Disney Playing catch up with Universal... Potter Disney's biggest mistake in 20 years...

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

You would think so, but that's not the case. Even for the day DA opens.

I have to wonder how many people in these apparently huge long lines that will happen when DA opens will be visiting for the day only to go back to Disney?

Does it matter if they go back to Disney or not?
The fact that they even felt like spending a couple hundred dollars on tickets, plus cab/rental car/shuttle and, the cost of food elsewhere, means quite a lot.
The whole point of magical express wasn't for guest convenience but to decrease rental cars and encourage people to stay on property. But it isn't working.
Oh and on your comment about Cabana Bay, it did just officially open on friday and last time I checked, when AOA & NFL opened, Disney was still offering discounts too, so what is your point sir?

 

[Bairstow]

No - because you confuse not changing a well received product... with not changing anything.

Coke may be selling the same product, but how they sell, where they sell, how they promote, how they distribute, how they price, what size do you sell, etc are all examples of how the company and products change to ensure they remain current, leverage new opportunities, and generally keep growing.. without "changing" Coca-Cola itself.

There is no sound business strategy that starts and ends with "Its been working, so lets just call it a day and keep doing the same until we start losing money"

...and Disney World has changed the non-product side of their business as well.
New ads, a greater emphasis on online/social media campaigns, and steadily raising prices.
Even before the New Fantasyland attractions opened, all this worked, with attendance and profits climbing.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Jim Hill has told some really interesting stories about Rowling's meetings with WDI when they were still in the race to get Potter, and the way Universal supposedly gave Rowling Audrey Geisel's phone number and invited her to call her and ask her opinions of how Universal treats the owners of their IP.

Anyone know where those are? I can't remember if that was on a podcast or in one of his articles.

From Jim Hill Media dated May 2007. Link...
Why (For) Disney doesn't feel all that bad about missing out on the theme park rights to "Harry Potter" ?

 

[JustInTime]

Not a mistake as far as I'm concerned for two reasons

1. No way Harry potter would have been as popular as Universal's version as Disney had no need to pull out all the stops and build an entire land.

2. The last thing I would have wanted is for DHS to become "the Place that had Harry potter"

I'd also add that while entire lands based on one IP is cool is some respects, I really hope it's a momentary trend (let's get Star Wars out of Disney's system and move on please)and we go back to more general lands with original rides and/or occasion IP based rides in larger original lands. Too much to ask for these days?

So instead DHS is that place that hasn't gotten a new attraction in almost a decade. No parade. A falling apart night time show. Dated stage shows and the Big hat. Basically you'd rather let DHS sit there stagnant than get a game changing new land like Harry Potter? Amazing. Sometimes Disney fans blow my mind. You love the parks for what they once were but when Disney continues to drift farther and farther away from what made you love the parks in the first place, you defend them! You do realize that the SAME thing happened with Star Wars when the park opened, right? Not a Disney IP. Biggest franchise of it's time...yet imagine the park without it now. Potter should have been the yin to star war's yang in the parks. But they blew it. And Disney knows it. (see Avatar)

 

[Cesar R M]

Heh. Pull the string to cast avada cadabra at the 3d spider.
Repeat 5 times per second for the next 3 minutes.

I suspect a lot of busted hands after mere minutes.

So instead DHS is that place that hasn't gotten a new attraction in almost a decade. No parade. A falling apart night time show. Dated stage shows and the Big hat. Basically you'd rather let DHS sit there stagnant than get a game changing new land like Harry Potter? Amazing. Sometimes Disney fans blow my mind. You love the parks for what they once were but when Disney continues to drift farther and farther away from what made you love the parks in the first place, you defend them! You do realize that the SAME thing happened with Star Wars when the park opened, right? Not a Disney IP. Biggest franchise of it's time...yet imagine the park without it now. Potter should have been the yin to star war's yang in the parks. But they blew it. And Disney knows it. (see Avatar)

to be honest, this sounds more like an issue of ego.. like some leader will never accept he could screw up in such a big deal. All because they tried to go cheap and the other side offered a way better product.

 

[kap91]

So instead DHS is that place that hasn't gotten a new attraction in almost a decade. No parade. A falling apart night time show. Dated stage shows and the Big hat. Basically you'd rather let DHS sit there stagnant than get a game changing new land like Harry Potter? Amazing. Sometimes Disney fans blow my mind. You love the parks for what they once were but when Disney continues to drift farther and farther away from what made you love the parks in the first place, you defend them! You do realize that the SAME thing happened with Star Wars when the park opened, right? Not a Disney IP. Biggest franchise of it's time...yet imagine the park without it now. Potter should have been the yin to star war's yang in the parks. But they blew it. And Disney knows it. (see Avatar)

Well first you assume that Disney would have built an amazing immersive potter land, which they wouldn't have. They would have built one attraction and gift shop at most. And it would have become the "Harry potter" park in just the way IOA has and completely lose it's identity among the general population.

Second you assume that I'm happy that it hasn't received many additions in that time period. I'm not. I'm not distressed either. Though I'm also familiar enough with how Disney operates to know that additions will eventually come. But new stuff always comes at a snails pace with Disney (at least as long as I've been going there (23 years)).

Third you mischaracterize DHS. While I hate the hat as much as anyone I can ignore it and it will come down some day, not having a parade isn't a big deal-I never watched it to begin with, Fantasmic is not falling apart - it's even been recently updated, and I happen to like the shows. Indy has always been a favorite I do not tire of. I go to and enjoy the Disney parks for what they currently offer not for what they may offer in the future, though of course I like new additions.

So yes I do defend them, they're not perfect by any means, but they're not in the dire state some seem to think they're in.

 

[randyrut]

So I have always been a huge WDW fanatic. They always got my money and we always stayed somewhere on the grounds for the entirity of our trips. Last time we went to UNI for a day trip, and we blown away at how wonderful it was there. The Harry Potter area was seriously perfection. We loved it so much that we didnt want to leave. The rides were fun, they had a variety for everyone. It was a huge surprise.

This trip, in August, we are staying at The Hard Rock at UNI for the first 3 nights of our trip, and Disney is getting the last 6 nights. Yes, Disney is still getting the majority of our time, but UNI has now eaten into 3 nights, and they are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I will never stop being a crazy WDW fanatic, but what UNI has accomplished has now changed my thought process. They have stolen some of my money away from Disney.

Anyone who thinks this is not a big deal is kinda crazy. I am sure this has happened with a ton of households. I dont think Disney should have acquired HP either, but I do think they better start upping their game soon or this will be a trend that will continue over the next 10 years and really start affecting their bottom line.

 

[flynnibus]

...and Disney World has changed the non-product side of their business as well.
New ads, a greater emphasis on online/social media campaigns, and steadily raising prices.
Even before the New Fantasyland attractions opened, all this worked, with attendance and profits climbing.

I think you need a conversation recap... you can start with your postulation that Uni spent money to build attractions... and disney didn't but still made lots of money. Stating "Just because Disney didn't make the same move Universal did doesn't mean they made a mistake."

Then you used classic coke as an example of 'give them what they want' as a justification for doing more of the same.

You miss the critical aspect that just because something works today.. doesn't mean that say stuff will work tomorrow and the need to constantly be evaluating and evolving.. even if you don't change your 'coke'

As for 'giving them what they want'... Good thing Walt wasn't satisfied with that He understood you can create things the customer doesn't even know they want yet.

 

[Beholder]

I think you need a conversation recap... you can start with your postulation that Uni spent money to build attractions... and disney didn't but still made lots of money. Stating "Just because Disney didn't make the same move Universal did doesn't mean they made a mistake."

Then you used classic coke as an example of 'give them what they want' as a justification for doing more of the same.

You miss the critical aspect that just because something works today.. doesn't mean that say stuff will work tomorrow and the need to constantly be evaluating and evolving.. even if you don't change your 'coke'

As for 'giving them what they want'... Good thing Walt wasn't satisfied with that He understood you can create things the customer doesn't even know they want yet.

Perfect. Giving or creating a service or product that the masses don't know that they want or need IS innovation, something Walt was more than a little in favor of.

Personally, I see letting HP go as a mistake. It happens. But by not answering or reacting to UNIs effort, that is the part I have trouble with. Universal, with HP, Transformers, IoA, is creating that nostalgia factor that Disney relies on so much. What is contemporary now will be "classic" in 10-20 years. The kids riding around on HP will be wanting to share that with their kids. THAT, I believe, is Disney's greatest danger.

Just my opinions.

 

[Bairstow]

I think you need a conversation recap... you can start with your postulation that Uni spent money to build attractions... and disney didn't but still made lots of money. Stating "Just because Disney didn't make the same move Universal did doesn't mean they made a mistake."

Then you used classic coke as an example of 'give them what they want' as a justification for doing more of the same.

You miss the critical aspect that just because something works today.. doesn't mean that say stuff will work tomorrow and the need to constantly be evaluating and evolving.. even if you don't change your 'coke'

As for 'giving them what they want'... Good thing Walt wasn't satisfied with that He understood you can create things the customer doesn't even know they want yet.

Walt also knew what he could re-release his old films on a rotation and make money on them, so he did.

I'm not arguing that Disney has reached an understanding that no updates or upgrades are needed to turn a profit, merely that they seem to have discovered that their optimum return does not require the level of expansion and expense demonstrated in the '80s and '90s, or even by Universal today.

And you're right, just because something pulls in tourists today doesn't mean it will pull them in tomorrow.
...but sometimes it will. Sometimes the thing you build in the 1970s still has drawing power 40 years later.



At some point, Walt Disney World may find that their fanbase grows tired of the rate at which their offerings are updated, replaced, and upgraded, and will take their children and their money elsewhere.
I used to think we had passed that point sometime in the mid '00s.
I was wrong; we still haven't found that point, and it may very well be we never reach that point.

 

[RandomPrincess]

So I have always been a huge WDW fanatic. They always got my money and we always stayed somewhere on the grounds for the entirity of our trips. Last time we went to UNI for a day trip, and we blown away at how wonderful it was there. The Harry Potter area was seriously perfection. We loved it so much that we didnt want to leave. The rides were fun, they had a variety for everyone. It was a huge surprise.

This trip, in August, we are staying at The Hard Rock at UNI for the first 3 nights of our trip, and Disney is getting the last 6 nights. Yes, Disney is still getting the majority of our time, but UNI has now eaten into 3 nights, and they are Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I will never stop being a crazy WDW fanatic, but what UNI has accomplished has now changed my thought process. They have stolen some of my money away from Disney.

Anyone who thinks this is not a big deal is kinda crazy. I am sure this has happened with a ton of households. I dont think Disney should have acquired HP either, but I do think they better start upping their game soon or this will be a trend that will continue over the next 10 years and really start affecting their bottom line.

We are the same Uni/IOA will be getting two days from us now, plus we will be staying on site with Uni so we can use Express Pass and early entry. We will not be extending out trip so WDW will only be getting 4 days from us and DHS/AK will mostly likely not be visited at all since we can put in a good 2 days at Epcot and MK.

 

[mikenatcity1]

Is it a win for Universal? I think so. Is it a lose fo Disney? I wouldn't say so. When Universal or IoA start getting more attendance than all of the Orlando Disney parks, it's hard to say who is winning. I know a lot of people that decided to add Disney to their trip because of Harry Potter and vice versa. For years i've done all Universal and Disney parks in 1 trip. I'm very interested in seeing Avatar (after finally seeing the movie for the first time). Will it be amazing? Yes. Value? I doubt it- i'm sure James Cameron wouldn't approve. I'm sure Disney is plannng something to bring people (and if not, they seem to be doing just fine without it).

I like the competition from both- in the end those of us that like both sets of parks win

 

[CinematicFusion]

From Yahoo News. Not the type of national buzz Disney wants to have.

Link: Universal makes big bet on Harry Potter — again
video on link, from Yahoo news..

"Universal management never expected the Wizarding World of Harry Potter to become as successful as it has – and neither did Disney (DIS). The media giant dropped its bid for the licensing rights to Harry Potter in 2006. “That was [Disney’s] biggest mistake in the last 20 years,” says Neil Begley, senior analyst at Moody’s Investors Services. Disney passed on Potter because it was costly and J.K. Rowling and Warner Bros. controlled the intellectual property, which goes against Disney’s modus operandi. “Universal was the beneficiary of that,” Begley adds.

Wizarding World’s popularity may have driven Disney to sign a long-term licensing agreement with "Avatar" director James Cameron, his producing partner Jon Landau and 20th Century Fox, to build an “Avatar”-themed land based on Cameron’s mythical planet of Pandora (expected to open at Disney’s Animal Kingdom in 2017).

“Disney did not want another ‘Harry Potter’ on its hands and is now playing catch up,” says Begley. The "Avatar" deal shows Disney is “willing to break the formula where essentially they had to own all the intellectual property and all the films and the rights around it, and they're doing what's necessary to remain fresh and attractive for consumers.”

Disney has some cards up it's sleeve. Star Wars being the Ace card. The Pirates franchise is strong and don't underestimate Avatar:Land of Pandora at AK. It's coming and it's going to be very impressive. Unfortunately for Disney both Star Wars and Avatar are a long long ways away. Potter land is in the now, it's new...and it's awesome!

Trust me, Disney doesn't feel the sting in its pocket book...yet. But, the entire Harry Potter land has hit Disney where it hurts the most...Pride.
It hurts when your competition one ups you, you get to hear how amazing Universal's land is and then hear people question whether you (Disney) could even pull off a Harry Potter land.
It hurts.

In 2016 we will see J.K. Rowling's Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them. It will be the first film in the highly anticipated spin off trilogy.
Harry Potter has 6 movies in the All Time Worldwide Box Office. One of those has cracked the top 4. Over 450 million Potter books have been sold.
There will only be one place for those fans to go if they want to walk in the world of Harry Potter.
Hats off to Universal. With the new movies on the way, this land will be popular for a long time.


If this doesn't hurt Disney, if they don't feel this sting, then maybe the wrong management is in office.
I think Disney is ready, I think Disney's future projects are going to be amazing in Florida.
I think we theme park fans are in for a real treat. Two titans fist to fist to see who can create the better theme park experience. Disney didn't want to play this game, they didn't want to even recognize Universal as a player. But Universal now has THE theme park destination in Florida that crosses all key target markets. AND...they just might have the best ride in the world now with Gringotts.

But...you will have to go to Universal to find out. It's not at Disney.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm still not convinced that Disney passed on Rowling, but more Rowling passing on Disney.

I think you're 100% right, Universal and Harry Potter-land are basically WDW's 5th gate. I think it's a very small percentage of people outside Orlando who would travel to Florida to only see Uni and Harry potter, but there's a much bigger percentage that are devoted not only to Disney's characters, but Star Wars, Indy, Pixar, Muppets, ect... plus Epcot, Animal Kingdom, the 2 water parks, and the resorts, even Disney's hotels have fan pages on the web

What remains to be seen here is will the people who like Harry Potter pay twice as much to see all the attractions that are now spread out across 2 parks? Just because Uni doubled down and built a sequel to Harry Potterland, doesn't mean everyone in the world will come and pay to see both. Potter fans will go see both, how many people know what a Gringott is, or are willing to pay extra to find out?

The changes in the Orlando market have proven that Universal Orlando Resort is not dependent on Walt Disney World for visitation. They can and are attracting more and more who are not going to Walt Disney World. That is a huge shift Disney wrong believed could never happen.

 

[lunchbox1175]

Yeah, but Universal didn't spend billions on an IT based system for it's Express pass system and all of that jazz.

@draybook , I usually agree with you, but I don't see why it matters that Disney decided to spend money on MM+ and Uni spent theirs on HP. MM+ , while the costs are mind blowing is infrastructure for all things technology at WDW for the future. To be able to implement the things that they have now, and implement and develop more things going forward, they had to have a starting point and set up and the initial cost of anything when setting it up is going to be the biggest chunk. MM+ will be ever changing and things will be added to it to enhance the guest experience (at least in Disney's eyes) for the next 25 years, you have to start some time. Where as, HP has some rides and shops that are supposedly great (I haven't been, so I don't want to comment unfairly), but what is going to happen with that in 25 years, look at the amount of change that has taken place at WDW in the past 25 years, this will probably happen to Uni as well, IMHO they will probably end up changing HP into something else down the road when all the shinny new ness of it wears off and something bigger and better comes along. Whereas the initial investment into technology will enable WDW to implement new tech and will be years ahead of everyone else because of it.

 

[Beholder]

I'm still not convinced that Disney passed on Rowling, but more Rowling passing on Disney.


The changes in the Orlando market have proven that Universal Orlando Resort is not dependent on Walt Disney World for visitation. They can and are attracting more and more who are not going to Walt Disney World. That is a huge shift Disney wrong believed could never happen.

I hope Disney takes note that UNI is doing things once believed beyond their ability. I hope they understand that aside from land size itself, they should never underestimate what UNI is capable of. I'm on team Disney, it's in my DNA, but sometimes humility is the best medicine.

 

[TubaGeek]

Would Disney rather lease Potter to their theme parks and pay JK royalities, or buy Star Wars outright and create new content across all the mediums at their disposal.

Yeah, so... where's that new content?

A dark ride for the entire family through Hogwarts castle complete with wands. It would have captured the essence of the earlier books in the Harry Potter series perfectly.

I simply cannot believe that Disney would have done Potter at anything CLOSE to the level that Uni achieved. And one ride for "the entire family" wouldn't have "captured the essence... perfectly". By books 3 and 4, stuff starts to get DARK. It's a young adult series to grow up on, if you want to do an E-ticket attraction, it's gonna have a height requirement for content alone.

 

[nor'easter]

We are the same Uni/IOA will be getting two days from us now, plus we will be staying on site with Uni so we can use Express Pass and early entry. We will not be extending out trip so WDW will only be getting 4 days from us and DHS/AK will mostly likely not be visited at all since we can put in a good 2 days at Epcot and MK.

Exactly the same here. Disney is ing off its serious fans.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

@draybook Whereas the initial investment into technology will enable WDW to implement new tech and will be years ahead of everyone else because of it.

I always book my word travel based on who has the best tech.

 

[Cesar R M]

I simply cannot believe that Disney would have done Potter at anything CLOSE to the level that Uni achieved. And one ride for "the entire family" wouldn't have "captured the essence... perfectly". By books 3 and 4, stuff starts to get DARK. It's a young adult series to grow up on, if you want to do an E-ticket attraction, it's gonna have a height requirement for content alone.

I think they might have done well, but not in the current days with Rasulo "The budget cutter" and his "do it on the cheap" mantra.