News Disney mask policy at Walt Disney World theme parks

[disneygeek90]

You can elect not to wear a seatbelt. Although it's "the law" to wear one you're not going to lose your driver's license if you don't. You're pretty unlikely to even get a ticket for it. People texting while driving on I-95 are very obvious and I've yet to see somebody pulled over for that.

This seatbelt analogy with masks is not very valid. A seatbelt will protect you from certain types of injuries in close to 100% of crashes. Masking, especially with real world mask materials and real world "technique," isn't going to stop anywhere near 100% of transmissions.

In the CDC powerpoint, they say 40%-60% effective for source control and 20%-30% for personal protection. Nothing like seatbelts and not even close to the protection from the vaccines, even against Delta.

We can change the analogies all we want. Let's say the seatbelt is the vaccine. To your point, the seatbelt will protect you from certain injuries in close to 100%. Great.

Now, there's been a lot of technology worked on since the invention of the seatbelt to further protect drivers in other ways. I immediately think of turn signals and lane assistance. While not all cars have these and not all drivers use them (especially turn signals ) they are created to provide an additional layer of protection even though we know, worst case, the seat belt should protect from death.

Using all of these methods will help protect you in a car crash, or even being in a crash at all. Using some is good but not as ideal as having all. Using none will put you at much further risk.

 

[Ponderer]

You can elect not to wear a seatbelt. Although it's "the law" to wear one you're not going to lose your driver's license if you don't. You're pretty unlikely to even get a ticket for it. People texting while driving on I-95 are very obvious and I've yet to see somebody pulled over for that.

This seatbelt analogy with masks is not very valid. A seatbelt will protect you from certain types of injuries in close to 100% of crashes. Masking, especially with real world mask materials and real world "technique," isn't going to stop anywhere near 100% of transmissions.

In the CDC powerpoint, they say 40%-60% effective for source control and 20%-30% for personal protection. Nothing like seatbelts and not even close to the protection from the vaccines, even against Delta.

Yeah, but understand what that means. 30 percent doesn’t mean that 7 out of 10 people will get infected. It means you have 30 percent better protection than someone not vaccinated. That’s *magnitudes* more protection. And when you get to the 40 to 60 percent number, that’s better protection than you get with your standard flu vaccine every year.

And when you combine masks and vaccination, you get exponentially better protection. Not invulnerability, but more, more, more protection. And that’s the point. We don’t need to get to 100 percent of protection when it comes to the virus. We just need to get to that 80 percent protection across society, where the virus has a harder and harder time finding hosts. And combining masks with vaccinations makes it happen faster. That’s all.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

You can elect not to wear a seatbelt. Although it's "the law" to wear one you're not going to lose your driver's license if you don't. You're pretty unlikely to even get a ticket for it. People texting while driving on I-95 are very obvious and I've yet to see somebody pulled over for that.

This seatbelt analogy with masks is not very valid. A seatbelt will protect you from certain types of injuries in close to 100% of crashes. Masking, especially with real world mask materials and real world "technique," isn't going to stop anywhere near 100% of transmissions.

In the CDC powerpoint, they say 40%-60% effective for source control and 20%-30% for personal protection. Nothing like seatbelts and not even close to the protection from the vaccines, even against Delta.

If seatbelts are anywhere near protecting you "from certain types of injuries in close to 100% of crashes" then why do we need airbags?

You can't lawfully elect not to wear a seatbelt. You can do it until you get caught, get tickets, and if you get enough tickets you may well lose your license. Regarding pulling people over for phones: the phone law in Florida is new. There is often a grace period before enforcement becomes more routine. In fact, it was the same with seatbelts. At first, it wasn't enforced at all, then it was only enforced as a secondary violation (you had to get pulled over for something else in order to get a seatbelt ticket.) Now they can give you a seatbelt ticket anytime. (May vary from state to state.) It's the law, not "the law."

Attack the analogy all you want, the point is made: some protection is better than no protection, even if it is uncomfortable, and even if it hardly ever comes into play. Not every car accident or covid case would result in death regardless of seatbelts or masks. But it's possible in both cases every day.

While we're on the subject, I know someone who had their arm torn off at the shoulder by a seatbelt in a car accident. (It was reattached.)

 

[skypilot2922]

Right, which as I said, I think is stupid to do one and not the other.

Not sure what you are trying to argue with me.

You guys do know that 'social distancing' came from a 14 y/o's science project that some faceless gov't drone thought was a dandy idea with no double blind testing it just 'seemed like a good idea' No scientific proof of efficacy.

Social distancing born in ABQ teen's science project

Laura Glass’ award-winning science fair project was the subject of a Journal story in 2006. The Albuquerque High sophomore’s research later became the basis for social distancing.

www.abqjournal.com

I support SCIENCE based solutions with data attached.

Might have to do with the fact I work with radio waves and fly an airplane both are entirely dependent upon the laws of physics. Radio waves have rules of propagation, and airplanes will stall if the angle of attack is too great and the airflow is no longer flowing around the leading edge and chord line of the airfoil. Neither cares about the motives of the person doing this they simply follow natural laws that cannot be broken

 

[CosmicRays]

I still think the distancing in my own opinion is something Disney should return to. But that would mean capping attendance again to be able to serve the guests a good experience and I think we know attendance will not be capped.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Except you can ask people if they are vaccinated and allow the vaccinated to go maskless while those who either won't disclose or aren't would have to wear a mask. The only requirement of the law is that you don't deny service to the unvaccinated. You can use the CDC card as proof. I don't know what your business is but I can't imagine it is the type that would get people motivated to fake vaccination cards just so they can not wear a mask inside your business.

To try and avoid abuse of employees, I'd suggest a large sign that says "masks required by ownership, if you don't wish to comply don not enter" or something like that.

Thanks. We didn't think of putting a sign on the door that's been there from day one (more professionally worded, of course.)

And per usual, you're completely wrong about the Florida law. You can't ask for proof of vaccination, period. And now they're trying to add a $5K fine if you do.

 

[durangojim]

At this point, I think everything that could be said has been said. Mandate the vaccine at the national level or create a vaccine passport and don't allow those without it to partake in societal norms like eating at restaurants, going to theme parks, sporting events, etc.

 

[Trauma]

So here's the deal as a small business owner.

pre-Delta:

My philosophy was this: we were open for business before vaccines existed. We took all kinds of precautions to include requiring masks, social distancing, limiting foot traffic when necessary, ventilating, as well as disinfecting door handles, credit card machines, etc. My priority was protecting my employees and my customers to the best of my ability. If any of them got covid, it would not be through my negligence.

Business ran smoothly, numbers were up. In fact, even being closed for two months, 2020 beat 2019 numbers.

Once vaccines were available, why would I eliminate a portion of my customer base who had been shopping safely all along? It would be inconsistent. All things being equal plus some people vaccinated meant we were in a safer place than before the vaccines were available.

Theoretically, if I had one vaccinated employee (or myself) in the place with one or two vaccinated customers, we could all take our masks off. But the Government messed that up by prohibiting us from asking for proof of vaccine.

Now, there are cases where I know the customer well, and they know me well, and we each voluntarily share the fact that we are vaccinated - with no reason to doubt each other, and we take our masks off until someone else comes in. That more pleasant experience could happen a lot more often if not for Government restrictions here in backwards Florida.

The other thing that messed things up was the Government voiding local mask mandates. Now I have to be the heavy in enforcing mask mandates in my own business. Every once in awhile, my employees take some verbal abuse including recently being called the gay f word.

I would be totally fine with the vaccinated going maskless, if I could ask each customer at the door. I can't. (How stupid is that?)

Now, with Delta: I would be (and still am) requiring masks of every person in the building.

All employees are fully vaccinated (only one is in the two-week waiting period, but he had COVID before Christmas - got it from his girlfriend.)

So my minor disagreement with you is the government should not be encouraging me to only serve the vaccinated. But yes, they should be providing passports and I should be able to offer a different experience to the unvaccinated (wear masks, maybe curbside pick up, etc.) And they should not be interfering in either me conducting my business or my community enforcing mandates appropriate for our community.

This Governor in Florida is making my business and life needlessly more difficult and dangerous.

I didn’t have to close at all since we are considered essential.

My revenue is up drastically.

Covid put my smaller competitors out of business.

I knew these people personally.

Good people.

Im glad your doing well.

Glad I’m doing well.

In the end though it just all feels awful to me.

 

[Chomama]

You guys do know that 'social distancing' came from a 14 y/o's science project that some faceless gov't drone thought was a dandy idea with no double blind testing it just 'seemed like a good idea' No scientific proof of efficacy.

Social distancing born in ABQ teen's science project

Laura Glass’ award-winning science fair project was the subject of a Journal story in 2006. The Albuquerque High sophomore’s research later became the basis for social distancing.

www.abqjournal.com

I support SCIENCE based solutions with data attached

I hear you but it is also common sense. It is harder for a contagious disease to spread when people aren’t near one another.

 

[Trauma]

You guys do know that 'social distancing' came from a 14 y/o's science project that some faceless gov't drone thought was a dandy idea with no double blind testing it just 'seemed like a good idea' No scientific proof of efficacy.

Social distancing born in ABQ teen's science project

Laura Glass’ award-winning science fair project was the subject of a Journal story in 2006. The Albuquerque High sophomore’s research later became the basis for social distancing.

www.abqjournal.com

I support SCIENCE based solutions with data attached.

Might have to do with the fact I work with radio waves and fly an airplane both are entirely dependent upon the laws of physics. Radio waves have rules of propagation, and airplanes will stall if the angle of attack is too great and the airflow is no longer flowing around the leading edge and chord line of the airfoil. Neither cares about the motives of the person doing this they simply follow natural laws that cannot be broken

Funny social distancing is how we stopped the Black Plague.

Take a look it’s in a book ….

 

[DisneyCane]

If seatbelts are anywhere near protecting you "from certain types of injuries in close to 100% of crashes" then why do we need airbags?

You can't lawfully elect not to wear a seatbelt. You can do it until you get caught, get tickets, and if you get enough tickets you may well lose your license. Regarding pulling people over for phones: the phone law in Florida is new. There is often a grace period before enforcement becomes more routine. In fact, it was the same with seatbelts. At first, it wasn't enforced at all, then it was only enforced as a secondary violation (you had to get pulled over for something else in order to get a seatbelt ticket.) Now they can give you a seatbelt ticket anytime. (May vary from state to state.) It's the law, not "the law."

Attack the analogy all you want, the point is made: some protection is better than no protection, even if it is uncomfortable, and even if it hardly ever comes into play. Not every car accident or covid case would result in death regardless of seatbelts or masks. But it's possible in both cases every day.

While we're on the subject, I know someone who had their arm torn off at the shoulder by a seatbelt in a car accident. (It was reattached.)

Airbags were added because three point seatbelts with no head restraint don't protect your head from hitting the steering wheel (driver), dashboard (passenger) or sides of the vehicle. It is protecting something different. Without a seatbelt, an airbag isn't going to prevent you from flying through the windshield or being thrown into the roof of the vehicle.

Masks and vaccines are protecting against the same thing, transmission of the virus. When one is significantly more effective than the other, adding the other on top doesn't necessarily increase the protection by a significant degree.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is not true.

The constant among the unvaccinated is distrust in government.

This viewpoint is also help by many minority populations also refusing to get vaccinated.

It’s not as simple as black and white.

The constant is the false assumption that things change that much the day after an election as they did the day before

so it becomes a “hate teeter totter” and nobody will support anything based on what some overpaid blowhard tells them at night In between the Medicare commercials

 

[DisneyCane]

Thanks. We didn't think of putting a sign on the door that's been there from day one (more professionally worded, of course.)

And per usual, you're completely wrong about the Florida law. You can't ask for proof of vaccination, period. And now they're trying to add a $5K fine if you do.

If I'm wrong "per usual," please point out where anything in this text says that "you can't ask for proof of vaccination, period." This is the text of the bill that was passed and signed into law:

(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Airbags were added because three point seatbelts with no head restraint don't protect your head from hitting the steering wheel (driver), dashboard (passenger) or sides of the vehicle. It is protecting something different. Without a seatbelt, an airbag isn't going to prevent you from flying through the windshield or being thrown into the roof of the vehicle.

Masks and vaccines are protecting against the same thing, transmission of the virus. When one is significantly more effective than the other, adding the other on top doesn't necessarily increase the protection by a significant degree.

Who determines what is a significant degree at that point? Any reduction in the spread is a good thing so I can't see why anyone would argue against something that can reduce the spread and doesn't have a negative economic impact the way capacity restrictions and closing non-essential businesses did.

 

[Trauma]

Who determines what is a significant degree at that point? Any reduction in the spread is a good thing so I can't see why anyone would argue against something that can reduce the spread and doesn't have a negative economic impact the way capacity restrictions and closing non-essential businesses did.

Part of the problem is masks are SIGNIFICANTLY less effective without social distancing

 

[Gringrinngghost]

If I'm wrong "per usual," please point out where anything in this text says that "you can't ask for proof of vaccination, period." This is the text of the bill that was passed and signed into law:
(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

Party of Small Government and Business Rights everyone!

 

[Incomudro]

Who determines what is a significant degree at that point? Any reduction in the spread is a good thing so I can't see why anyone would argue against something that can reduce the spread and doesn't have a negative economic impact the way capacity restrictions and closing non-essential businesses did.

Who determines what we must wear on our faces, based on what criteria of effectiveness?
Because the reduction in spread is not proven, anywhere near as clearly as what airbags do, and don't do.
You can run a vehicle into a barrier at a given speed - say 40mph - with airbags and without, and clearly show an occupant would be dead without airbags, and alive with airbags for instance.
We can measure the forces on the test dummy.
Any occupant in that seat dead or not dead.

With masks, we can test in labs, and see some reduction in particles spread with masks vs without.
What we don't know is how people in the path of those particles will do.
Are they healthy?
Vaccinated?
Obese?
How old are they?
Even then, results will vary greatly.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Part of the problem is masks are SIGNIFICANTLY less effective without social distancing

But still more effective than nothing, correct? I can understand why officials or businesses would be hesitant to jump right back into social distancing again. Many businesses are still recovering from last year's lost revenue. Disney has been increasing capacity and accepting park reservations for guests to coincide with that increase. How do they notify guests that they no longer have a park reservation for their trip because they decided to reduce capacity in order to allow for social distancing? Theoretically, they could implement social distancing indoors again without reducing capacity, but good luck trying to walk anywhere with more people spilling out of ride entrances and into walkways than we're seeing now. It's a logistical nightmare and I can absolutely understand why Disney why Disney isn't allowing the absence of perfection to prevent them from taking any sort of positive action now. Delaying masks while executives debate whether and how to increase social distancing without kicking people out of the parks is wasted time. While I often agree with Mike Ehrmantraut when he says, "No half measures," the reality is that the saying, "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good," exists for a reason.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Who determines what we must wear on our faces, based on what criteria of effectiveness?
Because the reduction in spread is not proven, anywhere near as clearly as what airbags do, and don't do.
You can run a vehicle into a barrier at a given speed - say 40mph - with airbags and without, and clearly show an occupant would be dead without airbags, and alive with airbags for instance.
We can measure the forces on the test dummy.
Any occupant in that seat dead or not dead.

With masks, we can test in labs, and see some reduction in particles spread with masks vs without.
What we don't know is how people in the path of those particles will do.
Are they healthy?
Vaccinated?
Obese?
How old are they?
Even then, results will vary greatly.

I don't think you'll find many volunteers to stand in the path of someone infected with COVID-19 while they cough so we can study the results of the mask/no mask experiment - and putting a crash test dummy in the path won't tell us anything we don't already know. So your argument would be to never wear masks because we can't ever put a specific number on their effectiveness?

 

[Disney Analyst]

I did my part, I wore my mask, got vaccinated when urged too. I'm done. If people need to be protected then it's up to them to protect themselves, I'm not doing it for them anymore, they made their choice. If you aren't vaccinated- stay home. If your children aren't vaccinated then what the heck are you doing bringing them to Disney during a Pandemic in the first place for.
Disney putting this policy in place is nothing more than trying to make you feel good about being jammed in with crowds during a Pandemic. That picture proves it. Now granted they are looking to the CDC, but come on, if you still follow what the CDC says after almost 2 years of revisions and back tracking well then I guess you are willing to believe anything.
Like I said, if you are there and you aren't vaccinated then walk in a different direction or better yet- be responsible for yourself and don't go, stop expecting others protect you from your own stupidity.

Since you don’t actually get to decide what rules to follow or not follow at a private business, I sincerely hope they kick you out and you can enjoy your vacation in your hotel room

Have fun!