News Disney Riviera Resort announced

[Bocabear]

I prefer the look of BLT to the Contemporary. But either way, I love the views and walking to MK, so they’re winners in my book!

We’ve stayed at Poly, BC, BW, SSR and Grand Californian in DL. Pros and cons of each, but for location I just can’t beat BLT.

I am a BLT fan too! That's our home resort.

 

[prberk]

I know you didn’t ask me, but as a BLT owner, here’s the appeal to me:

— It’s part of the Contemporary — so contemporary design from the outside and in. Consistent with the original in that sense.

— Amazing views available of MK, monorail, lake, and other resorts at a distance.

— Walk to MK.

The second two are the things that you can’t get anywhere else in the world.

So I don’t care that the theming of the hotel itself isn’t uniquely Disney except for the artwork.

All of which is already true of the Contemporary. The key to my question was the last two words -- "by itself" -- since the discussion at hand was essentially about the minimal Disney detail offered by The Riviera, itself a plain new building added to a resort that was otherwise fully themed.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I am a BLT fan too! That's our home resort.

Best choice we made buying points there!! We were going to sell our SSR points but ended up hanging onto them and using them for rD short trips booking other locations at 7mos. But the best are still our summer BLT trips...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

All of which is already true of the Contemporary. The key to my question was the last two words -- "by itself" -- since the discussion at hand was essentially about the minimal Disney detail offered by The Riviera, itself a plain new building added to a resort that was otherwise fully themed.

Easy. I would stay at BLT if it was “by itself”. Location, views.

Sounds like Riviera is a contender with location and views as well. If we could walk to Epcot from there, SOLD for sure! I’d dump our SSR points.

 

[Missing20K]

My whole point is the concept art shows next to nothing. A far away look at the hotel tower where a car would approach. Generally not the most appealing part of a resort. Nothing on the inside, nothing of the actual theme and really not even a close up look at possible details on the exterior of the tower. There are places like Wilderness Lodge or Polynesian where the architecture of the physical buildings is a major part of the show and then there are very well themed resorts like Universal’s Royal Pacific (which many people feel rivals the Poly on overall theme) where the hotel towers are just rectangle buildings but there are many theme elements to make the resort feel very Polynesian. See below.
Yellow building is the hotel tower:
View attachment 316351

The lobby has some great theming:
View attachment 316350
View attachment 316352

Plus a very tropical feeling pool area.
View attachment 316353

If the concept art shows next to nothing, why create it? To give the client an idea of the "feel" of the project, the overall massing, the human scale of the building, and gets people excited to spend money (whether the client, or the client's client, etc.). I would argue this concept art most certainly shows exterior detail and theming, and you seemed to agree earlier:

The concept art has similar elements like the wrought iron oven the windows/balconies and some of the rounded structures on the roof.

Also:

I doubt this will be as iconic as Wilderness Lodge or Polynesian but I do think the tower will still look impressive when approaching by car.

A far away look at the hotel tower where a car would approach. Generally not the most appealing part of a resort.

I'm confused. Is the look of a hotel when approaching by car important or not?

Those hotel towers are god-awful ugly and contribute almost nothing to the theme or overall feel of the resort. The well appointed lobby, pool and landscaping notwithstanding. As those are nice areas, they still merely enhance what are god-awful ugly boxes.

My conclusion on this thread is it seems there are a significant number of people that seem to not care about the theming of a hotel until they do. A plain box with nice amenities? First class hotel. A highly themed resort with nice amenities? First class hotel.

I guess this is why Disney can charge the premium they do? As others have said, its all about location, amenities and maybe some theming in pools and landscaping. Throw a hidden Mickey duvet on the bed and call it a night.

 

[prberk]

Easy. I would stay at BLT if it was “by itself”. Location, views.

Sounds like Riviera is a contender with location and views as well. If we could walk to Epcot from there, SOLD for sure! I’d dump our SSR points.

Sadly, it seems that you are making the point that "location and views" (which I assume you mean from the window, as opposed to the interior view -- such as details and theming -- of the resort). So, no theming necessary, just gimme a short walk to a park and a view of it out of my window, and I am good.

By that judgment, you have just summed up the old Disneyland and tore down the original arguments that Walt and the rest of the company used to plan WDW with "the blessing of size." So, your argument would seem to say that they wasted a lot of money on theming and sight lines from the park in the past. To hell with the authentically chosen flora at the Polynesian -- just need the beach view of the MK and short monorail ride to it.

To the contrary, the Boardwalk is within walking distance of Epcot but is both beautifully themed to classic Victorian-era Atlantic City AND below the height that would hurt sightlines from within the park. It is a complete resort, as it should be for the price -- something that can stand alone, even though it is also a part of the larger WDW. It is not a 15-story add-on that completely breaks theme from its surrounding resort and seems to offer the theming and beauty of the latest Anywhere, USA, Hilton. (Yes, that is based on concept art, but remember that concept art is meant to sell the best of a new place. Compare to EPCOT Center's concept art, etc.)

So, my vote is for the Boardwalk and Polynesian and Grand Floridian and Yacht Club and Fort Wilderness and even the Contemporary (as fitting Tomorrowland in my avatar) and other well-themed and complete resorts within a short distance of the parks, rather than the Disney Hilton within sightlines of the park.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Sadly, it seems that you are making the point that "location and views" (which I assume you mean from the window, as opposed to the interior view -- such as details and theming -- of the resort). So, no theming necessary, just gimme a short walk to a park and a view of it out of my window, and I am good.

By that judgment, you have just summed up the old Disneyland and tore down the original arguments that Walt and the rest of the company used to plan WDW with "the blessing of size." So, your argument would seem to say that they wasted a lot of money on theming and sight lines from the park in the past. To hell with the authentically chosen flora at the Polynesian -- just need the beach view of the MK and short monorail ride to it.

To the contrary, the Boardwalk is within walking distance of Epcot but is both beautifully themed to classic Victorian-era Atlantic City AND below the height that would hurt sightlines from within the park. It is a complete resort, as it should be for the price -- something that can stand alone, even though it is also a part of the larger WDW. It is not a 15-story add-on that completely breaks theme from its surrounding resort and seems to offer the theming and beauty of the latest Anywhere, USA, Hilton. (Yes, that is based on concept art, but remember that concept art is meant to sell the best of a new place. Compare to EPCOT Center's concept art, etc.)

So, my vote is for the Boardwalk and Polynesian and Grand Floridian and Yacht Club and Fort Wilderness and even the Contemporary (as fitting Tomorrowland in my avatar) and other well-themed and complete resorts within a short distance of the parks, rather than the Disney Hilton within sightlines of the park.

*sigh* I've stayed at many WDW hotels because I like the varied theming option. I appreciate all the lovely details inside and outside the parks. And as I already said, BLT is consistent with The Contemporary style-wise.

That said, YES -- I WILL take a less-themed hotel with a walk to the Magic Kingdom -- something available nowhere else in the world -- over a more themed hotel where I am not as close or don't have that view.

I'm not making an argument to anyone. I'm sharing my preference. I'd imagine many agree with me, or none of these "towers" would be going up.

And as an aside, I think it's amusing that you include the Grand Floridian as a themed hotel. It's just a fancy-shmancy hotel with Victorian vs. modern architecture -- a style clone of the Hotel del in San Diego. That's pretty thin as far as theming goes. And they don't have the views or the walk to MK. When I stayed at the del I didn't imagine that I was in a "themed resort".

 

[Missing20K]

And as an aside, I think it's amusing that you include the Grand Floridian as a themed hotel. It's just a fancy-shmancy hotel with Victorian vs. modern architecture -- a style clone of the Hotel del in San Diego. That's pretty thin as far as theming goes. And they don't have the views or the walk to MK. When I stayed at the del I didn't imagine that I was in a "themed resort".

Hotel Del Coronado. And it was supposed to be themed to the "Del", Mount Washington Resort in Bretton Woods NH and parts of the Biltmore-Belleview Hotel on the Gulf Coast. I'd say the GF hits those marks darn near spot on.

IMO, of course. *sigh*

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Hotel Del Coronado. And it was supposed to be themed to the "Del", Mount Washington Resort in Bretton Woods NH and parts of the Biltmore-Belleview Hotel on the Gulf Coast. I'd say the GF hits those marks darn near spot on.

I lived in SD and stayed there multiple times -- everyone called it the hotel del.

So the "theme" is a copy of multiple hotels still running in this country. That's weak as far as theme goes, for anyone to whom theme is or paramount importance -- IMO.

Victorian architecture >> modern architecture. OK, but that's not much of a "theme".

 

[Missing20K]

I lived in SD and stayed there multiple times -- everyone called it the hotel del.

So the "theme" is a copy of multiple hotels still running in this country. That's weak as far as theme goes, for anyone to whom theme is or paramount importance -- IMO.

Victorian architecture >> modern architecture. OK, but that's not much of a "theme".

I also stayed there and I understand people call it the "Del", I was only clarifying for those who might not know what you referred to.

As far as "weak" theming, what say you of Animal Kingdom Lodge, because there are African Safari resorts that look very similar to AKL. The Poly, I mean it's only themed to the Polynesian Islands, which I believe one can go visit. Or keeping it stateside, how about WL, which is modeled after the Great Lodges of the National Park System, which last I checked are still in operation. CBR, I can just go to Jamaica, POR/POFQ, well I will just go to New Orleans then.

The style of architecture should help to enhance and reinforce the theme, not be the end all.

 

[Bocabear]

I lived in SD and stayed there multiple times -- everyone called it the hotel del.

So the "theme" is a copy of multiple hotels still running in this country. That's weak as far as theme goes, for anyone to whom theme is or paramount importance -- IMO.

Victorian architecture >> modern architecture. OK, but that's not much of a "theme".

I think the Grand Flo has a lot of style, and yes a vernacular architectural style can be a theme unto itself... To me the Grand Flo did not go quite far enough in theming...it could have been a little more especially on the secondary buildings, but the general was iconic, beautiful... and memorable...much like the other Monorail resorts...
The Riviera hotel (based on their released Concept art to excite the public) is nice...not a wow, not really iconic as it resembles many hotels in the area, and not particularly memorable....It is probably just going to be a product of the Disney company during this era... Sparsely themed in a style that is quite frankly hard to put your finger on because it has been so watered down.. It is much like a nicer version of POP resorts.. A plain box with some extraneous theming thrown on for adornment. I am hoping that the final details create more of a splash...I hope that they are truly not just building a big box Marriott hotel with a mansard roof on top, but their track record lately shows no such creativity...quite frankly the opposite... The de-furbishment of the Flying Fish into a common ho-hum Trulucks chain style upscale restaurant... The Captains Galley defurbished into a rather funereal Restoration Hardware cafeteria... Maybe they are jobbing everything out? I struggle to understand...

 

[Bocabear]

All of Disney is themed after other hotels and locations. Goodness gracious. You talk out both sides of your mouth and it is EXHAUSTING. Add in the fact that you have little to no knowledge of the history of the resort, or the care and planning that went into it, and it's just pointless to discuss anything with you.

All your posts boil down to this....

"Dur. I like Dizzy Werld"

Let's discuss ideas without attacking personally

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I also stayed there and I understand people call it the "Del", I was only clarifying for those who might not know what you referred to.

As far as "weak" theming, what say you of Animal Kingdom Lodge, because there are African Safari resorts that look very similar to AKL. The Poly, I mean it's only themed to the Polynesian Islands, which I believe one can go visit. Or keeping it stateside, how about WL, which is modeled after the Great Lodges of the National Park System, which last I checked are still in operation. CBR, I can just go to Jamaica, POR/POFQ, well I will just go to New Orleans then.

The style of architecture should help to enhance and reinforce the theme, not be the end all.

For the average WDW guest, I'd suspect far fewer have experienced an African safari or Polynesian island vacation, as compared to seen some Victorian architecture somewhere along the way.

AKL and Poly are more immersive, and I can tell you from my personal experience that while there is ZERO change that I'll vacation in a cabin somewhere, I loved WL in WDW! Those experiences / environments are more unique than just a Victorian building. A Victorian building is akin to a modern building IMO -- different aesthetics, but equal level of "theming".

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think the Grand Flo has a lot of style, and yes a vernacular architectural style can be a theme unto itself... To me the Grand Flo did not go quite far enough in theming...it could have been a little more especially on the secondary buildings, but the general was iconic, beautiful... and memorable...much like the other Monorail resorts...
The Riviera hotel (based on their released Concept art to excite the public) is nice...not a wow, not really iconic as it resembles many hotels in the area, and not particularly memorable....It is probably just going to be a product of the Disney company during this era... Sparsely themed in a style that is quite frankly hard to put your finger on because it has been so watered down.. It is much like a nicer version of POP resorts.. A plain box with some extraneous theming thrown on for adornment. I am hoping that the final details create more of a splash...I hope that they are truly not just building a big box Marriott hotel with a mansard roof on top, but their track record lately shows no such creativity...quite frankly the opposite... The de-furbishment of the Flying Fish into a common ho-hum Trulucks chain style upscale restaurant... The Captains Galley defurbished into a rather funereal Restoration Hardware cafeteria... Maybe they are jobbing everything out? I struggle to understand...

I get what you're saying and don't entirely disagree. When I first saw the concept art, I thought French Riviera. I think it might all ultimately be in the details and finishings -- which we don't know anything about yet -- unless I missed something. But I'm not automatically against it because it's a "box".

No way that a Riviera-themed hotel is inherently less "themed" than the Grand Floridian -- if that's the standard for a sufficiently themed hotel in WDW. I think it'll be a question of details.

 

[Bocabear]

Definitely will be a question of details... It is surprising that they would create such a banal piece of concept art to uise to hype and promote the new resort...they (and evertone in the world) usually uses a piece of art that accentutes the best aspects of what is being built....not underplay it. Unfortunately I get the feeling that they are going to rely solely on their location and the Skyliner as the unique feature of the resort... the new guard of designers at TDO doesn't seem to understand theme and drama as relates to hospitality architecture.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Definitely will be a question of details... It is surprising that they would create such a banal piece of concept art to uise to hype and promote the new resort...they (and evertone in the world) usually uses a piece of art that accentutes the best aspects of what is being built....not underplay it. Unfortunately I get the feeling that they are going to rely solely on their location and the Skyliner as the unique feature of the resort... the new guard of designers at TDO doesn't seem to understand theme and drama as relates to hospitality architecture.

Could be... I think that enough people would be fine with that given the location and skyliner... they'd have to aim to go over and above what the customer is demanding here (I think) to offer something SUPER immersive in some way.

But honestly, I'm expecting something on the level of a Grand Floridian wrt theming/details. I think GF will be more "Disney-posh", but same level of theming; i.e a really nice resort in the Riviera.

 

[peter11435]

Definitely will be a question of details... It is surprising that they would create such a banal piece of concept art to uise to hype and promote the new resort...they (and evertone in the world) usually uses a piece of art that accentutes the best aspects of what is being built....not underplay it. Unfortunately I get the feeling that they are going to rely solely on their location and the Skyliner as the unique feature of the resort... the new guard of designers at TDO doesn't seem to understand theme and drama as relates to hospitality architecture.

Again. They have made no attempt to “hype and promote” this resort. They announced it because they had to as part of the skyliner announcement. Beyond that they have made no attempt to hype promote or provide any details about the resort, it’s theme or any of its amenities beyond the skyliner.

 

[pvtim]

Again. They have made no attempt to “hype and promote” this resort. They announced it because they had to as part of the skyliner announcement. Beyond that they have made no attempt to hype promote or provide any details about the resort, it’s theme or any of its amenities beyond the skyliner.

Totally agree!!! With this being a DVC property that is usually their MO. They are still in the middle of actively selling the Copper Creek units (and still trying to finish unloading Poly and Aulani). The last thing they would want is to have the future Riviera resort encroach on those sales. The less information about it the easier the Copper Creek sales will go.

 

[peter11435]

Totally agree!!! With this being a DVC property that is usually their MO. They are still in the middle of actively selling the Copper Creek units (and still trying to finish unloading Poly and Aulani). The last thing they would want is to have the future Riviera resort encroach on those sales. The less information about it the easier the Copper Creek sales will go.

Exactly. Had it not been for the skyliner announcement they likely wouldn’t have announced what they did when they did.

 

[Missing20K]

For the average WDW guest, I'd suspect far fewer have experienced an African safari or Polynesian island vacation, as compared to seen some Victorian architecture somewhere along the way.

AKL and Poly are more immersive, and I can tell you from my personal experience that while there is ZERO change that I'll vacation in a cabin somewhere, I loved WL in WDW! Those experiences / environments are more unique than just a Victorian building. A Victorian building is akin to a modern building IMO -- different aesthetics, but equal level of "theming".

Right!! And not all people can go to the "Del" or to New Hampshire or New Orleans or the National Parks, or the numerous other places Disney attempts to "transport" their guests. Not all guests get to be whisked away to a grand Victorian hotel at the turn of the century.

More immersive because of animals and decorations and a "beach" and palms and thatch? In comparison to ornate interiors, period dress and decorations and fixtures? Seems kinda similar to me.