News Disney plans to include a black Santa Claus at Walt Disney World this year as the company continues its diversity and inclusion program

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
I will say, I believe they have made some changes to the show since broadway reopened, to address a bit of those issues.

I would be interested to hear what the cast and others think of those changes and where the show currently sits with that.
I wrote an article about this topic last year, and received actual d3@th thr3Ats from HAMILTON fans. I am glad that there are changes being made and that LMM, for as grating as I think he is, seems open to criticism.

I have a few friends that are in HAMILTON productions--either Broadway or the touring ones, and it means the world to them to be in that show and to play those roles. I am never going to tell them how to feel about it. Especially since in my early days of auditioning I used to be told all of the time, "this isn't THE KING AND I," and "we aren't casting for WEST SIDE STORY," I know how hard it is to be cast and be seen. As flawed as HAMILTON is, I am grateful that it HAS opened up conversations about casting--especially when talking about historical shows set in times and places that BIPOC would have absolutely existed and NOT casting them is, in fact, the revisionist history.
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
I know how hard it is to be cast and be seen. As flawed as HAMILTON is, I am grateful that it HAS opened up conversations about casting--especially when talking about historical shows set in times and places that BIPOC would have absolutely existed and NOT casting them is, in fact, the revisionist history.
Frankly, everything can be considered harmful if we look at it too deeply, which is entirely possible. I think Hamilton's worth is exactly in what you'e stating - it's opened up conversations around casting, but it's also encouraged us to look at history a different way. It's a reclamation of the narrative, and I think that's where the power lies. Also a brilliant illustration of the theatre craft, down to the construction of it's lyrics. IMO its virtues far outweigh its weaknesses, largely concentrated and called out by Twitter fans who are perpetually miserable. ;)
 

Gringrinngghost

Well-Known Member
HAMILTON has so many issues. It purposely erases actual historical BIPOC figures in favor of pushing the "we are all immigrants" narrative (which Native people and DACS are not). It pushes harmful rhetoric about the "bootstraps" mentality from someone who both neither an immigrant (and neither were his parents) and who had wealthy parents. There has also been a lot of criticism from Black scholars are to their discomfort around seeing POC dressed as slaveholders dancing around to "how lucky we are to be alive right now." HAMILTON has done a lot for casting (even though there were smaller regional houses who did more decades before the age of HAMILTON), I am not going to take anything away from that. HAMILTON has a lot of very fundamental issues, not least of which is that it's basically the creator/ author/ star's (barf) self-insert historical fanfiction.
Just going to throw in that for casting of Hamilton, was marred with controversy and technically violated even Actors Equity rules.

 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
How is it a PR spectacle? Its an article just like everything else they do.
Did you know about the ex football QB NFL player Colin Kapernick who made news when he knelt when the national anthem was played? He's now part of the diversity team at TWDC to attract more people of color to visit among other things to promote more diversity at Disney.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
I wrote an article about this topic last year, and received actual d3@th thr3Ats from HAMILTON fans. I am glad that there are changes being made and that LMM, for as grating as I think he is, seems open to criticism.

I have a few friends that are in HAMILTON productions--either Broadway or the touring ones, and it means the world to them to be in that show and to play those roles. I am never going to tell them how to feel about it. Especially since in my early days of auditioning I used to be told all of the time, "this isn't THE KING AND I," and "we aren't casting for WEST SIDE STORY," I know how hard it is to be cast and be seen. As flawed as HAMILTON is, I am grateful that it HAS opened up conversations about casting--especially when talking about historical shows set in times and places that BIPOC would have absolutely existed and NOT casting them is, in fact, the revisionist history.

The New York Times has an article about changes shows are making, including Hamilton:



"At “Hamilton,” which broke ground by casting people of color to play the nation’s founders but has faced criticism for what some historians see as its misleading depiction of the title character as an abolitionist, attention during preparations for its reopening last month focused on Jefferson.

Jefferson has become an increasingly controversial figure — the New York City Council earlier this month voted to remove his statue from its chambers — and “Hamilton” director Thomas Kail said the cast and creative team concentrated its revisions on Jefferson’s big number because of “the shameful distance between the liberty he wrote about, and the life he lived as a slaveholder.”

There was another factor, too: the song contains the only moment in the show when an enslaved person is named — Hemings. “When you invoke the name of an enslaved person, you have to give some kind of respect,” said James Monroe Iglehart, who plays Jefferson.
Hemings has no lines, but is represented through dance when Jefferson, saying “Sally be a lamb,” asks her to bring him a letter from George Washington; the choreography, Mr. Kail said, is now “quite different,” with “a different tone — one that is more respectful to Sally’s point of view.”


In the prepandemic staging, Hemings would dance around Jefferson flirtatiously, performing a battement; in the new version, she still kicks her leg, but she faces away from him, arms forming a cradle as if to remind viewers of the children she bore him. “Rather than the playful, romantic energy that the previous version had, I’m now playing a person that had no claim over her own life and her own body,” said Justice Moore, who dances the Hemings role.

There are changes for the ensemble, too. Gone are the white gloves and the pantomimed motions of slaves at work as Jefferson arrives at Monticello; now some members of the ensemble stand at a distance, and don’t even join in the singing. “The gloves automatically put you in a servant place, in a minstrel show sort of place, and the more we dug deeper, the more we asked why we need that weight on the story,” said Shonica Gooden, a member of the show’s ensemble."
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Just going to throw in that for casting of Hamilton, was marred with controversy and technically violated even Actors Equity rules.

There's a lot of unpack there, but as someone who auditioned for a VERY long time, when they say "all ethnicities welcome," we've always known they only meant white. It doesn't matter how well you sing, how you act, how well you do, they've already decided this will be an all-white cast, and they've basically pre-cast the shows in their minds. The "all ethnicities welcome" and the actual auditions themselves are a dog and pony show.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Your Santa was not...

And sorry your comments are creating the division here. As an FYI Hispanics can be Black or mixed (married to one) and they also grew up with non-white Santas. That was my point. My house is a mix of a lot including Indigenous (but not of mainland NA tribes) and what some grew up seeing as Santa was never white as white Santa's didn't exist for them. It was whoever was able to portray Santa is how they looked. So again your experiences and background will shape you - that's reality. Asking to bring in another character is unnecessary since your version of Santa isn't the only one. Los Reyes Majos is big for many Latino cultures but they aren't Latinos - they were from across the ocean. They were not sought out to be of other countries, again who was there played them. This is a Puerto Rican Santa to prove my point - this person isn't white and those living on PR would never see one who is.

LKndOG4.jpg


As a Catholic my St. Nick is what I linked. I celebrate on actual St. Nick's day too.
To rephrase a bit, taking into account what you are saying, in popular culture in the United States of America (where WDW is located), the fictional Santa Clause character has historically been portrayed as an overweight white man with white hair and a white beard.

I know you think I'm trying to create division but I'm really not. I am also well aware that Hispanics can be from many races. I just don't like using "African American" to refer to Black people because most of my Black friends and acquaintances are from the Caribbean so they aren't "African" at least in the most recent place their ancestors lived.

I wouldn't want Miguel from Coco turned white for a parade. I wouldn't have an issue if they wanted to have a Santa with a different skin tone inside the appropriate Epcot pavilion. Seeing a Mexican Santa in "Mexico" would match the theming and be fine with me. Making a "generic" American Santa have a different skin color just reeks of woke pandering to me.

I'm not going to boycott Disney over it because I don't really care that much but I'm allowed to not like the move and it doesn't make me a racist because I don't like it.

BTW, I've known several Puerto Rican people who have much whiter skin than I do.
 

comics101

Well-Known Member
You know what? This thread lost me. Maybe I'm romanticizing the past, but I can remember a time when Santa's appearance didn't cause as much division as it seemingly is in this thread. Perhaps that's because I was young and wasn't aware of debates on race and politics, I don't know. I sure do miss being innocent to all this stuff, though.

What a sad, strange world we live in.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
For some (not all) marginalized people, things like this are a big deal. And since it's ultimately harmless to the rest of us, what damage is being done?
There are some in society who seek to divide us along racial and ethnic lines for the purposes of political power and monetary gain. By ginning up this resentment, they gain while we all lose. Sometimes it's hard for some to tell the difference between harmless and harmful.

This specific situation is indeed harmless, even if I think it's disingenuous from Disney's part.
 
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VJ

Well-Known Member
If a character is THE character from the movie, then character integrity states they have to look like that character.

Santa in the parks is just “Santa”, and not from a specific film, so he doesn’t have to fit a specific look.
This is why casting is more lenient when it comes to Broadway-like productions (like Frozen) in the parks - they're not meant to be the actual characters, but actors playing the characters.

I really don't think the difference is that difficult to understand unless one is intentionally missing the point.
 

PrincessNelly_NJ

Well-Known Member
You were taught to see Tiana as a petite young black woman. I gather you'd be upset if she were portrayed by a white woman.


This. 👍


At the risk of going off topic too much or being overtly political, I'm going to forego a response in this specific thread. If someone wants to pickup this specific offshoot of the conversation in the Politics subforum, I'll be happy to elaborate why I don't think the author of that article makes a very convincing point.
Well... if Tiana were white, the story wouldn't make much sense as is.
 

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