Disney Purists vs. Disney Traditionalists

[MuRkErY]

I must admit.

Every time I walk past the Indy Speedway there is usually a decent line.

All though my dad did make this comment last year while walking past them "They haven’t got rid of those stupid car things yet" :lol:

Anyway, while I'm on my CP this summer my lil cousins might be coming over to visit to WDW for the first time. I'll have too see what they think of them

 

[imagineer boy]

No, it's incorrect. To theme ToT correctly, all four sides should be finished just as the front it.

And, by using your logic, the houses that were on Residential Street should have been finished completely as well.

Residentail street doesn't exist anymore.

The thing about movie sets is, they theme everything the camera can SEE. You can't see the backs of the facades. You CAN see the backs of ToT and E:E. Those must be themed. Because it really does ruin the illusion, and can make the experience seem less real.

 

[JustinTheClaw]

Ahh... I forgot... this is Your thread...

And about the interlectual conversation, as you call it nicely is IMO more a story full of nagging from a custodian who isn't happy with himself and his job... and if this is your way of life... so be it... but don't bother people who mean well... and still feel the Magic...

IMO you should be glad to be in custodial... but alas you're only an instigator...

If you even are in custodial... but for that, I'll check the employee locator...

Wow, apparently someone has developed a personal vendetta. Nothing like turning a simple phrase ("my thread") against the person who has a differing opinion from you. I may not own the website, but I started the topic, facilitated many of the discussions, and read and participate every day. Do I possess legal ownership of this thread? No. But I have put a lot of my time and my opinions on the topic into it. Opinions on the topic, I reiterate, not on other people. By the way, I appreciate the fact that you have taken it upon yourself to attempt to double-check my credentials.

To answer the question you never asked: yes, I am very happy with myself and my job, and I do still feel the magic. I am also not blind to the fact that Disney is a Company, and as such is prone to the same difficulties any company this size would have: miscommunication or lack of communication, budget restraints, egotistical executives, devotees and defectors, etc. I feel the magic so much that to see the company make so many mistakes and lose so many devotees emotionally pains me. Perhaps it's nostalgia - the simple idea that Disney could never be as magical to me as an adult as it was as a child. But now I see a new door opening with new ideas from renouned idea-people and I'm excited again...but that still doesn't erase past and current mistakes.

You're taking this thread, and my comments in it, way too personally. You are beginning to attack me, not just on my opinions, but now on my personage. I would like to point out to you that I have neither attacked nor insulted anyone on this site (or at least not intentionally). I also have not said nor implied that anyone's opinion was wrong. I have felt the need to correct a few errors in the facts that have been presented by you and others, and I have expressed a view that is contrary to yours, though just as valid; but I have not done it to imply that you are any less of a person. The bottom line is Disney may mean a lot to a lot of people, but in the long run it's only entertainment, and nothing worth fighting over.

As I said before, perhaps this isn't the right thread for you. Maybe you need to find one where everyone agrees with you and debate is not a major part of it. I personally like debate. I feel a passionate but polite and intelligent debate opens the minds of the people involved and allows us to see things from other perspectives, though not necessarily changing our opinions. If you wish to participate in this discussion, obviously I can do nothing about it, as you have repeatedly brought to my attention. Nor would I do anything about it if I could, unless you were truly being offensive to myself or others, which thus far you haven't been. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and either double-check your facts before you present them, or be prepared for someone to challenge them.

 

[imagineer boy]

Wow, you are smart.

So, thanks for the backpedal. You now agree that ToT is not themed correctly, according your logic.

Thanks for proving my point.

Have a nice day! :wave:

I have no idea what the hell it is you're talking about. ToT is themed correctly!!! That's what I've been saying. I'm comparing how its themed, compared to how unthemed the backside of everest is.

Or maybe you think I just don't understand because I'm a dumb, naive, sixteen year old adolesant who only cares about $ex, junk food, and punk rock.

 

[wannab@dis]

I have no idea what the hell it is you're talking about. ToT is themed correctly!!! That's what I've been saying. I'm comparing how its themed, compared to how unthemed the backside of everest is.

Or maybe you think I just don't understand because I'm a dumb, naive, sixteen year old adolesant who only cares about $ex, junk food, and punk rock.

No, the back of ToT is not completely themed. I've got a picture somewhere...

As for you... dumb? No, I don't think so. Naive? Somewhat. That's not an attack, but you just don't have the experience of life that will challenge the viewpoints that you have at this time. Adolescent? Of course... but that really just helps qualify my previous point.

As you get older, your perspectives WILL change and you'll be able to see the bigger picture instead of the narrow viewpoint that you currently have. Whether you want to admit it now, most of your posts have a huge self-centered slant. That's extremely common with teens and it's perfectly natural. Maturity and experience will bring the ability to see situations and include more and more parameters other than your personal needs and wants.

 

[JustinTheClaw]

Although the theming was good, it isnt 100% themed. If it were to be 100% themed, they wouldnt have named it the Hollywood Tower Hotel. Its in Florida, not Hollywood.

Just so you are aware, it is named the Hollywood Tower Hotel because when you are in that area of the Disney-MGM Studios you are supposed to be in a fantasy version of old Hollywood (by "fantasy version" I mean something that is recognizable as..., but not an authentic replication of...). Just as when you are in Fronteirland you are supposed to be in a fantasy version of the old west, or when you are in the France Pavilion at Epcot you are supposed to be in a fantasy version of France. Sunset Blvd., the street which the Hotel stands on, is actually a street in Hollywood (though realistically no where near Hollywood Blvd.). So in that respect the building is perfectly themed to its area.

If we're going to talk about an attraction that's poorly themed to its surrounding environment, let's discuss the Rock'N'Rollercoaster, shall we...?

 

[dxwwf3]

As you get older, your perspectives WILL change and you'll be able to see the bigger picture instead of the narrow viewpoint that you currently have. Whether you want to admit it now, most of your posts have a huge self-centered slant. That's extremely common with teens and it's perfectly natural. Maturity and experience will bring the ability to see situations and include more and more parameters other than your personal needs and wants.

Excellent point. It happend to me to a certain degree and I'm glad it did.

 

[speck76]

Wow

That's not like you speck

If they think the back side of Tot is themed....or even the front is "1 complete building" (yeah....it is a false front on the bottom) .....they are young....


I am SO over this place

 

[dxwwf3]

I am SO over this place

I hope you're talking about this thread and not the message boards completely.


I know it can be frustrating when someone doesn't see your point, but I don't know if idiots is the right word to use :wave:

 

[speck76]

I hope you're talking about this thread and not the message boards completely.


I know it can be frustrating when someone doesn't see your point, but I don't know if idiots is the right word to use :wave:

no...pretty much everything...

It seems too many kiddies that think 1998 was the prime have come aboard....and they are even worse than those that can not leave behind 1982...

 

[wdwmagic]

I've just had to delete about 30 posts of just petty name calling and arguing. I would remind some of you that if you do not agree with something, there is no need to resort to name calling and arguing. There is also no need to reply to everything. If a particular thread really irritates you, just ignore it. If you feel you need to reply, do so, and then move onto another thread.

 

[JustinTheClaw]

I've just had to delete about 30 posts of just petty name calling and arguing. I would remind some of you that if you do not agree with something, there is no need to resort to name calling and arguing. There is also no need to reply to everything. If a particular thread really irritates you, just ignore it. If you feel you need to reply, do so, and then move onto another thread.

Thank you, Steve @ WDW Magic. Fantastic icon, by the way!

 

[JustinTheClaw]

The thing is, the backside of E:E is VERY visible to people just arriving to the park in the parking lot. When they first see it, they go, "ehh its a building." And when they finally see E:E it its full glory in the park they'll go "Oh, look at that big building that's supposed to be a mountain. Not the awe inspiring effect we want to achience right?

Here's a link to prove the point some of us have been making. These pictures were taken just yesterday from various locations in the Animal Kingdom Guest parking lot. Sorry about the quality. I had to zoom in quite a bit and because it was late in the day the sun was shining on the front of the mountain. But believe me, in the morning and early afternoon it is very visable, esp. from the bridge on Osceola Parkway right before Animal Kingdom Lodge (which the Guest buses cross to reach the bus zone of the park), but I wasn't about to stop my car and stand on the bridge with all the crazy Cast Members doing 80 across it. Anyhoo, here they are:

http://members.aol.com/JustinTheClaw/everest.html

 

[speck76]

I think you have to ask yourself a few questions here.

1....do people that matter notice?
2....do people that matter care about the backside of the mountain?
3....do people that matter want WDW to spend millions to theme the back side of an attraction, instead of investing the money in a new attraction?

 

[JustinTheClaw]

I think you have to ask yourself a few questions here.

1....do people that matter notice?
2....do people that matter care about the backside of the mountain?
3....do people that matter want WDW to spend millions to theme the back side of an attraction, instead of investing the money in a new attraction?

I think you need to ask yourself one question:

How do you determine what people matter?

I think it's a very shallow-minded way of phrasing the questions. Are you saying that people who find faults in the "show" do not matter? If it weren't for the people who find the faults, Disney World would be a flawed show. One thing this thread has proven is that Disney fanatics, supposedly the ones who matter most, have a tendency to deny things of which they don't like the idea - myself included. You can't please all of the people all of the time, but you can at least try hardest to please the people who care enough to say something.

My point (in an attempt to answer your questions) is it's shoddy Imagineering. They could have finished the whole mountain and no one would have ever given it a thought and we wouldn't be having this discussion; but the fact is, they didn't. It's not a matter of "should they spend the money to finish the backside of the mountain?" but more a matter of "why didn't they finish it in the first place and not give us a reason to discuss the backside of the mountain?"

Even if they were to finish it within the next month or so it would be like having a tatoo removed. Anyone who had never seen it wouldn't know any different, because they would expect it to look that way; but all of the people who had seen it before would notice the difference and have a basis for comparison (and subsequently point it out to those who hadn't seen it). There's an opposite reaction to the "Epcot wand." People who had never seen Spaceship Earth before 2000 don't realize that something is different, but everyone who knew Spaceship Earth as it had been knows something is wrong. Had the wand been there all along, no one would talk about it or complain about it or analyze its asthetic or financial ramifications.

Everybody knows that Pirates of the Caribbean was the last Attraction Walt Disney supervised himself, and I'm sure we all know that he never lived to see its opening day. Do you know why? The Imagineers new Walt's health was fading. They were trying to finish the Attraction by the proposed deadline so that Walt would get to see it. Some of the Imagineers suggested that if they left out a few things, or opened the Attraction and then added more things along the way they could have it open in time. Walt basically told them that there was no point in opening if they didn't have a finished product. Because of that decision he never got to see his masterpiece. We did, however, see exactly what Walt wanted us to see, with no cut-backs or compromises. There were no complaints, or at least none that carried.

There are a lot of people talking about the back of Everest. The fact that this thread has become so focused on it is proof. Should they finish the mountain? That's up to the Imagineers, the executives and the people at Guest Relations who hear the comments about it. Should they have finished it before we had a chance to comment on it? I believe that's how Walt would have had it.

 

[dxwwf3]

I might not think that finishing the mountain would have made a TON of difference (I think some nice trees will do the job in the future), but that was a very well thought out and well written post.

 

[JustinTheClaw]

To add a little more food for thought before I go to bed, remember this:

Disneyland, and subequently Disney Worldwide Parks and Resorts were designed mainly for two purposes: to capture the imagination of children, and to awaken the child in all of us. When we see Disney World, we are meant to believe a pirate ship can fly, bears can sing and play instruments, dinosaurs can live again, and a snowcapped mountain can tower over Central Florida.

As we get older most of us lose the ability to accept things for face value. We know that there is a logical explanation for everything we see at Disneyland/World and that is what we accept. But what about the children? We may think that children are smarter today then when we were young, but the fact is they are not. They may know things that we did not, but that doesn't necessarily make them smarter. They can still be fooled by three simple things: faith, trust, and pixie dust. I cannot tell you how many children have approached me or other Cast Members after leaving Dinosaur and asking if the dinosaurs are real, or if the ghosts are real in The Haunted Mansion, or even asking if the yeti is real at Expedition Everest. (It breaks my heart to hear their parents ruin the illusion for their children by telling them no, that it's all fake.) These are the same children who talk to Mickey as if he is the one and only cartoon star, who belive that Cinderella is a real princess, and who wave to C-3PO and R2-D2 in the queue at Star Tours.

To us it's no big deal that you can see the show building of Everest, because we know it's there. We know it's not a real mountain and it's the show inside that counts. But what about the children who still believe that Disney World is real, or even the adults who still want to believe? Imagine if the first time you saw Mary Poppins you saw the wire that made her fly. That's what the backside of Everest represents: an unfinished illusion. Acceptable to some, a fantasy killer to others.

I close with an excerpt from Mouse Tales by David Koenig, taken from a Disneyland Cast Member log book (known affectionately as the Dopey Book): "Two little old ladies were walking past the Matterhorn and one said, 'Isn't it wonderful how they found a mountain to build an amusement park around?'"

 

[JustinTheClaw]

I might not think that finishing the mountain would have made a TON of difference (I think some nice trees will do the job in the future), but that was a very well thought out and well written post.

I agree that some thicker foliage might do the trick. (So I lied, that wasn't my final post of the night . . . sue me! ) Another idea I had recently was maybe planting ivy near the base of the building and letting it grow up the back and camouflage it with the trees. Don't know how long that would take though.

 

[Enderikari]

To us it's no big deal that you can see the show building of Everest, because we know it's there. We know it's not a real mountain and it's the show inside that counts. But what about the children who still believe that Disney World is real, or even the adults who still want to believe? Imagine if the first time you saw Mary Poppins you saw the wire that made her fly. That's what the backside of Everest represents: an unfinished illusion. Acceptable to some, a fantasy killer to others.

To quote Kevin Clash and Jim Henson (a genius who is, in my mind, on par with Walt Disney) -
"I've found that children keep their imaginations a lot longer than parents think they do. Parents are concerned that if kids see that a person operates the muppet, an illusion will be shattered. But I think kids see us just as the people who carry their friends around."

 

[Enderikari]

Here's a link to prove the point some of us have been making. These pictures were taken just yesterday from various locations in the Animal Kingdom Guest parking lot. Sorry about the quality. I had to zoom in quite a bit and because it was late in the day the sun was shining on the front of the mountain. But believe me, in the morning and early afternoon it is very visable, esp. from the bridge on Osceola Parkway right before Animal Kingdom Lodge (which the Guest buses cross to reach the bus zone of the park), but I wasn't about to stop my car and stand on the bridge with all the crazy Cast Members doing 80 across it. Anyhoo, here they are:

http://members.aol.com/JustinTheClaw/everest.html

Congrats... You just became the next General Grizz... Can we next expect your full trip report entitled, "Chipped Paint in Semi-Show Locations?"