News Disney offers to pay union members at least $15 by 2021

[Lensman]

Not sure which airline you're talking about, but the one with which I'm familiar has two levels of "on-call," and neither one allows "the option to respond" -- if they call, and you don't respond...

Oops, apologies! For my airline reference, I meant option to accept, not option to respond. To be specific, if you're a reserve pilot you will get awards or assignments and some of them you have to accept but some of them you can turn down (proffers).

Also, it was probably confusing but my overtime reference was not airline related but related to on-call work for some of my co-workers where they get paid for time spent on-call, even if they aren't called.

 

[RETLAW]

I was going to make a comment about the Topic, but I am not so sure that this is what this forum is about anymore. Are we still talking about Disney pay offer to the CM Union? or are we talking about branding, Scheduling, airlines, and the difference between tangibles and intangibles?

 

[Lensman]

I was going to make a comment about the Topic, but I am not so sure that this is what this forum is about anymore. Are we still talking about Disney pay offer to the CM Union? or are we talking about branding, Scheduling, airlines, and the difference between tangibles and intangibles?

It's true and the lack of a threaded view option combined with the raising of tangential threads causes a lot of side conversations. I take it you're suggesting that the spectre of purely mandatory on-call reserve cast members is tangential to the $15 starting pay for unionized cast members? In retrospect, I think I agree.

OTOH, we're only up to page 12 and I suspect the thread is going to die out soon for a while until resurrected because there's just not enough of a bike shed here (not many different ideas about how to solve this problem) and it doesn't affect as many people personally as does the lack of A/C on the upcoming gondolas, the introduction of IP into Epcot, or the imposition of overnight parking fees.

 

[ford91exploder]

I am probably being over-optimistic but maybe it'll be like some places where you either get some remuneration for your time "on call" or it'll be like airline crews where you have the option to respond - with the incentive being overtime for responders.

Unfortunately not ‘ON CALL’ staffing is where the employee has to call in generally 1 hour before their shift begins to see if they are required to work that day. It generally also requires that they monitor their phones at all times to see if they are required to work. It also means that they can be sent home at any time. So if the employer only needs 2 hours from an employee they only get 2 hours.

Since companies with big data now have nearly perfect data on customer demand on call staffing is a response to having the right size workforce at any time.

That said it’s inhumane and many municipalities are passing laws which mandate workers get at least X hours pay if they are called in.

With all the computer based scheduling at WDW I expect to see this ‘innovative staffing model’ making a appearance at WDW sooner than later

 

[gsimpson]

Not surprised you are finding it difficult.

Let me slow it down for you.

Automation saves money. Period. Full stop.

The fractional increases CMs are asking for have no impact long term on automation. An employee making $12 and hour with all associated costs and an employee making $15 are the same when it comes to automating.

You know how I know this?????

Because it is already happening.

Jobs won’t disappear any faster then they already are.

Your statement has no basis in reality whatsoever. From a personal perspective I have relatives who are fast food franchisees with full and ready access to both the technology and corporate financing to put in automation in every one of their stores. In states with high min wages they are all in for automated ordering/payment kiosks, automated drink filling, and in some cases fully automated fry cooking but where they are only paying 8 or 9 an hour to start the cost of installing and maintaining those kiosks and other gear are greater than the costs for the employees they would replace. If my relatively unsophisticated relatives can figure out where the break even point is I bet Disney can too. In rare cases automation in employed for the novelty. For example, the Oasis class cruise ships have robot bar tenders in a single bar, thus proving the technology exist. Using your rational they should have gotten rid of all bartenders forth with and put in more robots. Of course since the robots are expensive and bartenders are cheap they only put in enough to take advantage of the novelty.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Unfortunately not ‘ON CALL’ staffing is where the employee has to call in generally 1 hour before their shift begins to see if they are required to work that day. It generally also requires that they monitor their phones at all times to see if they are required to work. It also means that they can be sent home at any time. So if the employer only needs 2 hours from an employee they only get 2 hours.

Since companies with big data now have nearly perfect data on customer demand on call staffing is a response to having the right size workforce at any time.

That said it’s inhumane and many municipalities are passing laws which mandate workers get at least X hours pay if they are called in.

With all the computer based scheduling at WDW I expect to see this ‘innovative staffing model’ making a appearance at WDW sooner than later

The Cast Deployment System which is now ubiquitous across WDW was a very early version of this. Previously the cast themselves would manage rotations, breaks, lunches and out times. This was all overseen by a lead. Now CDS does this and was one of the first truly big dings to cast morale. No longer did you feel empowered, you felt a computer was controlling you. It saved Disney money because there were some significantly overstaffed days which resulted in extra breaks and lots of downtime. No longer with CDS. CMs are assigned menial tasks, chores and other random duties. Feeling ill or want to leave early? Put it in the system.

With the CDS rollout they also cutback on cast rotations. Too much time was being spent moving people between jobs. Prior to this system the longest an attractions CM would stay in one position was 35 minutes before being “bumped” to another position. This kept people fresh, alert and awake. Now people can spend upwards of an hour in one role which can be problematic in high-stress safety critical roles.

 

[xdan0920]

Your statement has no basis in reality whatsoever. From a personal perspective I have relatives who are fast food franchisees with full and ready access to both the technology and corporate financing to put in automation in every one of their stores. In states with high min wages they are all in for automated ordering/payment kiosks, automated drink filling, and in some cases fully automated fry cooking but where they are only paying 8 or 9 an hour to start the cost of installing and maintaining those kiosks and other gear are greater than the costs for the employees they would replace. If my relatively unsophisticated relatives can figure out where the break even point is I bet Disney can too. In rare cases automation in employed for the novelty. For example, the Oasis class cruise ships have robot bar tenders in a single bar, thus proving the technology exist. Using your rational they should have gotten rid of all bartenders forth with and put in more robots. Of course since the robots are expensive and bartenders are cheap they only put in enough to take advantage of the novelty.

Good post. Copy and paste it to a fast food forum. It has zip to do with WDW.

 

[Lensman]

Good post. Copy and paste it to a fast food forum. It has zip to do with WDW.

Wouldn't it directly apply to quick service locations?

Also, it does demonstrate something of how such cost-benefit analyses of specific automation decisions are made and how marginal the business cases for them sometimes are.

I suspect a bigger problem is the shortage of available labor. That could end up motivating additional automation projects.

 

[xdan0920]

Wouldn't it directly apply to quick service locations?

Also, it does demonstrate something of how such cost-benefit analyses of specific automation decisions are made and how marginal the business cases for them sometimes are.

I suspect a bigger problem is the shortage of available labor. That could end up motivating additional automation projects.

No, it doesn't apply to QSR locations. FWIW, anyone with a HS education understands the basic economics in play here. And TDO already has it sorted, and they are automating, so guess what? The numbers make sense for them. The only thing holding them up is efficiency.

Disney is already automating. They are doing it wherever and whenever they can. In whatever situation they think they can get away with it.

The idea that tamping down wages will stop automation is an idea based in, and I hate to be this guy, wall street BS. It is in a companies best interest to keep the low man low. So, using automation as the anvil being held over their heads is a common, and IMO crappy strategy.

Anyhoo, I am done discussing this topic. You guys want to buy into the threat that paying employees a few more dollars an hour is going to lead to Skynet, be my guest. (get it?)

 

[Lensman]

No, it doesn't apply to QSR locations. FWIW, anyone with a HS education understands the basic economics in play here. And TDO already has it sorted, and they are automating, so guess what? The numbers make sense for them. The only thing holding them up is efficiency.

In what way doesn't it apply to QSR locations? I would have thought that there's be the same economics to whether you'd invest in an automatic french fry machine?

Disney is already automating. They are doing it wherever and whenever they can. In whatever situation they think they can get away with it.

How would you define "wherever and whenever they can" and "whatever situation they think they can get away with it"?

I would have thought they'd have some horrible bean counters doing cost-benefit analyses and evaluating business cases? Do you think they have some other process for deciding which automation projects to invest in?

The idea that tamping down wages will stop automation is an idea based in, and I hate to be this guy, wall street BS. It is in a companies best interest to keep the low man low. So, using automation as the anvil being held over their heads is a common, and IMO crappy strategy.

For the record, I don't think that tamping down wages will stop automation. I also don't think that Disney is holding automation over the heads of the union cast members who might vote for higher starting pay.

Anyhoo, I am done discussing this topic. You guys want to buy into the threat that paying employees a few more dollars an hour is going to lead to Skynet, be my guest. (get it?)

I honestly don't think that raising the starting pay of unionized cast members to $15 will significantly reduce the amount of automation being brought to the parks. It might have some small effect on the margin but I think there are larger forces at play in Disney Parks' automation planning. I suspect that the whole discussion of automation in this thread is really just some dialectical response to some overgeneralization that someone decided to spew into the discussion some number of pages back.

In my experience, large scale automation projects are so expensive and risky and there's typically so much inertia against change in large companies that projects designed purely to save money are very hard to bring through the approval process. There has to be some benefit in terms of some other KPI like improvement in quality, safety, service time, guest approval, incremental sales, or some marketing benefit. You know, something that could result in the ability to raise prices further.

 

[21stamps]

I honestly don't think that raising the starting pay of unionized cast members to $15 will significantly reduce the amount of automation being brought to the parks.

I had to quote this segment because it’s not “$15 starting pay” only. It’s raises across the board. I don’t know enough about the exact numbers of employees/dollars...but I think they would be shocking to see.

A lot of people take a very emotional view on these subjects, claiming “you’re against the little guy!” Or “you’re heartless if you don’t want to see a $15 starting wage!”
When really, it’s just people looking at the bigger picture and knowing that there will be some consequence to that kind of increase.

Will it be loss of jobs, higher prices, other cutbacks? We don’t know for sure. We do know that a company is not just going to eat that kind of millions of dollars increase in payroll.

 

[xdan0920]

A lot of people take a very emotional view on these subjects, claiming “you’re against the little guy!” Or “you’re heartless if you don’t want to see a $15 starting wage!”
When really, it’s just people looking at the bigger picture and knowing that there will be some consequence to that kind of increase.

No. You aren't looking at the bigger picture. You are focused on the smaller picture. That's ok though. FoxBusiness told you that increased wages will wreck our booming, greatest ever, the best REALLY, economy.

 

[kong1802]

I had to quote this segment because it’s not “$15 starting pay” only. It’s raises across the board. I don’t know enough about the exact numbers of employees/dollars...but I think they would be shocking to see.

A lot of people take a very emotional view on these subjects, claiming “you’re against the little guy!” Or “you’re heartless if you don’t want to see a $15 starting wage!”
When really, it’s just people looking at the bigger picture and knowing that there will be some consequence to that kind of increase.

Will it be loss of jobs, higher prices, other cutbacks? We don’t know for sure. We do know that a company is not just going to eat that kind of millions of dollars increase in payroll.

There's a lot of "don't know" in there, but somehow is followed by "we do know".....Seems to be some fear in there...

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

 

[Nubs70]

No. You aren't looking at the bigger picture. You are focused on the smaller picture. That's ok though. FoxBusiness told you that increased wages will wreck our booming, greatest ever, the best REALLY, economy.

Arbitrary wage increases can lead to inflation. We need to get back to a point where the 10 yr tbill is at 3% with normal differentials between 2-10 yr till and 10 -30 yr tbill.

 

[21stamps]

There's a lot of "don't know" in there, but somehow is followed by "we do know".....Seems to be some fear in there...

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."

Lol.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Arbitrary wage increases can lead to inflation. We need to get back to a point where the 10 yr tbill is at 3% with normal differentials between 2-10 yr till and 10 -30 yr tbill.

How’s this arbitrary? It’s management and labor negotiating in public for a new CBA.

 

[Tom P.]

No. You aren't looking at the bigger picture. You are focused on the smaller picture. That's ok though. FoxBusiness told you that increased wages will wreck our booming, greatest ever, the best REALLY, economy.

Ah. I get it now. This is all political. This is all about hatred for Trump and the Republicans. I should have realized that from the beginning. Knowing that this is really a political debate, rather than one about the economics of Walt Disney World, explains why so many are deliberately ignoring facts and repeatedly restating lies, just like politicians do.

However, since I cannot actually address any of that without getting into a political debate, and since political debates are expressly prohibited on all but the dedicated politics board, I'll just have to bow out of this debate. Which is probably for the best anyway, as it is not moving forward in any meaningful way anyway.

 

[xdan0920]

Ah. I get it now. This is all political. This is all about hatred for Trump and the Republicans. I should have realized that from the beginning. Knowing that this is really a political debate, rather than one about the economics of Walt Disney World, explains why so many are deliberately ignoring facts and repeatedly restating lies, just like politicians do.

However, since I cannot actually address any of that without getting into a political debate, and since political debates are expressly prohibited on all but the dedicated politics board, I'll just have to bow out of this debate. Which is probably for the best anyway, as it is not moving forward in any meaningful way anyway.

Um. Not sure where you got all that chief.

edit to add reluctantly, since politics have nothing to do with my larger point.

I am a registered Republican.

 

[xdan0920]

Arbitrary wage increases can lead to inflation. We need to get back to a point where the 10 yr tbill is at 3% with normal differentials between 2-10 yr till and 10 -30 yr tbill.

Arbitrary? What makes this situation an arbitrary wage increase?

 

[eliza61nyc]

Ah. I get it now. This is all political. This is all about hatred for Trump and the Republicans. I should have realized that from the beginning. Knowing that this is really a political debate, rather than one about the economics of Walt Disney World, explains why so many are deliberately ignoring facts and repeatedly restating lies, just like politicians do.

However, since I cannot actually address any of that without getting into a political debate, and since political debates are expressly prohibited on all but the dedicated politics board, I'll just have to bow out of this debate. Which is probably for the best anyway, as it is not moving forward in any meaningful way anyway.

HUH?? what lies? boy leave a thread for a day and all heck breaks loose.