I'm new around here. Is it standard practice to just insult people instead of having an honest discussion?
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Disney lets child molester employee escape
- Thread starter Skyway
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nytimez
Well-Known Member
Facts are stubborn things. You can either accept them, or invent your own - you seem to have chosen the latter option. No real need to discuss it further.
The only facts that I have are those that were in the story linked from the OP. If you have something that refutes those facts, the rest of us would love to see it. Otherwise, you are welcome to challenge my posts based on those facts or ignore my posts.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
uh...welcome to the forum of peace and love.
I_heart_Tigger
Well-Known Member
As I suggested to someone previously this is not an isolated incident to Disney and if this is a concern for you I would advise that you never take a cruise with any cruise line. You only heard about this one because the news got wind of it. I would suggest you plan on alternate vacation experiences until you do not have children with you.
nytimez
Well-Known Member
All the info needed to refute is in the previous posts - also see Skyway's response.
Skyway's point was a good one. They had a reasonable belief that a crime had occurred. It should have been reported timely to local law enforcement. Legally, I'm not sure what 'timely' is. Either way, my initial post on this subject opined on the reasons that that call didn't happen.
That doesn't change the fact that your timeline was wrong and that your assertion that they had confirmed prior to sailing that a crime had been committed isn't supported by the facts. One would expect more from someone with your nom de plume.
That doesn't change the fact that your timeline was wrong and that your assertion that they had confirmed prior to sailing that a crime had been committed isn't supported by the facts. One would expect more from someone with your nom de plume.
nytimez
Well-Known Member
Again, facts are stubborn things:
At 3:57 p.m., the 11-year-old from Brazil led the officer to the spot where she encountered the suspect and “appeared to be uncomfortable when she walked me to the elevator where (the crew member) touched and kissed her,” the officer wrote in her report.
The security officer then retrieved and reviewed the video of the elevator lobby outside the car where the attack occurred and confirmed the actions of a uniformed crew member were consistent with the 11-year-old’s retelling of the story.
I assume that you are working up to a point.
From the information that you posted, you can see that nothing was confirmed at 3:57, as you previously asserted. The video was pulled and reviewed after 3:57.
Also, you will note that the video was of the elevator lobby, not the elevator. As such, they appear to have confirmed that a CM was where the child alleged, not that the video actually showed the attack.
It should be noted that I am not for a moment taking the position that the CM did not commit the crime. Our disagreement is regarding what security confirmed to be true and when.
luv
Well-Known Member
Sadly, I am not surprised or even disappointed that Disney swept this under the rug and even paid to send the guy home. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they'd pressured and/or paid the family to let it go.
I wish I could say that I expected more from Disney, but I don't. This is basically what I'd have expected. I'm just surprised they let the story get out. I wonder if some employee got tired of the way Disney handles stuff and blabbed.
I wish I could say that I expected more from Disney, but I don't. This is basically what I'd have expected. I'm just surprised they let the story get out. I wonder if some employee got tired of the way Disney handles stuff and blabbed.
nytimez
Well-Known Member
For emphasis:
confirmed the actions of a uniformed crew member were consistent with the 11-year-old’s retelling of the story
PatriciaH
Member
I do not have children. I am actually shocked at how many people with children think how Disney handled this was OK. I just choose not to vacation there at this time. I do not like how they handled this. Maybe they will make a statement and explain. Sure hope so.
Also, I am a travel agent so I really try to use companies I am confident in and travel to places that are good companies.
Again, I assume that you are doing something other than arguing my point.
Dontcha think that if they meant 'confirmed that the attack did occur' that that is what they would say? Instead they state that the actions of the CM, as viewed from the elevator lobby, were consistent with the child's story.
Imagine that the child's story was that she entered the elevator and then the CM entered. He then attacked her and left the elevator. Now imagine that the video from the elevator lobby showed her enter the elevator, followed by a CM who left the elevator thirty seconds or so later. Wouldn't that video confirm that the actions of the CM were consistent with the child's story?
nytimez
Well-Known Member
The video is in the story, I am assuming you watched it. If not, I would suggest you do so.
fillerup
Well-Known Member
It's not within the purview of private security (i.e. non law enforcement) to conduct a criminal investigation. It's not up to private security to try to confirm or refute a crime. It's not up to private security to waste an hour and a half interviewing a molested child, writing a report, reviewing video and finding a manager to interview the perp.
A guest promptly reported a felony child molestation. At that point, it's the responsibility of private security to call the damn police. The police are the professionals who are paid and charged under the law to investigate crimes.
Disney's behavior in this incident was egregious in every respect.
They failed to report the crime until the next day.
They allowed the perp to roam the ship for 3 hours after he was identified.
They paid his travel expenses home, saying they were "honoring" his contract. Horse squeeze, there's no honor in any of this. The only travel expenses TWDC should have been paying were the victim's expenses to come back and testify in this pedophile's trial.
To make it worse, Disney has now lied to the media about the timeline of events.
And by the way, pedophilia is rarely a one and done event. Chances are pretty darn good that this creep is continuing his "hobby" back in his home country.
A guest promptly reported a felony child molestation. At that point, it's the responsibility of private security to call the damn police. The police are the professionals who are paid and charged under the law to investigate crimes.
Disney's behavior in this incident was egregious in every respect.
They failed to report the crime until the next day.
They allowed the perp to roam the ship for 3 hours after he was identified.
They paid his travel expenses home, saying they were "honoring" his contract. Horse squeeze, there's no honor in any of this. The only travel expenses TWDC should have been paying were the victim's expenses to come back and testify in this pedophile's trial.
To make it worse, Disney has now lied to the media about the timeline of events.
And by the way, pedophilia is rarely a one and done event. Chances are pretty darn good that this creep is continuing his "hobby" back in his home country.
nytimez
Well-Known Member
This x 1000
And for all we know, he's not continuing he's "hobby" at home - he could be doing it on another cruise line in the same region.
Happy sailing!
I couldn't watch the video earlier as it would just spin. I've now seen it on another site. I will give you that the CM actions are consistent with the girls story although the video is from the wrong angle to actually confirm the actions happened.
Still, the video supports the idea that this CM had done this sort of thing previously and got away with it perhaps because he was aware of the camera placement so was careful to hide his bad acts from the camera.
fillerup
Well-Known Member
Here's Channel 6's follow up report which is embedded over at Cruise Law News. It includes an interview with the Brevard County DA who isn't happy with DCL.
This story is gaining traction around the web and in the media.
Two more things occur to me.
We still wouldn't know about this incident if someone at TWDC with a conscience (or an axe to grind) hadn't give the security report and video to the media.
And ya know, it's within the realm of possibility that something like this could have occurred elsewhere in the Disney empire, not just the cruise line. Apparently all it would take is a crime with a non citizen victim and a non citizen perp. Then the vic decides they don't want to press charges, the perp gets put on a plane, all expenses paid, and voila - problem solved.
Channel 6 Video
This story is gaining traction around the web and in the media.
Two more things occur to me.
We still wouldn't know about this incident if someone at TWDC with a conscience (or an axe to grind) hadn't give the security report and video to the media.
And ya know, it's within the realm of possibility that something like this could have occurred elsewhere in the Disney empire, not just the cruise line. Apparently all it would take is a crime with a non citizen victim and a non citizen perp. Then the vic decides they don't want to press charges, the perp gets put on a plane, all expenses paid, and voila - problem solved.
Channel 6 Video
I_heart_Tigger
Well-Known Member
I'm a travel agent as well and I used to work on cruise ships which is why I am telling you not to travel on any cruise lines at all. You are twice as likely to be raped on a cruise ship than in the average city. Crime statistics for most things are about double the average of similar crimes on land and few get reported, even fewer prosecuted.
If I jumped on a cancellation bandwagon every time a company screwed up I would not book anyone on any flight, cruise, resort or hotel chain in the world. What I can do is advise my clients based on personal experience and my extensive travel experience how to take precautions and travel safely. I can not, of course guarantee nothing bad will ever happen but I can do my best to reduce the likelihood.
My clients with children are all advised that children should not be allowed to roam around the ship alone. They have designated play areas with qualified personal but outside of that they should not leave the play area at all. You'd be doing your clients a service to advise them of this.
Also, the next most likely place for a child to be molested by a crew member is in their own cabin. Parents often leave children alone in the cabin while they attend dinners and events on the ship. There are numerous crew members with cabin access keys and they often know where parents are and when they will be returning.
I will not be advising any of my clients to not go on a Disney cruise or any of the other cruises where child molestation occurs and is not reported (read...all of them) but I will arm them with the best defenses to prevent it.
Also, don't get me wrong, I think this crime was handled terribly I just feel that as a travel agent since you are concerned about using good companies that you are confident in that you should know the stats, do the research and not base your decision on the one incident that happened to make the news.
EDIT: Just wanted to add that if you would like to do further research, Ross Klein of Memorial University has extensive stats that will help. http://www.cruisejunkie.com/
You can also check out http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/
This will either scare everyone from ever cruising period or show people that no matter what ship you sail with you are not in a protective bubble where you can act like nothing will ever go wrong.
RandomPrincess
Keep Moving Forward
This whole thing reminds me of college campuses that cover up rapea and don't call in the police.
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