Disney is lying to us.

[Walt Disney1955]

I'll give an example using something such as, a grocery store. There is never a time a grocery store hits 100% capacity. I don't think so anyway. Take a Saturday in December at a Wal-Mart. It's packed for the Christmas season, lots of people. Lines are long, carts are full, etc. And it likely is STILL not close to the 100% capacity that would violate normal fire codes. I don't think people realize just how many people have to be jammed into a building for it to violate such a code. So anyway, a theme park would be similar I would guess. It can be insanely busy, and there is still room to have more in there. This is why you almost never hear about a business complaining that the fire code is too strict, it never hits those marks.

 

[castlecake2.0]

Also as @marni1971 said previously, it looks like they’re not using the fire code capacity, but a moving number based on how quickly they could evacuate the park if needed. I’m not sure what data they use to get that number, but interesting to think about.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

So, I'm gonna complain about this the same way I complain about FP+. Sorry in advance to those who don't agree, but not everyone who visits WDW loves to plan every step we walk weeks in advance. Sometimes you wanna see how you feel about your next day at Disney. I can't tell you how many times we planned out the trip... MK on these two days, Epcot on another two, DHS on yet two others, and AK on the last remaining day, in whatever order. It's not so much the planning part, but the lack of flexibility. So, when I planned the vacation 2 months ago, I thought I wanted to do Epcot on the Day 2, but we decided to jump from MK to Epcot in the evening for dinner on Day 1, so now we want to do DHS on Day 2 and push Epcot back a day. That kind of spontaneity is no longer possible at WDW and still be able to experience most of the attractions.

A reservation system and FP+ make it IMPOSSIBLE to be spontaneous. What fun is that? It's a vacation that you're spending enough to purchase a car. The least they can do is allow you to enjoy it rather make it feel like work. For work I realize meetings are scheduled ahead of time, but even then you have to be flexible when your boss wants to meet tomorrow at 9am or whatever. Why is it for vacation you have to be on a strict schedule all the time. It sucks. It might be great for folks who are OCD about planning out every second of every day, but for many it makes it far less enjoyable. It's one of the reasons I haven't been back to WDW in years. Not that TWDC or anyone on these boards cares I haven't been back, but I'm sure there are at least 2 or 3 other people in this country who feel like I do.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You've confused me...
There was no park pass reservation system in place prior to the reopening.
The system was first put in place due to capacity restrictions.
At this point restrictions have been lifted but Disney initially said that they were going to gradually increase their capacity but honestly I think they no longer have limits but want the park pass system in place still in order to know the approximate number entering each park on any given day prior to the day of.
What did you have to do in September 2019? Not book a park pass reservation.
Yes sure you may have decided which park on which day based on park hours and FP+ availability but you were not required to.
You could have made FP+s for a park you intended to hop to later.
You could have made just 1-2 at the first park and then booked via your phone for another park after tapping in for the first one.
You could have also just done everything on the fly. Picked which park the day of and got a FP+ then hopped and done the same then hopped and done the same all day.

Maybe I don't understand then because when I went in 2019 once I bought my tickets based on a date I had to decide what park I wanted to go in first, decide on the day and only then could I reserve a fastpass for the park that I wanted to go too. At that point there were no Covid restrictions so there probably was no desire for Disney to say no to anyone. That to me was park reservations. In order to get my FP+ I had to tell them what park I wanted to go to first. Different parameters for sure, until Covid became the factor, but that was to stay within those guidelines of attendance crowds. Something that they didn't have to do at the time, but really could have at any point by making nothing available for that park on the day requested.

Since you, or someone said that they aren't stopping anyone now like they did when Covid dictated, than it is back to normal. You still have to decide what park you want well before getting there. It is possible that they might use it to prevent overcrowding in specific parks now that they have a system in place, but it is not a new thing, it just didn't have an official name before.

 

[nickys]

Maybe I don't understand then because when I went in 2019 once I bought my tickets based on a date I had to decide what park I wanted to go in first, decide on the day and only then could I reserve a fastpass for the park that I wanted to go too. At that point there were no Covid restrictions so there probably was no desire for Disney to say no to anyone. That to me was park reservations. In order to get my FP+ I had to tell them what park I wanted to go to first. Different parameters for sure, until Covid became the factor, but that was to stay within those guidelines of attendance crowds. Something that they didn't have to do at the time, but really could have at any point by making nothing available for that park on the day requested.

Since you, or someone said that they aren't stopping anyone now like they did when Covid dictated, than it is back to normal. You still have to decide what park you want well before getting there. It is possible that they might use it to prevent overcrowding in specific parks now that they have a system in place, but it is not a new thing, it just didn't have an official name before.

OK now I see what you mean.

To book FP+ you had to select the park first, then the ride and then the time. That was the actual booking process. You could then book up to three Fps in the same park in advance.

But you did not have to do that if you chose not to. You could turn up on the day and go to any park and then book your Fastpasses. Some people did that for sure.

Woth the park reservation system you must book a park in advance. Now that can be as you arrive in a parking lot, subject to availability, but the park you want to go to might be full. That rarely happened before.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So, I'm gonna complain about this the same way I complain about FP+. Sorry in advance to those who don't agree, but not everyone who visits WDW loves to plan every step we walk weeks in advance. Sometimes you wanna see how you feel about your next day at Disney. I can't tell you how many times we planned out the trip... MK on these two days, Epcot on another two, DHS on yet two others, and AK on the last remaining day, in whatever order. It's not so much the planning part, but the lack of flexibility. So, when I planned the vacation 2 months ago, I thought I wanted to do Epcot on the Day 2, but we decided to jump from MK to Epcot in the evening for dinner on Day 1, so now we want to do DHS on Day 2 and push Epcot back a day. That kind of spontaneity is no longer possible at WDW and still be able to experience most of the attractions.

A reservation system and FP+ make it IMPOSSIBLE to be spontaneous. What fun is that? It's a vacation that you're spending enough to purchase a car. The least they can do is allow you to enjoy it rather make it feel like work. For work I realize meetings are scheduled ahead of time, but even then you have to be flexible when your boss wants to meet tomorrow at 9am or whatever. Why is it for vacation you have to be on a strict schedule all the time. It sucks. It might be great for folks who are OCD about planning out every second of every day, but for many it makes it far less enjoyable. It's one of the reasons I haven't been back to WDW in years. Not that TWDC or anyone on these boards cares I haven't been back, but I'm sure there are at least 2 or 3 other people in this country who feel like I do.

I agree with everything you said. The original FP, even though I used it because I had too, was allowing more spontaneous touring the FP+, it still made you spend a lot more time figuring what you wanted to see, running around trying to get FP's for them, spending time then figuring out what one to go for once you found out that the specific FP you wanted was no longer available, Even having to commit to being hungry at a specific time if you wanted to sit and relax while you ate. That is why I don't spend a whole day at a single park anymore. I have been so many times that I know what interests me the most that that is what I focus on. Once I have accomplish, at least, most of that list, I move on to another park to see my favorites there. It's not just OCD because they at least get pleasure out of planning but the biggest enemy of spontaneous fun would be the Type A personality that run through life and bypass all the roses. But they are the strongest personality, most vocal and most likely to push their agenda of marathon vacations. I still fight it, but I'm not an idiot, as long as FP exists, in any form except paid, I will have to use it just to level the playing field.

 

[Goofyernmost]

OK now I see what you mean.

To book FP+ you had to select the park first, then the ride and then the time. That was the actual booking process. You could then book up to three Fps in the same park in advance.

But you did not have to do that if you chose not to. You could turn up on the day and go to any park and then book your Fastpasses. Some people did that for sure.

Woth the park reservation system you must book a park in advance. Now that can be as you arrive in a parking lot, subject to availability, but the park you want to go to might be full. That rarely happened before.

Yes, but how likely are you to get a FP that is not worth running to see? How can they prevent someone from still walking up and buying a ticket on any single day. If they have a magical number that they are limiting all they have to do is say... sorry sold out. If not, it's have a wonderful time standing in forced long lines and a few next to worthless FP's.

 

[castlecake2.0]

So, I'm gonna complain about this the same way I complain about FP+. Sorry in advance to those who don't agree, but not everyone who visits WDW loves to plan every step we walk weeks in advance. Sometimes you wanna see how you feel about your next day at Disney. I can't tell you how many times we planned out the trip... MK on these two days, Epcot on another two, DHS on yet two others, and AK on the last remaining day, in whatever order. It's not so much the planning part, but the lack of flexibility. So, when I planned the vacation 2 months ago, I thought I wanted to do Epcot on the Day 2, but we decided to jump from MK to Epcot in the evening for dinner on Day 1, so now we want to do DHS on Day 2 and push Epcot back a day. That kind of spontaneity is no longer possible at WDW and still be able to experience most of the attractions.

A reservation system and FP+ make it IMPOSSIBLE to be spontaneous. What fun is that? It's a vacation that you're spending enough to purchase a car. The least they can do is allow you to enjoy it rather make it feel like work. For work I realize meetings are scheduled ahead of time, but even then you have to be flexible when your boss wants to meet tomorrow at 9am or whatever. Why is it for vacation you have to be on a strict schedule all the time. It sucks. It might be great for folks who are OCD about planning out every second of every day, but for many it makes it far less enjoyable. It's one of the reasons I haven't been back to WDW in years. Not that TWDC or anyone on these boards cares I haven't been back, but I'm sure there are at least 2 or 3 other people in this country who feel like I do.

I see what you’re saying, but Eventually with the amount of people visiting the parks and what the parks can safely and operationally handle, it was inevitable something like this would happen. Saying that, as capacity increases it’s getting easier and easier to make a park pass the day off. I’ve done it multiple times the last few weeks. Id also rather find out before getting to the turnstile that the park is currently full. It’s just like booking a hotel, a restaurant, or a plane ticket.

 

[The_Jobu]

They're doing park reservations because it tells them how many people expect to visit a park on a given day, so they can adjust staffing and attraction capacity to the precise levels Disney prefers. In short, it saves Disney money and has nothing to do with capacity at this point.

We can really just close the thread now after this post.

 

[phillip9698]

Also keep in mind Disney is not running the attractions to fill capacity and many entertainment options are not running. So even with fewer people in the parks it can feel crowded.

Disney has a sweet spot number for wait times and they can perform a lot of manipulation to ensure the rides stay in that range whether the park is at 35% capacity or 75%.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

I see what you’re saying, but Eventually with the amount of people visiting the parks and what the parks can safely and operationally handle, it was inevitable something like this would happen. Saying that, as capacity increases it’s getting easier and easier to make a park pass the day off. I’ve done it multiple times the last few weeks. Id also rather find out before getting to the turnstile that the park is currently full. It’s just like booking a hotel, a restaurant, or a plane ticket.

I agree with this premise if capacity was being extremely restricted, but what I'm reading in this thread by those who've quoted numbers is that the parks aren't touching capacity, and even pre-pandemic weren't near actual capacity. If it's about strict adherence to restricted capacity, I'm on board, but that's really not what this is from what I'm reading here. It appears to be penny pinching in the name of COVID, and I fear that if they allow us to get use to it, this will be the new normal. If that's the case, I honestly don't see ever returning just due to the fact that everything has to be planned and adhered to as if a German train conductor was looking over your shoulder. That's not magical or fun.

 

[castlecake2.0]

I agree with this premise if capacity was being extremely restricted, but what I'm reading in this thread by those who've quoted numbers is that the parks aren't touching capacity, and even pre-pandemic weren't near actual capacity. If it's about strict adherence to restricted capacity, I'm on board, but that's really not what this is from what I'm reading here. It appears to be penny pinching in the name of COVID, and I fear that if they allow us to get use to it, this will be the new normal. If that's the case, I honestly don't see ever returning just due to the fact that everything has to be planned and adhered to as if a German train conductor was looking over your shoulder. That's not magical or fun.

It’s definitely data driven, though not necessarily to cut costs. A lot of labor is based on attendance projections. With more data about potential attendance they can schedule better. Before this they used FP reservations to get that data, and before that they used restaurant reservations. It’s likely most of the year you’ll be able to make a reservation day of, but a lot of people will still book ahead while planning their trip and give them the data they’re looking for. I agree that you don’t want to make the trip too stressful. I’m not sure what FP will look like going forward, but I’d much rather book a park for the day than the old FP headache.

 

[ppete1975]

So, I'm gonna complain about this the same way I complain about FP+. Sorry in advance to those who don't agree, but not everyone who visits WDW loves to plan every step we walk weeks in advance. Sometimes you wanna see how you feel about your next day at Disney. I can't tell you how many times we planned out the trip... MK on these two days, Epcot on another two, DHS on yet two others, and AK on the last remaining day, in whatever order. It's not so much the planning part, but the lack of flexibility. So, when I planned the vacation 2 months ago, I thought I wanted to do Epcot on the Day 2, but we decided to jump from MK to Epcot in the evening for dinner on Day 1, so now we want to do DHS on Day 2 and push Epcot back a day. That kind of spontaneity is no longer possible at WDW and still be able to experience most of the attractions.

A reservation system and FP+ make it IMPOSSIBLE to be spontaneous. What fun is that? It's a vacation that you're spending enough to purchase a car. The least they can do is allow you to enjoy it rather make it feel like work. For work I realize meetings are scheduled ahead of time, but even then you have to be flexible when your boss wants to meet tomorrow at 9am or whatever. Why is it for vacation you have to be on a strict schedule all the time. It sucks. It might be great for folks who are OCD about planning out every second of every day, but for many it makes it far less enjoyable. It's one of the reasons I haven't been back to WDW in years. Not that TWDC or anyone on these boards cares I haven't been back, but I'm sure there are at least 2 or 3 other people in this country who feel like I do.

florida hasnt been for the on the whim traveler for years. I am the same way. And it used to be food reservations, then fast passes, now park reservations. you honestly have to schedule your trip 3 months before you go. It destroys the spontaneity and for me a percentage of my enjoyment

 

[Goofyernmost]

OK now I see what you mean.

To book FP+ you had to select the park first, then the ride and then the time. That was the actual booking process. You could then book up to three Fps in the same park in advance.

But you did not have to do that if you chose not to. You could turn up on the day and go to any park and then book your Fastpasses. Some people did that for sure.

Woth the park reservation system you must book a park in advance. Now that can be as you arrive in a parking lot, subject to availability, but the park you want to go to might be full. That rarely happened before.

And I think that it will rarely happen again as soon as all of Covid is just history. But, that means that nothing is really different than it was under the FP+ system. If they did shut down a park it was for a major holiday like New Years Eve. And even then it didn't happen all the time and it won't happen again once Disney's lawyers feel that the threat of lawsuits are gone. It is no different unless they routinely say no to anyone, other than that it is pretty much exactly the same. I don't see them ever saying no to a paying customer guest. If a guy drives up with family in tow, there will be no live repeat of the Griswold's at Wally World.

 

[Goofyernmost]

florida hasnt been for the on the whim traveler for years. I am the same way. And it used to be food reservations, then fast passes, now park reservations. you honestly have to schedule your trip 3 months before you go. It destroys the spontaneity and for me a percentage of my enjoyment

Still not sure how that is any different over the last 10 years. It is nothing new and has been happening under a different name. If you are going to ADR restaurants in Epcot 60 or more days out, you are going to have to reserve your pack the very same day or pay extra for a park hopper. Or even if, like me, I stay offsite, if you want a chance at a good FP 30 days out, you will be reserving the park you're going to attend to do so. Like I said before, they just didn't have a name for that part of it before. It was just a procedure needed to get the precious FP's. Since they have identified that part of the process with an official sounding name now, they have given themselves a way to direct people to another park by just saying that the park you want is fully reserved already. You can't prove it's not full. I still maintain that after all has settled down, it will not be used often other then to direct traffic from MK or DHS if necessary. If you are driving in and want to purchase a day ticket there will be signage and closed parking lots so you never will even get to the park itself. They always could do that but now they have a name for it.

 

[JAB]

Still not sure how that is any different over the last 10 years. It is nothing new and has been happening under a different name. If you are going to ADR restaurants in Epcot 60 or more days out, you are going to have to reserve your pack the very same day or pay extra for a park hopper. Or even if, like me, I stay offsite, if you want a chance at a good FP 30 days out, you will be reserving the park you're going to attend to do so. Like I said before, they just didn't have a name for that part of it before. It was just a procedure needed to get the precious FP's. Since they have identified that part of the process with an official sounding name now, they have given themselves a way to direct people to another park by just saying that the park you want is fully reserved already. You can't prove it's not full. I still maintain that after all has settled down, it will not be used often other then to direct traffic from MK or DHS if necessary. If you are driving in and want to purchase a day ticket there will be signage and closed parking lots so you never will even get to the park itself. They always could do that but now they have a name for it.

It's not fundamentally different for many WDW guests (specifically non-locals who only visit one park per day, plan well in advance, and don't change that plan), but that doesn't mean it's not different for many others.

For those "spontaneous" types who prefer not to plan ahead, or those who need to change their plan last minute, the Park Pass system is less flexible. Previously, park capacity was essentially one big bucket, so with the exception of the top 3 or 4 busiest days of the year, guests could easily decide to go to a different park day-of. However, with the new system, capacity is now divided between three pools (APs, on-property resort guests, and everyone else), so a park could still have availability, but you might not be able to make a day-of reservation because there are no more available reservations in your particular pool. Also, a big difference between then and now for the non-planners is that you didn't have to make FP+ reservations to get into a park, so for a few people I know who didn't even bother with FP+, and were used to just showing up to a park, not being able to even get into a park without a reservation feels restrictive to them.

People with park hoppers could previously reserve afternoon FP+ for one park, but then rope drop a different park in the morning, and then head to their "reserved" park to use their FPs, which made it possible to tour parks more efficiently. With Park Pass reservations, you have to go to your reserved park first, and can't hop until 2PM. So if FP returns while the Park Pass requirements are still in place, this strategy would likely not be possible.

Annual passholders are probably most affected by the new reservation system. They can only reserve 3 days at a time, so local APs can't visit any time they want and just pop into a park on a whim like they could before. They now might need to plan their visits in advance, and they can't visit any parks while they have 3 outstanding reservations; so if, for example, they have guests coming into town, and to be safe, they reserve their 3 days months in advance, until the date of their reservations, they wouldn't be able to visit the parks at all. Out of state APs are potentially very much affected by the Park Pass system as well. While APs can reserve park days for their entire trip in advance if they are staying at an on-property resort, unfortunately, APs who are staying off-property can only reserve the first 3 days of their trip in advance, and then have to reserve the rest of their parks day-to-day during their trip at which time availability might possibly be gone. So for those people, the Park Pass reservation system is a significant change from how they were able to schedule their trips before.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It's not fundamentally different for many WDW guests (specifically non-locals who only visit one park per day, plan well in advance, and don't change that plan), but that doesn't mean it's not different for many others.

For those "spontaneous" types who prefer not to plan ahead, or those who need to change their plan last minute, the Park Pass system is less flexible. Previously, park capacity was essentially one big bucket, so with the exception of the top 3 or 4 busiest days of the year, guests could easily decide to go to a different park day-of. However, with the new system, capacity is now divided between three pools (APs, on-property resort guests, and everyone else), so a park could still have availability, but you might not be able to make a day-of reservation because there are no more available reservations in your particular pool. Also, a big difference between then and now for the non-planners is that you didn't have to make FP+ reservations to get into a park, so for a few people I know who didn't even bother with FP+, and were used to just showing up to a park, not being able to even get into a park without a reservation feels restrictive to them.

People with park hoppers could previously reserve afternoon FP+ for one park, but then rope drop a different park in the morning, and then head to their "reserved" park to use their FPs, which made it possible to tour parks more efficiently. With Park Pass reservations, you have to go to your reserved park first, and can't hop until 2PM. So if FP returns while the Park Pass requirements are still in place, this strategy would likely not be possible.

Annual passholders are probably most affected by the new reservation system. They can only reserve 3 days at a time, so local APs can't visit any time they want and just pop into a park on a whim like they could before. They now might need to plan their visits in advance, and they can't visit any parks while they have 3 outstanding reservations; so if, for example, they have guests coming into town, and to be safe, they reserve their 3 days months in advance, until the date of their reservations, they wouldn't be able to visit the parks at all. Out of state APs are potentially very much affected by the Park Pass system as well. While APs can reserve park days for their entire trip in advance if they are staying at an on-property resort, unfortunately, APs who are staying off-property can only reserve the first 3 days of their trip in advance, and then have to reserve the rest of their parks day-to-day during their trip at which time availability might possibly be gone. So for those people, the Park Pass reservation system is a significant change from how they were able to schedule their trips before.

I understand what you are saying, but still disagree. I think that the definition of spontaneous is different for everyone. I stated my visiting in 1983. All that existed at the time was MK and EPCOT (just opened). That was pure spontaneity. You bought a ticket, mine was through a travel agent, went any day it was open, at any time. No such thing as a Fastpass. No such thing as ADR's You used the computer kiosks to make a dining reservation after you arrived. Plus all the quick dining establishments in each park where open. The ticket were called Passports which meant go to either park whenever you felt like it. Hope on the monorail to EPCOT and then return to MK if you wanted too. Actually you might have to because if you stayed offsite like I did, you had to return to wherever you had parked when you got there.

Even the paper FP's gave the same spontaneity as before except there were more parks and they were hard to get any really good ones unless you arrived at the crack of dawn and got to your favorite ride kiosk before it ran out. Then you were obligated to run back and forth to kiosks once your window time was done or you used it. It was more difficult to get into restaurants and that was probably because they started closing down the large quick service areas both in MK and EPCOT. So you did have to spend time finding whatever nourishment you could. Also the standby lines became a longer wait.

Then along came FP+ and ALL SPONTANEITY went out the window. So from that point on I had to plan which park by choosing my Fastpasses. Now they just ask what park first. No difference that I can see.

 

[Ayla]

So, I'm gonna complain about this the same way I complain about FP+. Sorry in advance to those who don't agree, but not everyone who visits WDW loves to plan every step we walk weeks in advance. Sometimes you wanna see how you feel about your next day at Disney. I can't tell you how many times we planned out the trip... MK on these two days, Epcot on another two, DHS on yet two others, and AK on the last remaining day, in whatever order. It's not so much the planning part, but the lack of flexibility. So, when I planned the vacation 2 months ago, I thought I wanted to do Epcot on the Day 2, but we decided to jump from MK to Epcot in the evening for dinner on Day 1, so now we want to do DHS on Day 2 and push Epcot back a day. That kind of spontaneity is no longer possible at WDW and still be able to experience most of the attractions.

A reservation system and FP+ make it IMPOSSIBLE to be spontaneous. What fun is that? It's a vacation that you're spending enough to purchase a car. The least they can do is allow you to enjoy it rather make it feel like work. For work I realize meetings are scheduled ahead of time, but even then you have to be flexible when your boss wants to meet tomorrow at 9am or whatever. Why is it for vacation you have to be on a strict schedule all the time. It sucks. It might be great for folks who are OCD about planning out every second of every day, but for many it makes it far less enjoyable. It's one of the reasons I haven't been back to WDW in years. Not that TWDC or anyone on these boards cares I haven't been back, but I'm sure there are at least 2 or 3 other people in this country who feel like I do.

I completely agree with you. Losing that flexibility and spontaneity is yet another strike against Disney.

 

[Ayla]

Maybe I don't understand then because when I went in 2019 once I bought my tickets based on a date I had to decide what park I wanted to go in first, decide on the day and only then could I reserve a fastpass for the park that I wanted to go too. At that point there were no Covid restrictions so there probably was no desire for Disney to say no to anyone. That to me was park reservations. In order to get my FP+ I had to tell them what park I wanted to go to first. Different parameters for sure, until Covid became the factor, but that was to stay within those guidelines of attendance crowds. Something that they didn't have to do at the time, but really could have at any point by making nothing available for that park on the day requested.

Since you, or someone said that they aren't stopping anyone now like they did when Covid dictated, than it is back to normal. You still have to decide what park you want well before getting there. It is possible that they might use it to prevent overcrowding in specific parks now that they have a system in place, but it is not a new thing, it just didn't have an official name before.

You are correct, FP+ was basically a park reservation system.

 

[Ayla]

I see what you’re saying, but Eventually with the amount of people visiting the parks and what the parks can safely and operationally handle, it was inevitable something like this would happen. Saying that, as capacity increases it’s getting easier and easier to make a park pass the day off. I’ve done it multiple times the last few weeks. Id also rather find out before getting to the turnstile that the park is currently full. It’s just like booking a hotel, a restaurant, or a plane ticket.

The park isn't full. There are only a handful of days per year MK is at capacity. Disney hasn't staffed it appropriately because it costs them money, therefore artificially lowering capacity limits.