News Disney plans to include a black Santa Claus at Walt Disney World this year as the company continues its diversity and inclusion program

[VJ]

I’m surprised how many people think Tiana has to be black, it’s a story about a poor girl with a dream, every race has poor people in this exact scenario, not just black people.

Racism is a point that's (very subtly) addressed in the movie. Tiana's being Black is integral to the character.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

You were taught to see Tiana as a petite young black woman. I gather you'd be upset if she were portrayed by a white woman.

Tiana =/= Santa

It's a false equivalency right out the door, completely ignoring the differences between societies' relationships, intention, and perspective of the two.

 

[doctornick]

So characters must always be portrayed how you were taught to see them?
If we want to get technical, St. Nicholas was from modern day Turkey. He wasn't a white man.

"Modern day" being the operative words there. St. Nicholas was born what was called Asia Minor or Anatolia at the time and was certainly not Turkish (that ethnic group wasn't in the area until hundreds or years later). he was an ethnic Greek and probably looked like, well a typical Greek person today. Would you say that someone who is Greek is not "white"?

Just as Jesus wasn't white either.

I always find this statement (which I've seen a bunch, including this thread)... interesting. Most Jewish people I know have generally light skin as most are Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews tend to be darker. I have no idea what the skin color of Jesus actually was but would guess it is in the realm of "olive skin" like most people in the Mediterranean basin.

On a similar note, I remember there was a mini-outcry of "whitewashing" when Gal Godot - who is Jewish and from Israel - was cast as Cleopatra.

Basically, my point is that "white" is such a nebulous and non-specific term. People definite it arbitrarily as they desire. IMHO it seems to have become less to do about actual skin color and more about geography ("from Europe") and privilege/position of power than skin tone.

 

[britain]

Black Santa?


Eh sure. Why not? I already made a children's book with a mixed-race Kringle family. Santa was white, but the Mrs. wasn't. I can't figure out how to get Amazon to show more spreads inside. Here's a pic:

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Black Santa?


Eh sure. Why not? I already wrote a children's book with a mixed-race Kringle family. Santa was white, but the Mrs. wasn't.

LOVE.

 

[sullyinMT]

There are some in society who seek to divide us along racial and ethnic lines for the purposes of political power and monetary gain. By ginning up this resentment, they gain while we all lose. Sometimes it's hard for some to tell the difference between harmless and harmful.

This specific situation is indeed harmless, even if I think it's disingenuous from Disney's part.

Like you said, I don't think that's Disney's intent. If it comes with some major announcement from DPB or something, I'll agree that it's disingenuous. Otherwise, it's a casting of the best man for the job. And that's a good thing. If CM on social media channels are excited and getting the word out, without Disney fanfare, then let's give Disney credit for making the casting, and moving on.

Lastly, and this is a very real question. Does DLP have this problem in France? What would Europe's reaction be to "Black Santa?"

 

[Trauma]

So my question is this. Is it ok to be carrying on the Santa tradition with our children in the context that he is real?

I don’t have a problem with a black little mermaid because I can explain to my child that she is a fictional character.

Santa is different in the sense that most of us ( I think? ) at least carry on the tradition that he is real. Furthermore at least here in the states he is traditionally portrayed as white.

So even a black child meeting black Santa might have some questions. Why does Santa’s skin color change?

Now I’m sure you can create another narrative like since Santa is magic he can change his skin color, and maybe that’s fine.

I’m just wondering if it’s a great idea to be teaching children that immutable characteristics of people they perceive as real are actually mutable.

 

[doctornick]

Racism is a point that's (very subtly) addressed in the movie. Tiana's being Black is integral to the character.

Could Tiana be (say) Native American? Honest question, not sure there's a right answer.

 

[mf1972]

There's only one Santa Claus and it's this guy:
View attachment 599859

not this one?

 

[UNCgolf]

Kids in general really are colorblind.

Which isn't surprising considering race is a social construct that's likely only existed for a few hundred years and has shifted wildly during that time period.

Anyways, I can't imagine why anyone would be upset about this.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Could Tiana be (say) Native American? Honest question, not sure there's a right answer.

No.

 

[Ayla]

"Modern day" being the operative words there. St. Nicholas was born what was called Asia Minor or Anatolia at the time and was certainly not Turkish (that ethnic group wasn't in the area until hundreds or years later). he was an ethnic Greek and probably looked like, well a typical Greek person today. Would you say that someone who is Greek is not "white"?



I always find this statement (which I've seen a bunch, including this thread)... interesting. Most Jewish people I know have generally light skin as most are Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews tend to be darker. I have no idea what the skin color of Jesus actually was but would guess it is in the realm of "olive skin" like most people in the Mediterranean basin.

On a similar note, I remember there was a mini-outcry of "whitewashing" when Gal Godot - who is Jewish and from Israel - was cast as Cleopatra.

Basically, my point is that "white" is such a nebulous and non-specific term. People definite it arbitrarily as they desire. IMHO it seems to have become less to do about actual skin color and more about geography ("from Europe") and privilege/position of power than skin tone.

I'm pretty sure we're all aware how men from the Middle East look. It isn't white skin and light eyes, like Jesus is typically (incorrectly) portrayed.

 

[VJ]

My take is if they are trying to make real change and not score points with PR and press releases, just cast whoever you want (black, white, or otherwise) as Santa (or whatever other character), but don’t make a huge deal out of it. If a customer notices and asks, just say, “Well, that’s who we hired this year.”

Treating something as trivial as in-park casting decisions as something abnormal that requires major PR announcements keeps people from seeing things like this as normal, which is where I hope we are all trying to get to.

Disney hasn't said anything on the casting either way - no one's making a big deal out of it.

 

[doctornick]

I'm pretty sure we're all aware how men from the Middle East look. It isn't white skin and light eyes, like Jesus is typically (incorrectly) portrayed.

Well, Jesus was Jewish, not Arab or Persian. But more to the point, I know plenty of Middle Eastern people with a variety of skin tones and lighter eyes. Mostly, they aren't all that different looking than people from Greece or southern Italy who would be considered "white". My roommate in college is 100% Jewish ancestry and he is pasty white with freckles and blue eyes.

Edit: just to be clear, my point is that trying to pigeonhole people as a particular "race" is just an absurd practice as there are wide variations among individual ethnic groups, let along among different ethnicities in the same region.

 

[Demarke]

Disney hasn't said anything on the casting either way - no one's making a big deal out of it.

Ah, my mistake. Frankly hadn’t had time to read the articles, but seeing all the headlines, I’d assumed they had made some official pronouncement.

I wonder what sparked all the fan site articles today, or if one just put out an article saying this should happen and everyone ran with it to put out their own stories?

 

[sullyinMT]

So my question is this. Is it ok to be carrying on the Santa tradition with our children in the context that he is real?

I don’t have a problem with a black little mermaid because I can explain to my child that she is a fictional character.

Santa is different in the sense that most of us ( I think? ) at least carry on the tradition that he is real. Furthermore at least here in the states he is traditionally portrayed as white.

So even a black child meeting black Santa might have some questions. Why does Santa’s skin color change?

Now I’m sure you can create another narrative like since Santa is magic he can change his skin color, and maybe that’s fine.

I’m just wondering if it’s a great idea to be teaching children that immutable characteristics of people they perceive as real are actually mutable.

The line we used with our kids was always "The Spirit of Santa is real," or some other line to that effect. We then used that concept to get them to spread Santa's spirit via charity during a time of year that is difficult for many. They both decided on their own that he was, indeed, some form of Scott Calvin mixed with Arthur Christmas. Us taking them to visit him at the mall, and write wish list letters, etc., didn't help kill that fantasy, but we never outright said that he was coming with the reindeer. I see what you're trying to say, but it isn't difficult to separate our fictionalization of "Santa" from however we decide to treat the magic of gifts arriving at Christmas.

 

[Dear Prudence]

The Santas around where I am from have always been White, Mexican, Tonga, Filipino, and Black and no one has ever complained about it once. The only issue I see is that I told every Santa I ever encountered I wanted a dog, and none of them delivered on this.

 

[sullyinMT]

First, I was saying Latinx is not easily pronounceable in Spanish. It's awkward at best. As for Latinao, that's not what they are doing. Latinao is not meant to be turned into Latinado. It's pronounced Lah-teen-ow (as in ouch). It's a way to incorporate the a and the o at the same time to give equal importance to both or neither gender. So no Latinado as that gives a masculine connotation but Latinao. It's seemingly most preferred in Gen Z I find.

And yes, seeing yourself in a character is a big deal. I'm a weirdo mixed caucasian and I was never represented well in dolls. It's also why I bought a book in Spanish for my son about a mixed red head Latina girl. Just like him. So it's nice to see variety.

It was a joke. Not a literal change to the word or its meaning. As someone who learned Spanish by living in the Dominican Republic, it was a reference to how they might say "avergonzado" in the same pronounciation you spelled out. The "eating" of the d the same way Southern dialect is often depicted with "chopping" g's off of -ing (fixin', headin' out). I first saw the "@" as a way to terminate in a gender neutral fashion back in 2000, among Dominicans my age and younger, and find the permeation of Latin-x disgusting even as a white guy from middle America. So, late gen-X (ironically) and beyond, in my personal experience. Though, being male and thinking o first, I first incorrectly read it as "oh-ah," as in "barbacoa."

 

[Angel Ariel]

Inclusion would have been doing this with out the fanfare. Pandering is making big self promoting marketing message about something that honestly the vast majority of people would have no problem with.

This article isn't written or put out by Disney, so how is this self promotion or Disney being responsible for any "fanfare"?

 

[castlecake2.0]

This is why casting is more lenient when it comes to Broadway-like productions (like Frozen) in the parks - they're not meant to be the actual characters, but actors playing the characters.

I really don't think the difference is that difficult to understand unless one is intentionally missing the point.

Thank you. I feel people just trying to be difficult, it’s really not that hard of a concept.