins.
You know what would have been a good idea?
Solar powered fans mounted on the ceiling of the gondola that kick in when the line stops.

We should really just ask an expert who has experience with gondola design (more specifically this particular design) and passive cooling. Anyone?

 

[RustySpork]

Yes there is still a difference. The gondolas are much higher up off the ground with less physical objects surrounding them, allowing for more airflow and wind to reach the gondola even when motionless. Then you also count in the floor and ceiling vents which allows hotter air to be pushed upwards and out by cooler air moving through the bottom.

It is definitely not the same as just sitting in your car.

If the ambient temperature is 89 degrees above, below, and around the gondola, you can expect the outside air entering the gondola to cool the cabin to 89 degrees if the air is moving. Now add 8 humans and potentially sunlight as well. I'm not saying it's a dire situation or anything, but it's going to be pretty uncomfortable..and probably smelly too.

 

[Timmay]

Like the document the hospital makes you sign right before you go into surgery?

Consent forms????

 

[SpoiledBlueMilk]

Do you think it is any cooler sitting in a gondola that isn't moving, than in a automobile that is not moving, but has the windows rolled down and the sunroof vented?
It's the same concept.
"Passive cooling" is marketing speak for ventilation and tinted windows.
There are no miracle concepts at work on those Gondola cabins.
You know what would have been a good idea?
Solar powered fans mounted on the ceiling of the gondola that kick in when the line stops.

All I can say is based on my personal experience on Saturday at 4:00 pm with the outside temperature in the high 90's with a real feel of close to 100. There was a slight breeze in the area between Epcot and the Rivera, but nothing crazy. The Skyliner gondolas were getting a very nice breeze - everyone in the gondola commented about how good the airflow was. We stopped once along the line for a minute. We didn't suddenly become an oven. Yes, I imagine after 3 hours it would be disturbingly hot. You can say the same thing with any transit system that breaks down in warm weather. nothing like a broken down Metro train in DC in August to make you cranky and let me tell you - that happens on a near daily basis while I would expect the Skyliner to break down on a rare occasion.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

It’s a little disconcerting that part of the reason for the holdup in getting everyone off was because it took them so long to identify and locate the person having a medical emergency because the gondolas are only numbered on the side and they were hard to see from the ground. That seems like a crazy scenario that they should have considered during the design process. Also is there no way to have GPS tracking on the gondola cars so they can locate a specific car more easily? If the report earlier in this thread is true than hundreds of people were stranded for an unnecessarily long time which likely led to additional panic and emergencies than was really necessary had they been able to identify and evacuate the original emergency quicker.

To expand on that - is there an emergency callbox in each cabin? How would you even let someone know there IS an emergency, let alone car number - is that on the inside as well?

 

[RustySpork]

All I can say is based on my personal experience on Saturday at 4:00 pm with the outside temperature in the high 90's with a real feel of close to 100. There was a slight breeze in the area between Epcot and the Rivera, but nothing crazy. The Skyliner gondolas were getting a very nice breeze - everyone in the gondola commented about how good the airflow was. We stopped once along the line for a minute. We didn't suddenly become an oven. Yes, I imagine after 3 hours it would be disturbingly hot. You can say the same thing with any transit system that breaks down in warm weather. nothing like a broken down Metro train in DC in August to make you cranky and let me tell you - that happens on a near daily basis while I would expect the Skyliner to break down on a rare occasion.

That was my experience as well. There was a noticeable temperature change when stopped for more than a minute, but it didn't turn into an oven.

 

[Movielover]

If the ambient temperature is 89 degrees above, below, and around the gondola, you can expect the outside air entering the gondola to cool the cabin to 89 degrees if the air is moving. Now add 8 humans and potentially sunlight as well. I'm not saying it's a dire situation or anything, but it's going to be pretty uncomfortable..and probably smelly too.

Point is air is still flowing freely through the gondola. It simply makes the gondola feel like outside, not a oven like a car parked in a parking lot would be. If you can survive being outside in WDW for a whole day you can survive being in a gondola. Simple as that.