News Disney plans to accelerate Parks investment to $60 billion over 10 years

[MrPromey]

Including the rides, how we don't see a lightsaber battle is beyond me...

Batuu as a location is fine... but there's no "Star Wars" happening at all. It's all behind closed doors in retail/dining locations or after a 2 hour wait.

... or part of an up-charge experience.

Or separated out entirely and made into something expensive and exclusive and not even available to regular park goers.

 

[JD80]

And you and others defend Disney to the death

No one is dying here.

 

[BrianLo]

The issue isn’t skepticism, it’s the blatant contradictions.

We’re posting on the news and rumors part of one of many places on the internet dedicated to discussing what might be happening at theme parks. As lame as the Blue Sky announcements were they’re also the sort of things fans constantly say they want to see. It’s also exactly what a lot of people in this thread have been complaining about not getting. Disney being more specific about a ten year plan would involve announcing a lot of underdeveloped concepts.

A lot of people complaining also think the company would benefit from board members who would advocate for more things like DVC over attractions.

Future events are also kind of ridiculous. New leadership changing course is right in line with what is supposedly desired because many say any change away from Iger is good. An economic downturn would reasonably change things and they’d change things at Universal too despite people pretending otherwise.

Preach!

The disgruntled contrarians are completely out of control. I know the forums needed a good pixie dusting cleansing a decade ago, but this current version is near unrecognizable.

I expected literally nothing out of D23. I knew that imagineering was demolished. Cruising was not back. Parks were seen as risky ventures that could be closed at any moment. The company had pivoted to streaming.

So a misunderstood Blue Sky session was unexpected, a tad confusing, but also refreshing. Because it at least made some suggestion there was an appetite and that has manifested more to where we are today.

Just as Disneyland Forward was fluffy at best, there is supposed financial commitments. So these focus groups were not useless because I learned things. Two of which were ways Disney themselves were thinking of expanding (Magic Kingdom and Disneyland) for which we really did not foresee. And then disappointingly depending on your perspective the smattering of IP’s they are most interested in pursuing. There is value in that and these things were not simply empty.

I enjoy the Blue Sky when it’s labeled as such - and they did label these as such.

 

[Horizonsfan]

But we do not know exactly what fraction of the $17B will go directedly to building stuff in the parks. vs other things like resorts vs how much is for technology or maintenance.

This is what I was trying to get at in my initial post. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to hypothesize the $17B breaks down somewhat similarly to the macro amount of $60B. Especially given the gargantuan size of WDW vs the other resorts.

OTOH, expecting ~$2B annually in expansions & overhauls over the next 8ish years seems like a recipe for disappointment.

 

[BrianLo]

Yeah, definitely not trying to be being pessimistic, just realistic. Don't want to set up yourself for disappointment if you expect 17 new lands on the scale of Star Wars land lol
I'm more confident in the Disney Parks than I was 2-3 years ago, but I also don't expect mega expansions at every park.

I’m expecting about 50% more. If it sticks of course. The other 50% is eroded away in inflation and spending run up.

So if we can point to 4 “major projects” in the prior 10 years (Pandora, Galaxy’s Edge, Toy Story/MMRR/Skyliner/DHS, Epcot), then I’m expecting we’ll get six.

And I’m purposefully downplaying that there were a lot of other things beyond this, not to mention Disney Springs. Those things may still come in a 150% manner.

But six major parks projects is a baseline to not be disappointed. Unless they don’t actually spend the money they say they are going to, then all bets are off.

 

[Jrb1979]

Preach!

The disgruntled contrarians are completely out of control. I know the forums needed a good pixie dusting cleansing a decade ago, but this current version is near unrecognizable.

I expected literally nothing out of D23. I knew that imagineering was demolished. Cruising was not back. Parks were seen as risky ventures that could be closed at any moment. The company had pivoted to streaming.

So a misunderstood Blue Sky session was unexpected, a tad confusing, but also refreshing. Because it at least made some suggestion there was an appetite and that has manifested more to where we are today.

Just as Disneyland Forward was fluffy at best, there is supposed financial commitments. So these focus groups were not useless because I learned things. Two of which were ways Disney themselves were thinking of expanding (Magic Kingdom and Disneyland) for which we really did not foresee. And then disappointingly depending on your perspective the smattering of IP’s they are most interested in pursuing. There is value in that and these things were not simply empty.

I enjoy the Blue Sky when it’s labeled as such - and they did label these as such.

I still prefer they don't say anything about new projects. Everytime they go on about these blue sky things it never ends up as what was planned.
Don't announce anything til shovels are in the ground and it's past the planning stage.

 

[doctornick]

As an aside, I wonder about some of this money specifically going towards new transportation for WDW. Most specifically, we've had some people say they were looking at something different to connect AKL/DAK with the rest of the WDW (I'm guessing Light Rail or some sort, but haven't seen anyone really hint to something specific).

Also, perhaps they might be looking at stuff like replacing the Monorail fleet.

 

[BrianLo]

I still prefer they don't say anything about new projects. Everytime they go on about these blue sky things it never ends up as what was planned.
Don't announce anything til shovels are in the ground and it's past the planning stage.

I get that perspective, but it works when there is optimism in the fan community and things are already underway.

If Disney was saying nothing, the read would be they’ve completely turned against parks and no investment is ever forthcoming with current leadership. They have to state some intention of direction.

The actual D23 presentation of note seemed like a move Josh made because he was either pitching then CEO Chapek or had the wherewithal to know he wasn’t going to survive his first keynote in the fan community by saying they literally weren’t going to do anything.

Disney is inherently structured differently than Universal, which doesn’t hold fan events or keynotes. I personally like the fan facing presentations than just a corporate announcement slate. I also have realistic expectations of these events.

 

[MrPromey]

That seems to happen a lot more than it used to. IMO cause they over promise and under deliver. They need to stop with the concept art phase for announcements and follow what Universal and regional parks. Don't announce what the project is til construction is well underway.

People are speculating (and probably right) that they're holding back details for D23.

Why is that?

They've monetized the announcement process. They started charging big bucks to people to be there live for park announcements. In recent years, without anything new to announce, they've still sold that space as a place for people to expect those announcements but started filling them with pieces of concept art and talk of what would be cool instead of what they're actually doing.

It's like... Imagine Apple charging the general public to attend a major Apple event instead of it being a press thing and then instead of unveiling the VisionPro and letting people into a room where they can try out nearly-complete prototypes, they instead just show concept art for the Apple Car and say "wouldn't it be cool if we made this?" and then next year, they do the same setup where people are expecting to maybe see an Apple Car for real and maybe even be able to sit inside one but instead, now they're onto concept art for the Apple Toilet and are like "wouldn't it be cool if we made this?"

Point is, the slow pace they've been developing at has caused them to have to announce at earlier and earlier stages to have something to talk about at these paid events and they've gone so far with doing this that a couple years ago, they ran completely out of runway and had to start announcing things that weren't even in development and that weren't even approved projects to start development on because there wasn't anything new of significance planned, even for the distant future at that point.

They were, in effect, announcing the Apple toilet - a product nobody was actually working on, vaporware, BS.

The fact they did this two years in a row, is proof of how dead development really has been.

People had bought tickets, though. The show had to go on. Josh had to have something to act excited about on stage and a new cupcake wasn't going to cut it...

Disney used to do things a lot more like the way Universal does and a big chunk of what this site originally covered was the leaks and speculation and photos submitted by members visiting parks and taking pictures of construction through seams in construction walls and speculation over exactly what we'd be getting.

How much things have changed.

Anyway, things seldom end up as amazing as people imagine them to be. I'm sure there will be parts of Epic Universe that are letdowns. Some may even be huge letdowns - that's just the way it goes.

But with Disney, it's a combination of early artwork and promises that will be scaled back by the time they actually build it, if they actually build it, combined with giving people years to dream and speculate and exaggerate in their minds what is coming based off that artwork that was never going to be the final product to begin with, making it bigger and bigger in their imaginations while the actual scope of the project is moving in the opposite direction due to internal politics, budget cuts and in some cases, a hard realistic look at what Ops is capable of maintaining reliably after they already sold the public on what they at one point, imagined it could be.

They do it to themselves to make a quick buck and they deserve all the resentment, pessimism, and skepticism they get because frankly, management has earned that level of distrust from their fan-base that they've consistently hoodwinked over the last decade+, now.

 

[BrianLo]

As an aside, I wonder about some of this money specifically going towards new transportation for WDW. Most specifically, we've had some people say they were looking at something different to connect AKL/DAK with the rest of the WDW (I'm guessing Light Rail or some sort, but haven't seen anyone really hint to something specific).

Also, perhaps they might be looking at stuff like replacing the Monorail fleet.

I think it’s quite likely. Transportation meaningfully improves what they can charge for connected resorts and they can option it into a DVC build.

Timing wise though they have about 4 years worth of WDW DVC inventory at current sales (including the forthcoming Poly Tower). Though they don’t seem to recently be against having multiple products. They’ll need something new though in 2026/7 unless they want to restructure back to only one WDW property for sale. The strong bugaboo is that will be a River Country (Reflections Lodge) Revival. That kind of puts them back into one resort since it will be tacked onto the Cabins Association and Poly will sell through at some point.

Which, River Country, is in the wrong place for the type of transport you are thinking. So only after that could I see the new transport. My very long way of saying it will still be a number of years for the transport, likely 2031-32 if DVC is going to be a keystone.

 

[peter11435]

And you and others defend Disney to the death

No. I am very critical of Disney in certain situations and when warranted. Not being unnecessarily negative all of the time does not mean defending to the death.

 

[rd805]

At this point, Disney may be waiting until D23 to announce anything major plan-wise; but part of me is also thinking they do realistically START any projects for a while. They may be riding the incoming wave to EPIC, and are hoping to catch high attendance draws simply on the fact that people will want to go to Orlando. They when that rush dies down (slightly), start with the new attractions. This puts us out to 2026...

 

[MisterPenguin]

As I mentioned above:

All this talk of $17B here and $60B there isn't to frustrate park fans by then holding back in secret what they're going to do specifically. It's aimed at investors in the proxy battle.

Disney right now is completely unconcerned that their park fans don't have a blueprint of what's going to be built.

People who think that they deserve that blueprint are either rather confused about how businesses operate, or, they're using this to score points against TWDC by ginning up the lack of information as a slap in the face of fans.

Y'all know that Universal didn't confirm most of what was being built in EU until a month or two ago, right? Even though we could see it. Universal felt absolutely no obligation to reveal details to its park fans. Welcome to reality.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Could you imagine if Disney replaced two attractions with one small roller coaster?

It's being value-engineered!!!!

 

[Jrb1979]

As I mentioned above:

All this talk of $17B here and $60B there isn't to frustrate park fans by then holding back in secret what they're going to do specifically. It's aimed at investors in the proxy battle.

Disney right now is completely unconcerned that their park fans don't have a blueprint of what's going to be built.

People who think that they deserve that blueprint are either rather confused about how businesses operate, or, they're using this to score points against TWDC by ginning up the lack of information as a slap in the face of fans.

Y'all know that Universal didn't confirm most of what was being built in EU until a month or two ago, right? Even though we could see it. Universal felt absolutely no obligation to reveal details to its park fans. Welcome to reality.

Tell that to Disney then. Cause that's how they should do it. Stop with the Blue Sky junk.

 

[MrPromey]

How many more times will they reiterate that they’re going to do this before they actually…do something?

They've been pointing to the grandstands behind the outfield with their bat for a year now. It's like "We get it - hit the damn ball already!"

It's feeling a lot like Casey at the Bat which is why we're more and more starting to expect that outcome.

We may not be the intended audience for these speculative announcements but it's not like they don't know the kids are in the room while the grownups are trying to BS each other in power-plays.

 

[John park hopper]

Disney talks the big play ---then bunts or strikes out

 

[MrPromey]

Why, they went out of their way to abandon a whole second ride in the land. It's what guests want!

But did they sell tickets to an event where they announced that second ride and showed off concept art for it?

Did they even announce it at all?

Or are you trying to compare something they never publicly talked about and never promised to something like the theater on Main Street or the Play pavilion or the Mary Poppins attraction or...?

Maybe they did announce it and I'm wrong. If so, point to where and I'll admit the error in my thinking, here.

 

[MrPromey]

Could you imagine if Disney replaced two attractions with one small roller coaster?

Would it be better than closing them and just leaving the spaces vacant for a decade or more in parks that don't have enough attraction capacity to handle the guests they've got?

... because that seems to be more Disney's speed these days.

 

[peter11435]

But did they sell tickets to an event where they announced that second ride and showed off concept art for it?

Did they even announce it at all?

Or are you trying to compare something they never publicly talked about and never promised to something like the theater on Main Street or the Play pavilion or the Mary Poppins attraction or...?

Maybe they did announce it and I'm wrong. If so, point to where and I'll admit the error in my thinking, here.

In the grand scheme of things, there have not been that many things announced at D23 and then cancelled. I can think of the theater, poppins, play pavilion, and reflections. Three of those 4 were Covid related and would exist today if not for a global pandemic. And the theater was cancelled for a number of reasons.

Most of this board complained endlessly about reflections and would have been relentless with their dislike for poppins.