Disney not subject to Anaheim’s ‘living wage’ ballot measure, judge rules - OCR/SCNG

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Ok... So what is your solution to solving the food insecurity issues and homelessness among CMs? How do you propose they improve VM morale and attract enough CMs to provide the level of service you keep pining for at the discount rate you pay for entrance?

Maybe Disney could do them a favor and automatically sign them up for food stamps when they get hired?
I don't think there is a solution unfortunately. They are in an area with a high cost of living. Their best solution is to take out a student loan, get a degree, and get a nice paying job if they want to
stay in Southern California. Or move.

Same goes for any minimum wage job. I don't even think minimum wage jobs in other states are "living wages", but it's probably not as high a cost of living as Southern California.

All your customer facing jobs, be it fast food, retail, etc are all the same, they are entry level jobs.

Despite what people CLAIM about how in the old days you could buy a home on entry level wages. Both my parents and grand parents told me this was never the case. People always have gone through college or trade school to get a "living wage".
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Anyone can get a STEM degree, even if they have to take out a loan, are only working part time, and taking it slow. It will be worth it and they will have so many opportunities.

I went to community colleges before transferring to a CSU and it was not very expensive. No one should be getting degrees that don't pay well or going to expensive private schools they can't afford.

It is important for people to look out for themselves instead of waiting and hoping that the world is going to change to take care of you.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
It is important for people to look out for themselves instead of waiting and hoping that the world is going to change to take care of you.

Right... So it's their fault for working at Disneyland.

But that's ok. Disney can just replace all the missing CMs with more mobile apps.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
If no one wants to work a job that can't provide for basic necessities, then they would have to eventually close the park right? Is that what you want?
Only high schoolers or college students should be working entry level jobs at themeparks. Not a mom/dad taking care of their children.

Do you hold Walmart, Targer, Burger King, and all your local stores/restaraunts in the same regard? That any job needs to be a permanent career?

Why would anyone even want to run or manage Disneyland or the Disney corporation if they could provide for their family by stocking shelves at home depot.

Disneyland and almost any corporation WOULD cease to exist if every entry level worker could buy a home and provide for their family, all the higher rank people would leave.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
I've worked for a themepark before. Six Flags. That was almost 10 years ago.

I never had the expectation it was anything more than a first job and a temporary job.

In that time I got a STEM degree, a salaried job, moved to better jobs 3 times, a wife, and a home.

Not saying this to brag or boast. I am so thankful to have the life I do and am blessed in many ways.

If I stayed at Six Flags I'd have gotten their annual 10 cents a year raise (this was a thing) and would still be living with my parents.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
If no one wants to work a job that can't provide for basic necessities, then they would have to eventually close the park right? Is that what you want?

It’s doable but people would need to pay more to enter the parks. Disneyland could easily give their employees a $10 an hour raise, add about $15 to the ticket cost, problem solved.

Puts DL out of reach for even more people and makes it even more of a upper middle class/wealthy destination but if that’s the solution to pay the employees better it’s doable.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Only high schoolers or college students should be working entry level jobs at themeparks. Not a mom/dad taking care of their children.

What if there are not enough high schoolers or college students that want to work at a theme park? Should Disney just refuse to hire anyone over 30?

Disneyland and almost any corporation WOULD cease to exist if every entry level worker could buy a home and provide for their family, all the higher rank people would leave.

You keep building this strawman to tear down, instead of listening to what I am saying. I'm not saying that the CMs at Disneyland should be able to buy a house and a car and raise a family of five, with enough money left over to vacation in Hawaii.

I'm saying CMs shouldn't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from.

I'm saying that CMs shouldn't be sleeping in their cars.

Supporting low wages could make some sense if you also support government provided social services to help those not making enough to live off wages alone, but otherwise, what is the point in having a job that provides no support for the workers or community at large?

If Disney jobs are a drain on society, then it's up to society to shut them down.

Or vote for initiatives to force higher wages...
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
It’s doable but people would need to pay more to enter the parks. Disneyland could easily give their employees a $10 an hour raise, add about $15 to the ticket cost, problem solved.

It is, and again for context, Disney seems to have reached an agreement with the unions (to soon be announced) that would be more in line with what they would have paid under Measure L anyway.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
What if there are not enough high schoolers or college students that want to work at a theme park? Should Disney just refuse to hire anyone over 30?



You keep building this strawman to tear down, instead of listening to what I am saying. I'm not saying that the CMs at Disneyland should be able to buy a house and a car and raise a family of five, with enough money left over to vacation in Hawaii.

I'm saying CMs shouldn't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from.

I'm saying that CMs shouldn't be sleeping in their cars.

Supporting low wages could make some sense if you also support government provided social services to help those not making enough to live off wages alone, but otherwise, what is the point in having a job that provides no support for the workers or community at large?

If Disney jobs are a drain on society, then it's up to society to shut them down.

Or vote for initiatives to force higher wages...
I don't get your argument at all. Any entry level job will not pay someone's living expenses or for their meals, especially not in southern california.

When I'm at Disneyland the most common cast members I see are teens and people in their 20s.

The jobs are there to give younger people work experience and some spending money before they move out to a better job that isn't as stressful and also
pays them more.

If you are optimistic you could stay in a job that you don't like and doesn't pay you well year after year and see what the results are.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
It is, and again for context, Disney seems to have reached an agreement with the unions (to soon be announced) that would be more in line with what they would have paid under Measure L anyway.
I think I can speak for everyone, no one should go hungry. No one wants to see humans suffering or struggling to get by

But no one is going to be able to live comfortably on an entry level job, and this is not a new concept.

The jobs are primarily for teens / early 20s or people still going through college or trade school.

That's not meant to be insulting or demeaning. I've been there before, and that's 100% part of life.
 

RobWDW1971

Well-Known Member
Well one of the reasons it isn't sustainable is because companies just want to generate as much profit as possible to line the pockets of the executives. I understand higher level jobs pay more, not saying the CEO should earn minimum wage, but you have to admit CEOs nowadays are paid astronomically more than they were before while paying people comparatively less than they would've been paid for the same job decades ago. Again, very complicated situation, tons of sides of the problem. Disney would not go bankrupt if they were forced to pay all their CMs $22.50, not even close, but Bob and the higher ups wouldn't be able to afford their 3rd yachts each so they don't want to pay the people working in their parks a wage they can live off of if they work at the parks full time.

You seem sincere in your commentary and from your post it appears you are in college so you are naturally coming at this from a theoretical/academic point of view. As someone on the other end of the spectrum (old and partially retired), I can only provide insight from the reality of how the actual business (private and corporate) world works.

When people have run a small business and needed the cash flow from that business to pay their employees, feed their family, and repay their business loans or have lead a private or public company that has gone bankrupt and had to lay off all of its employees and cancel orders from suppliers that crippled their business or lost a significant amount of their net worth in private/public investments, they can tell you that these issues are not theoretical. Risk, reward, and return on their personal investment as well as their investors' (institutional, private, etc.) capital is at the core of these decisions.

No business is going to increase its cost base, lower its cash flow, and generate a lower return for its investors intentionally. If a company (Disney or otherwise) felt that increasing the wages of their employees by 50% would generate a net return, they would do it. They obviously do not believe that paying the Small World attractions host 50% more will generate enough incremental return.

It is that simple. I know in today's society we like to attach motives, emotions, good guys/bad guys, etc. and talk about employees being part of the magic, most important resource, etc, etc. but decisions will always be made in the interest of those that are funding the business and are taking the risk of loss of that investment.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
You seem sincere in your commentary and from your post it appears you are in college so you are naturally coming at this from a theoretical/academic point of view. As someone on the other end of the spectrum (old and partially retired), I can only provide insight from the reality of how the actual business (private and corporate) world works.

When people have run a small business and needed the cash flow from that business to pay their employees, feed their family, and repay their business loans or have lead a private or public company that has gone bankrupt and had to lay off all of its employees and cancel orders from suppliers that crippled their business or lost a significant amount of their net worth in private/public investments, they can tell you that these issues are not theoretical. Risk, reward, and return on their personal investment as well as their investors' (institutional, private, etc.) capital is at the core of these decisions.

No business is going to increase its cost base, lower its cash flow, and generate a lower return for its investors intentionally. If a company (Disney or otherwise) felt that increasing the wages of their employees by 50% would generate a net return, they would do it. They obviously do not believe that paying the Small World attractions host 50% more will generate enough incremental return.

It is that simple. I know in today's society we like to attach motives, emotions, good guys/bad guys, etc. and talk about employees being part of the magic, most important resource, etc, etc. but decisions will always be made in the interest of those that are funding the business and are taking the risk of loss of that investment.
Not to mention corporations like Disney answer to the board and the stockholders, that’s the CEOs primary concern.

It’s not enough to simply turn a profit, you have to meet expectations or the stock suffers, investors lose money, and the CEO loses their job.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
It should also be noted that Universal Studios Hollywood is only there because it's a film studio, run by a film company.

The film industry in California receives hundreds of millions of dollars in tax breaks per year. Any tax break or subsidy Universal Studios may have gotten on its parking structure or road infrastructure, a direct comparison to the Disneyland discussion here, is likely peanuts compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars that are doled out in tax breaks and subsidies to Hollywood film studios.

I'm a bit confused here..

Didn't Disney and similar move most of their studios workforce to Canada and third party countries to pay less wages and use Canadian tax breaks and grants?
Also, Doesn't Disney benefit exactly for the same tax breaks since they are.. you know.. one of the biggest movie studios with the biggest box office numbers ever?
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
1000%. Affordable housing is truly the problem here. While the cost of other necessities - food, gas, etc. - are also inflated, keeping rent capped at 30% of net would truly solve a lot of problems here. No reason why rents and housing costs are as high as they are. None.
Speculators and large enterprises creating artificial scarcity. Something that happens a lot in big popular towns like Vancouver.

My mother has a lifelong friend who has been living there for so long and the houses and apartments are instantly scopped BEFORE THE BUILDINGS are even finalized. And 99% of them are big corporations.. mainly from China and mid east.

Then they play the "release little to gain more". Aka wait for prices to inflate even more.. sell few units over the years then get the big $ on the very limited last units.



I still remember the story that even after the government put limits on who can purchase. Chinese companies started to send "plants" to act as "families that bought homes". Then after a little time there to pass the mandates.. they were removed by the companies and the companies sold the homes at huge profits.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
Maybe wages should be linked to ticket prices. When the ticket price gets raised raise the wage by a proportional ammount.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Maybe wages should be linked to ticket prices. When the ticket price gets raised raise the wage by a proportional ammount.
Here is the issue.

Using a simple Restaurant example.

A owner operator formula is 30% Food Costs, 30% Operational costs (rent or mortgage) taxes and licenses and insurance. 30% Labor, except owner, and 10% profit (owner's pay). You figure out your pricing on that.

So if I have a labor "budget" and the.minimum wage goes up 10% and I have 10 employees, I need to dismiss an employee to keep my costs within my budget.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
Here is the issue.

Using a simple Restaurant example.

A owner operator formula is 30% Food Costs, 30% Operational costs (rent or mortgage) taxes and licenses and insurance. 30% Labor, except owner, and 10% profit (owner's pay). You figure out your pricing on that.

So if I have a labor "budget" and the.minimum wage goes up 10% and I have 10 employees, I need to dismiss an employee to keep my costs within my budget.

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. My point was that pay rises at Disneyland could be linked to some metric like ticket prices. Using your analogy if ticket prices went up by 10% pay would rise by some linked factor so your 30% labour cost was constant rather thsn the owner increasing their take and not rewarding their staff.
Yes its simplistic and idealistic but as with a lot of things you need some mechanism to maintain a balance otherwise you get exploitation by one side or another and the net result is the customer and everyone else looses
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom