News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
In my opinion there is absolute zero chance of that happening. Anything being done will be based on IP, which neither of those attractions have. Moving them would cost a fortune, and is not marketable as anything new.
Agree with CoP, but, IaSW can be more than moved, it can be upgraded as it is moved in order to:
  • have better doll animation
  • adjust problematic stereotypes and increase diversity
  • flesh out the soundtrack with better orchestration, counterpoint melodies, etc... in order to make it less monotonous
  • create a better dark ride experience in which the acoustic tile ceiling and ducts aren't so obvious, and other upgrades
  • inject it with tons and tons of IP, e.g., the full Casita in South America
  • make the ride fit thematically with the park it's in
  • create better access to the expansion pad north of Haunted Mansion
Here, just give me a few billion and I'll get it done. You'll love it!
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
The market is irrationally obsessed with the streaming business. It's all they care about. To them, this is a distraction from the "important" stuff.
Yes, indeed.

But, I'll also add that they're as much obsessed with dividends. The most blue-chippiest entertainment stock isn't giving out dividends. The heresy!!

When streaming stops having a net loss in 2024, then both these issues will be resolved. Wall Street will stop obsessing over Disney's streaming. And Disney will have the money to pay dividends.

In fact, I read this intention to double investments as Disney basically saying that their financial analysis is ensuring them that the streaming losses is definitely coming to an end, which would then free up the spigot for parks (and dividends).
 

fgmnt

Well-Known Member
Agree with CoP, but, IaSW can be more than moved, it can be upgraded as it is moved in order to:
  • have better doll animation
  • adjust problematic stereotypes and increase diversity
  • flesh out the soundtrack with better orchestration, counterpoint melodies, etc... in order to make it less monotonous
  • create a better dark ride experience in which the acoustic tile ceiling and ducts aren't so obvious, and other upgrades
  • inject it with tons and tons of IP, e.g., the full Casita in South America
  • make the ride fit thematically with the park it's in
  • create better access to the expansion pad north of Haunted Mansion
Here, just give me a few billion and I'll get it done. You'll love it!
Not for nothing but I wonder how close the WDW IASW has been to the chopping block. It’s not the World’s Fair version, right?
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Amazing news, hopefully it actually happens.

The Studio Park in Paris is in the middle of a massive expansion and their Downtown Disney area is being completely redone so DLP is probably accounting for $10 billion.

DCL has 3 ships on order and it’s possible they’ll start the replacement ships for the Magic and Wonder over the next decade so that’s probably another $10 billion.

HKDL is in the final steps of a major expansion so I doubt they’ll see a massive investment, maybe a $billion or 2 on new rides to maintain attendance.

Shanghai is unlikely to see major spending either with their current economic uncertainty, maybe a $billion or 2 on new rides to maintain attendance.

Even rounding up for simplicity that’s only about $25 billion spent on the ships and overseas, that’s leaves $35 billion for the domestic parks.

That’s enough for a new land in every domestic park.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Those skeptical of Disney spending $60B in capex over 10 years across all parks and cruiselines, I have a question for you:

Would it be more believable if they announced $30B?

Or would such a figure also invite scoffs of skepticism and lots of "I'll believe it when I see it!"

Because... that's what Disney spent in capex in the previous 10 years.

And in the past 10 years, Disney profits have been rising. And parks and cruise lines have increasingly larger Rates of Investment. Which makes them good things to invest in.

So... why is $60B so unbelievable?
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
The market is irrationally obsessed with the streaming business. It's all they care about. To them, this is a distraction from the "important" stuff.

Sacrilege here I know... but maybe 60 billion is too much to invest?

If they are bumping up their investment 30%, are they expecting to increase revenue similarly? If so... how?

Eisner tried this in the 1990s and I don't think it worked.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
When we had our discussion about $17B going to WDW over the next 10 year, I stated and want to remind everyone that capex for parks isn't always about a brand new ride. It's also for rethemes and upgrades of existing rides that are falling out of favor or falling apart. It's also for infrastructure like for the revamped entrances to all the parks and the Skyliner. And hotels.

Temper expectations of $17B worth of brand new rides and lands. There will be some, but not a full $17B worth.
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
Not for nothing but I wonder how close the WDW IASW has been to the chopping block. It’s not the World’s Fair version, right?

The Worlds Fair version is at Disneyland in CA

I've never heard any rumors of it being on the chopping block. It is complete, and has very high thruput (hourly capacity of 3,000 - more than Pirates, double that of Big Thunder, etc.) and while it doesn't carry a huge line usually gets decent traction and lots of people feel it is a "must do" for their trips

They've also made recent updates (adding the character in a wheel chair, just some refurbishment to some characters) ... just don't think that would be likely

but you never know
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Original Poster
When we had our discussion about $17B going to WDW over the next 10 year, I stated and want to remind everyone that capex for parks isn't always about a brand new ride. It's also for rethemes and upgrades of existing rides that are falling out of favor or falling apart. It's also for infrastructure like for the revamped entrances to all the parks and the Skyliner. And hotels.

Temper expectations of $17B worth of brand new rides and lands. There will be some, but not a full $17B worth.
They're doubling their level of investment. They're not doubling the amount of times they're going to need to repave World Drive or replace the bollards in the Epcot parking lot. Doubling their investment means lots of new goodies, it just has to.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
What would be your ideal level of investment into WDW in 10 years beyond normal operating costs? 1 new land a year? 1 new land every other year? 2 per year? 1 hotel every 3? Transportation upgrades once a decade? 1 ride update per year?

Just curious.
I’ll play….

1. 1-2 new rides every other year. This can sometimes be a replacement but should mostly be new/additional builds.

2. A new land or at least a bunch of rides (3+) every other year. This is the “big splash” stuff

3. A new large show or parade every other year.

4. Regular changing out of shows, films, etc every 5 years or so (maybe 8 years at the longest)

This is roughly would I would expect to do. Every year should have “something” new and at least every other year should be something quite large. And stuff doesn’t have to be one individual park each year but if it is on average then each park would get something new at least every 4 years or so at minimum.

There should be walls up somewhere pretty much always. Constant state of improvement. If you are always building stuff, you won’t run into the “people holding off on vacations to see the new thing” concept because there is always something new.

I actually don’t think the last 10 years or so we’re off much from what I’m suggesting though it has been too much “replacement” and not enough “additions”
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Those skeptical of Disney spending $60B in capex over 10 years across all parks and cruiselines, I have a question for you:

Would it be more believable if they announced $30B?

Or would such a figure also invite scoffs of skepticism and lots of "I'll believe it when I see it!"

Because... that's what Disney spent in capex in the previous 10 years.

And in the past 10 years, Disney profits have been rising. And parks and cruise lines have increasingly larger Rates of Investment. Which makes them good things to invest in.

So... why is $60B so unbelievable?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with TWDC saying the are "planning" to spend whatever. Hopefully just saying it will help the stock price.

Its the actual doing it (for me specifically in WDW) that I question.

They talk about project for years before putting a shovel in the ground.

The can actually start a project then simply cancel it, look at the Play pavilion.

They did real work on that just to cancel it.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
They're doubling their level of investment. They're not doubling the amount of times they're going to need to repave World Drive or replace the bollards in the Epcot parking lot. Doubling their investment means lots of new goodies, it just has to.

…if they end up spending this money and not backing out of the plan.
 

MR.Dis

Well-Known Member
Comments and issues. First the new cruise island Lighthouse Point is almost complete and mostly budgeted/paid for so most likely not included in the new spending. Same can be said of the Treasure and the Singapore Cruise ship. Only the last cruise ship has most likely not yet been paid for. As for investment in WDW, I have been commenting for years that WDW does not need a new gate but to complete the gates they have. Even the 3 latest lands are a disappointment in the number of new rides, Star Wars with 2 when it was supposed to have 4 new rides and the same can be said of Pandora, Toy Story Land is short 1 ride. So I am all for adding to the existing parks, but please do not go on the cheap and again short change the additions. And just to be clear, they do not all have to be E ticket rides, lots of kiddies have just as much enjoyment in a simple spinner.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Since the free-to-share gift link sometimes doesn't work for non-domestic folks, here's the full article of...


By Brooks Barnes​
Reporting from Lake Buena Vista, Fla.​
Sept. 19, 2023, 9:02 a.m. ET​
Disney’s theme parks will generate an estimated $10 billion in profit this year, up from $2.2 billion a decade ago. Not bad for a 68-year-old business, especially considering the devastation wrought by the pandemic just a couple of years ago.​
But how much boom is left?​
Last month, when Robert A. Iger, Disney’s chief executive officer, singled out the parks division as “a key growth engine” on an earnings-related conference call, Wall Street furrowed its brow. Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif., has long been viewed as maxed out, with little room to expand. Walt Disney World near Orlando, Fla., has become a question mark, given that Mr. Iger has said the company’s legal battle with Florida’s governor, Ron DeSantis, could imperil $17 billion in planned expansion at the resort over the next decade. Disney’s overseas parks — aside from Tokyo Disney Resort, which it receives royalties from but does not own — have sometimes struggled to turn a profit.​
On Tuesday, Disney offered a clearer picture of the opportunity it sees, which can only be described as colossal: The company disclosed in a security filing that it planned to spend roughly $60 billion over the next decade to expand its domestic and international parks and to continue building Disney Cruise Line. That amount is double what Disney spent on parks and the cruise line over the past decade, which was itself a period of greatly increased investment.​
In the past decade, Disney has opened the Shanghai Disney Resort, more than doubled its cruise line capacity and added rides based on intellectual properties like “Star Wars,” “Guardians of the Galaxy,” “Tron,” Spider-Man, “Avatar” and “Toy Story” to its domestic parks. Disney has also poured money into its Paris and Hong Kong parks, with themed expansions tied to “Frozen” and other Disney films scheduled to open soon. Three more ocean liners are on the way, bringing the Disney fleet to eight ships, and Disney is nearing completion of a new port on a Bahamian island. (Disney already has one private island port.)​
If that is what $30 billion can buy, imagine what $60 billion might bring.​
“There are far fewer limits to our parks business than people think,” Mr. Iger said in an email.​
“The growth trajectory is very compelling if we do nothing beyond what we have already committed,” he continued, referring to attractions and ships that have been announced but are not yet operational. “By dramatically increasing our investment — building big, being ambitious, maintaining quality and high standards and using our most popular I.P. — it will be turbocharged.”​
Disney is expanding the investment after a stretch of trouble in almost all its divisions. Cable television, including ESPN, has become a shadow of its former self, the result of cord cutting, advertising weakness and rising sports programming costs. Disney had a disappointing summer at the box office, with movies like “Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny” and “Haunted Mansion” selling sharply fewer tickets than anticipated. The company’s Disney+ streaming service continues to lose money; Mr. Iger has said it will be profitable by fall 2024, but some investors are skeptical.​
Disney shares closed on Monday at $85. Their price was $197 in 2021.​
In contrast, Disney’s parks and cruise business has been a bright spot, in many ways propping up the whole company. In the most recent quarter, Disney Parks, Experiences and Products generated $2.4 billion in operating income, an 11 percent increase from a year earlier. Disney Media and Entertainment Distribution had $1.1 billion in operating profit, an 18 percent decline.​
Spending per guest at Disney parks has increased 42 percent since 2019, in part because of higher prices for tickets, food, merchandise and hotel rooms.​
“The stock is cheap given how good the parks are,” Michael Nathanson, an analyst at SVB MoffettNathanson, said on Monday, before the expansion was announced.​
Still, increased investment in theme parks brings increased risk. It is a business that will always be sensitive to factors beyond Disney’s control: swings in the economy, gas prices, hurricanes, earthquakes, tension between the United States and China. Disney has greatly increased security, deploying undercover guards and installing metal detectors, but these teeming resorts — Disney parks attracted an estimated 121 million visitors last year — could become ghost towns if a violent event took place.​
Josh D’Amaro, chairman of Disney Parks, Experiences and Products, said people who focused on such risks overlooked the resilience of theme park fans. He noted that customers had come flooding back when Disney parks reopened during the pandemic.​
“Every time there has been a moment of crisis or concern, we have managed to bounce back faster than anyone expected,” he said.​
Mr. D’Amaro declined to specify how the company planned to spend the $60 billion. But he gave hints, noting that Disney movies like “Coco,” “Zootopia,” “Encanto” and others had not yet been incorporated into the company’s parks in meaningful ways.​
“Imagine bringing Wakanda to life,” he said, referring to the fictional “Black Panther” kingdom. “In terms of bringing the latest Disney-Marvel-Pixar intellectual property to the parks, we haven’t come close to scratching the surface. And we have learned that incorporating Disney I.P. increases the return on investment significantly.”​
Disney owns 1,000 undeveloped acres across its existing theme park resorts, Mr. D’Amaro noted. (For comparison, he said, that’s the size of seven Disneylands.) One of the biggest areas of opportunity, he said, involves the original Disneyland, which opened in 1955. If the company can persuade the City of Anaheim to change a plan, adopted in the 1990s, that limits where hotels, parking lots and attractions can be built, Disney intends to redevelop land adjacent to Disneyland, greatly expanding capacity. Disney also plans to turn a parking area south of the park into a themed shopping, dining and hotel district.​
Disney released a 17,000-page environmental impact study for the project last week. The Anaheim City Council is expected to vote on the changes in mid- to late 2024.​
How much Disney invests in Florida may depend on the courts, where the company is battling Mr. DeSantis and his allies for control over Disney World’s growth plan. Angered over Disney’s criticism of a Florida education law, Mr. DeSantis in April ended the company’s long-held ability to self-govern its 25,000-acre resort as if it were a county. Disney maintains that prior contracts preserve its ability to control development, however.​
“We want to keep growing and investing and have ambitious plans in Florida,” Mr. D’Amaro said. “For the benefit of our guests, our cast members and the economy of central Florida, we hope the conditions will be there for us to do so.” He declined to comment further.​
At the moment, Disney does not plan to build parks in new countries or cities. (In the past, the company looked at building a park in India, for instance, and expanding beyond Hong Kong and Shanghai in China.) Rather, the company will focus on developing new ports for its ships.​
Starting in 2025, a new cruise ship — the biggest in Disney’s fleet so far, with space for more than 6,000 guests — will be based in Singapore. Disney’s ships have grown increasingly themed, with characters and artwork from franchises like “Frozen,” “Star Wars” and Marvel’s Avengers incorporated into restaurants and entertainment zones.​
“It’s like bringing a theme park to a new part of the world,” Mr. D’Amaro said of Disney Cruise Line, which has recently been booked to 98 percent of capacity.​
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
At the moment, Disney does not plan to build parks in new countries or cities. (In the past, the company looked at building a park in India, for instance, and expanding beyond Hong Kong and Shanghai in China.) Rather, the company will focus on developing new ports for its ships.

Please note...

No 5th Gate.​
Disneyland forward is not creating a 3rd gate.​
Parks with only one park are not creating a 2nd gate.​
No new Disneylands elsewhere in the world.​
For now.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Original Poster
What would be your ideal level of investment into WDW in 10 years beyond normal operating costs? 1 new land a year? 1 new land every other year? 2 per year? 1 hotel every 3? Transportation upgrades once a decade? 1 ride update per year?

Just curious.
I don't really want Walt Disney World to expand, per se. There's already enough to do where I'm fully entertained for the 8 nights at a time I visit. I know I'm in the minority, but I want replacements and upgrades, not new builds.
 

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