Disney introduces Electric Standing Vehicles for guests with disabilities

[rct247]

Umm...I saw someone handicap get in front of space mountain last year...i can name others....your statement just isn't true...

Space Mountain regular standby line has stairs in it. If they were in a wheelchair/ECV/ESV, they would have to talk to a cast member working at Space Mountain to receive a return time to come back. They still have to wait the posted amount of time, but it is outside of the building and allows them to go do something else. Once the time is up, they enter through the Fastpass queue which is fully accessible. If they are in an ECV or ESV, they still have to take a manual wheelchair. Once they get to the "front of the line", they may still have to wait in a special wheelchair queue. Depending on how many other wheelchairs their are, they may actually have to wait 5-10 minutes since Space Mountain only wants a limited amount of wheelchair riders on the ride at a given time in cast there is a breakdown.

So, they don't just get to cut the line because they have a wheelchair. They just have to enter through an alternative entrance with an alternative wait time experience.

 

[DrewmanS]

Beg to differ,

I have built factories, drinking fountains needed to be of compliant construction, placed at an exact high off the floor, handicapped toilets and parking places, mirrors set at certain height off floor, elevator etc. Mind you, all positions for this company require full ambulatory function with no reasonable means of accommodation. This is an example of a private company that is not open to the public thus could be construed as "restricted" membership.

I have remodeled churches (whole separation of church/state argument) which when remodeled required the addition of elevators and all other retrofits to be ADA compliant.

I think we are agreeing. Yes, most places of employment have to be ADA compliant, so do churches. That was my point. Some people were saying private companies do not have to be compliant, that is not the case. There are exceptions for private residence and private clubs, but most places of business are considered "public" places by the ADA definition. Also, local building codes may require ADA compliance even if the business is not otherwise required.

 

[ASilmser]

Wow. . . . It's amazing how tolerant and understanding we are until we encounter something we can't tolerate .

There is absolutely NO WAY WDW is going to get into the muddy waters of trying to determine whose is actually "disabled" and who is not. What about someone who just gets tired easily? What about the guest who is in perfect shape, but has been nursing the hugest blisters on his or her feet because of all the walking they've been doing? What about the person who is in great shape but might come to WDW with a sore knee or shin splints? These are people who wouldn't have a handicapped license plate or a permanent ID, but may, on any given day, need a ECV. These are just a few examples of the MANY that pop up for a guest who does the amount of walking in the HOT HUMID weather of Orlando on an average WDW trip. Each person has a different story, and we may think some are more legit than others, but it would be stupid of Disney to start trying to come up with a policy to judge who does and does not have a "real" reason for using an ECV.

In the past, these people would have to stay in their hotel rooms or didn't even bother to come to Disney World. Those who can't put up with the ECV's might be thinking, "good! keep all those people out of the parks so that my day isn't ruined by the crazy carts!" But that, it seems to me, is NOT what Disney World is all about (speaking of what Disney is all about. . . those people staying away also represent a serious loss of revenue for Disney).

The biggest complaint I have about the ECV's is that they are big. They take up a lot of space and aren't maneuverable when there are large crowds. The other thing is that people tend not to see the rider, who is below eye level, until they are right in front of him or her. The rider can't see anything except the rear ends and backs of the people in front of him or her. There are a lot of adults and kids who dart in front of and around the cart and endanger themselves and their children in the process. There are also a lot of riders who don't know how to "drive" in a crowd (or out in the open for that matter). I would think that the stand-up ones would at least help with this situation. It would make them less cumbersome and help with visibility. Replacing a bunch of the "sidewalk yachts" with a scooter that has a much smaller footprint would go a long way toward reducing some of the problems that arise from the ECV use.

I don't like it when people abuse the system, but my guess is that people DON'T abuse the ECV's as often we might think. They are not particularly fun to use. There is not really a benefit to having them unless you can't function in the parks without them. If you're going to go to Disney World, you should know that having one of those things is a logistical pain unless you really need it. If you don't know this, you will quickly learn. Disney is wise to just offer them for rent and leave it at that. They are also wise to now offer vehicles with a smaller "footprint" and easier line of sight for the rider.

At the risk of sounding preachy, I'd say that as a regular walking guest, you should also be able to put up with them. Recognize that while they can be a nuisance, they are part of the deal. It's like saying they should do away with strollers. It's not going to happen, so spending time trying to wish it would is crazy. Besides, even if we are blessed with good health, we are all just twisted ankle away from needing one. In a relatively small number of years, simply because of age, even those of us who are injury free may need one just to keep from over-exerting ourselves and needing another cumbersome and disruptive vehicle at WDW--the ambulance.

Thank goodness they exist--otherwise we'd be stuck at home.

 

[Prock3]

Umm...I saw someone handicap get in front of space mountain last year...i can name others....your statement just isn't true...

My statement is true, I've had a lot of experience with guests in wheelchairs and ECV's, if they go to the front of the line its because either the standby line isn't wheelchair accessible or because they have the appropriate GAC. If the line isn't wheelchair accessible then they are asked to return after waiting the current wait time of the standby line, a wheelchair or ECV will almost NEVER get you to the front of the line, you have to have the appropriate GAC.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Wow. . . . It's amazing how tolerant and understanding we are until we encounter something we can't tolerate .

There is absolutely NO WAY WDW is going to get into the muddy waters of trying to determine whose is actually "disabled" and who is not. What about someone who just gets tired easily? What about the guest who is in perfect shape, but has been nursing the hugest blisters on his or her feet because of all the walking they've been doing? What about the person who is in great shape but might come to WDW with a sore knee or shin splints? These are people who wouldn't have a handicapped license plate or a permanent ID, but may, on any given day, need a ECV. These are just a few examples of the MANY that pop up for a guest who does the amount of walking in the HOT HUMID weather of Orlando on an average WDW trip. Each person has a different story, and we may think some are more legit than others, but it would be stupid of Disney to start trying to come up with a policy to judge who does and does not have a "real" reason for using an ECV.

In the past, these people would have to stay in their hotel rooms or didn't even bother to come to Disney World. Those who can't put up with the ECV's might be thinking, "good! keep all those people out of the parks so that my day isn't ruined by the crazy carts!" But that, it seems to me, is NOT what Disney World is all about (speaking of what Disney is all about. . . those people staying away also represent a serious loss of revenue for Disney).

The biggest complaint I have about the ECV's is that they are big. They take up a lot of space and aren't maneuverable when there are large crowds. The other thing is that people tend not to see the rider, who is below eye level, until they are right in front of him or her. The rider can't see anything except the rear ends and backs of the people in front of him or her. There are a lot of adults and kids who dart in front of and around the cart and endanger themselves and their children in the process. There are also a lot of riders who don't know how to "drive" in a crowd (or out in the open for that matter). I would think that the stand-up ones would at least help with this situation. It would make them less cumbersome and help with visibility. Replacing a bunch of the "sidewalk yachts" with a scooter that has a much smaller footprint would go a long way toward reducing some of the problems that arise from the ECV use.

I don't like it when people abuse the system, but my guess is that people DON'T abuse the ECV's as often we might think. They are not particularly fun to use. There is not really a benefit to having them unless you can't function in the parks without them. If you're going to go to Disney World, you should know that having one of those things is a logistical pain unless you really need it. If you don't know this, you will quickly learn. Disney is wise to just offer them for rent and leave it at that. They are also wise to now offer vehicles with a smaller "footprint" and easier line of sight for the rider.

At the risk of sounding preachy, I'd say that as a regular walking guest, you should also be able to put up with them. Recognize that while they can be a nuisance, they are part of the deal. It's like saying they should do away with strollers. It's not going to happen, so spending time trying to wish it would is crazy. Besides, even if we are blessed with good health, we are all just twisted ankle away from needing one. In a relatively small number of years, simply because of age, even those of us who are injury free may need one just to keep from over-exerting ourselves and needing another cumbersome and disruptive vehicle at WDW--the ambulance.

Thank goodness they exist--otherwise we'd be stuck at home.

That came home to me really hard back about three years ago. I was going down a flight of stairs carrying a number of items in each hand. I misjudged the location of a stair and became a flying object landing on a concrete floor on my right knee. In that split second, I completely tore my quad muscle and along with it some much needed nerve endings. In that split second, I went from able to walk, run, jump, climb stairs, descend stairs to a permanent disability which now has me able to walk (thankfully), climb and descend stairways, but not without hanging on to something real tightly as my right leg no longer sends signals to my brain telling it that I am bending my knee. Unless, I'm concentrating, my knee will pop right out in front of me, causing me to lose my balance and repeat the injury. If you watched me walk in a straight line or fairly level area you would never suspect that any problem existed.

I'm telling this story, because, I shiver whenever I hear someone being critical of someone in a wheelchair or on a scooter. It only takes a split second to put anyone of us in exactly the same place. And if Karma can be believed, we are setting ourselves up for it. I can function now without a scooter or chair, but the first year after I had the injury, I would not have been able to negotiate WDW without assistance. We all need to be a whole lot more tolerant and a whole lot less judgmental about things we know nothing about.

I also have to agree that using a scooter may seem like a cool way to tour a place like WDW, but I'm here to tell you that it is way more hassle then it is worth. Way more! There really is no benefit at all other then feet that are less sore at the end of the day. I'll take walking any day.

 

[mickeysbrother]

Im gonna pay 50 bucks one day just to take a break from walking.

We all know that by the 7th day of running around all you want to do is highjack one of the scooters of someone that doesnt need them because they have been sitting for a whole week.

 

[LucyK]

You should have to sign a document stating that you and you alone are responsible for any accidents that happens if you were to drink and drive one of these things. I agree with a past poster who said this is worse than the standard EVCs and will cause more trouble for children and other guests. They'll be looking up and not where they are going. I can already see the amount of "I gotta run over by a standing EVC" threads that are going to pop up from now on.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

My statement is true, I've had a lot of experience with guests in wheelchairs and ECV's, if they go to the front of the line its because either the standby line isn't wheelchair accessible or because they have the appropriate GAC. If the line isn't wheelchair accessible then they are asked to return after waiting the current wait time of the standby line, a wheelchair or ECV will almost NEVER get you to the front of the line, you have to have the appropriate GAC.

This is correct. The only font of the line pass is for *Make a wish* kids.

 

[breakin2]

I think they should have jousting competitions among the ECV users. I'd watch that over a new parade.

 

[MissM]

I did not read all 8 pages. BUT, I saw one of these being used in MK last night. It was a woman riding it. She was standing up just as described with a pad to lean against. It was a beige kinda color. I saw her around the Pooh attraction. We were walking and she rode past. It wasn't very fast and it definitely gives a much better view since, unlike the scooters, you can clearly see the person coming at you and they can see around the crowds like anyone else walking. It was a small machine (smaller then scooters for sure) but still "chunky" in terms of it looked more substantial then a Segway.

Didn't get a pic because (a) it surprised the heck out of me and (b) didn't want to be rude. But they're already in active use!

 

[R W B]

Wow, never seen so many adults complain about something so "silly". Now I personally don't need one but if I'm willing to fork out $50 a day, who are you to say anything about it?

Now I'm not sure why Disney is adding these because I don't think many handicap people would choose this over a wheel chair so that tends to make me think it has something to do with the Seg-Ways, I could be totally wrong though.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Wow, never seen so many adults complain about something so "silly". Now I personally don't need one but if I'm willing to fork out $50 a day, who are you to say anything about it?

Now I'm not sure why Disney is adding these because I don't think many handicap people would choose this over a wheel chair so that tends to make me think it has something to do with the Seg-Ways, I could be totally wrong though.

That is exactly why they introduced them. They feel that Segways present a massive liability risk in the parks and this is the acceptable alternative. They are ugly, uncomfortable and will, therefore, be used by people that need them for mobility issues and not because it is fun or cool to do.

 

[Lord_Vader]

Space Mountain regular standby line has stairs in it. If they were in a wheelchair/ECV/ESV, they would have to talk to a cast member working at Space Mountain to receive a return time to come back. They still have to wait the posted amount of time, but it is outside of the building and allows them to go do something else. Once the time is up, they enter through the Fastpass queue which is fully accessible. If they are in an ECV or ESV, they still have to take a manual wheelchair. Once they get to the "front of the line", they may still have to wait in a special wheelchair queue. Depending on how many other wheelchairs their are, they may actually have to wait 5-10 minutes since Space Mountain only wants a limited amount of wheelchair riders on the ride at a given time in cast there is a breakdown.

So, they don't just get to cut the line because they have a wheelchair. They just have to enter through an alternative entrance with an alternative wait time experience.

Well stated!

 

[rct247]

The ESV seen at Magic Kingdom yesterday was a paid auditor going around testing attraction cast members since they are new.

Some new info on the ESV. Each park currently only has 2 available and really they are only being issued as a trade out for those that bring a Segway or similar non-approved ESV to the park. They can keep/park their non-approved Segway and pay a $50 deposit (that they will get back) for one to use while in the park. From my understanding, any regular park guests will not be able to rent this model. It is purely for those that need to trade theirs out or have called in advance to make arrangements. This is why there are only 2 in each park. They don't expect there to be much demand. It is primarily available per an agreement to the Segway lawsuit years ago. So, if you do see this in the park, the user will most likely have a very valid reason for using it, versus perhaps some ECV users who rent them purely because the are lazy.

 

[GenerationX]

The ESV seen at Magic Kingdom yesterday was a paid auditor going around testing attraction cast members since they are new.

Some new info on the ESV. Each park currently only has 2 available and really they are only being issued as a trade out for those that bring a Segway or similar non-approved ESV to the park. They can keep/park their non-approved Segway and pay a $50 deposit (that they will get back) for one to use while in the park. From my understanding, any regular park guests will not be able to rent this model. It is purely for those that need to trade theirs out or have called in advance to make arrangements. This is why there are only 2 in each park. They don't expect there to be much demand. It is primarily available per an agreement to the Segway lawsuit years ago. So, if you do see this in the park, the user will most likely have a very valid reason for using it, versus perhaps some ECV users who rent them purely because the are lazy.

Rendering 9 pages of posts moot.

 

[nytimez]

Rendering 9 pages of posts moot.

On the other hand, it makes the jousting idea mentioned on the previous page much more do-able. Only two in each park? Mostly sitting around unused? Sounds like the perfect opportunity.

Two ECVs enter, one ECV leaves!

 

[joanna71985]

I saw one of the ESVs today at Epcot. It did not look very comfortable

 

[flynnibus]

Wow.. I'm amazed by the amount of misinformation and misunderstanding in this thread.

First.. I'm amazed by how many people have forgotten about the Segway Lawsuits already. The standing ECV was part of the settlement. In short.. Disney argued Segways were unsafe in the crowded parks and shouldn't be allowed for general use - and as an alternative they would design and provide a powered device that allowed for standing.

Why standing? The case was brought by individuals who argued Segways were their medically necessary accomodations because they had disabilities that prevented them from sitting for long periods.. and that is why they used a Segway and not an ECV.

It does NOT require private businesses to provide, or make available for rent, any motorized transportation or medical equipment to guests who do not already own their own assistive devices. While I totally support the ADA and its promise of accessibility and accommodation to those who need it, why Disney is taking the affirmative step of introducing faster and more dangerous assistive devices to its parks -- when they know they must rent them on demand to anyone who asks -- is beyond me.

Simply put.. it was their way of supporting their bans on Segways. They argued Segways were unsafe, and the other parties argued they were necessary because they needed to stand.. so Disney offered a 'reasonable accommodation' of a standing powered device they felt was safe to operate in the parks. Its part of offering an accommodation without excluding the people with that type of disability.

If that's the vehicle? I'm really trying to figure out who would want it... someone disabled would HAVE to stand, and any WALL-E Characters would probably find it WAY too much work . I'm trying to figure out WHO this is for?

People with a disability that they find it easier to stand, then sit for the extended periods. It's very much a specific type of disability that argued why they needed the Segways.

Huh? Weird, I know I'm not American but that kinda seems stupid of the American legal system to state that private land which houses a resort complex which requires you to buy a ticket to get into the private parks would be classed as public.

The problem here is the original copied text was from the ADA law - but in fact from the section specifically about government entities. However, the gist of the matter is no different. The proper term in this context is a 'public accommodation' - which is basically any business open to the public (to over simplify things).

Also confusing matters in this discussion is that there are different subsections of the ADA that each have their own standards. For example, the standards for Public Transportation are different than they are for a simple Private Entity providing Public Accommodations. Additionally, Government have their own definitions, etc.

Adding FURTHER complexity to the matter - while in general a business can't require documentation, there are instances where they can be more tight.. including Powered vehicles that aren't wheelchairs.

In short.. a Segway isn't a wheelchair.. and 'other power driven mobility devices' can be limited in use based on several factors.. and a business can require assurance the device is required. But the standard is so low and vague it doesn't really have much teeth to where a business could require say.. medical documentation.

And lastly - people need to get off this idea that HIPPA prevents you from asking about medical conditions - that completely UNRELATED to HIPPA. HIPPA is about restricting sharing of medical information without your consent and ensuring property security of said information. It in no way makes medical information 'off limits' or anything.

 

[jaklgreen]

Im gonna pay 50 bucks one day just to take a break from walking.

We all know that by the 7th day of running around all you want to do is highjack one of the scooters of someone that doesnt need them because they have been sitting for a whole week.

I must be in the minority, I love going to WDW because of all of the walking I do. I work in food and actually run my behind off all day, so just walking is actually a break for me. With all of the walking I do I actually feel really good when I go. I always see people who are tired and complain that their legs hurt and I am amazed that it is so physically hard for so many people to just be walking. And it is not even constant, you walk to a ride, sit down, get up walk to then next ride, sit down again, walk to lunch, sit and eat, etc, etc. If you need a break from walking WDW has a ton of benches for you to sit and rest on, I do not think it is always necessary to rent an ECV(those who rent usually go about their daily lives without one) just try taking it a bit slower and sit and rest more often. The walking exercise might make you feel better in the long run. That is what people did in the "old days" before they invented the ECV.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I must be in the minority, I love going to WDW because of all of the walking I do. I work in food and actually run my behind off all day, so just walking is actually a break for me. With all of the walking I do I actually feel really good when I go. I always see people who are tired and complain that their legs hurt and I am amazed that it is so physically hard for so many people to just be walking. And it is not even constant, you walk to a ride, sit down, get up walk to then next ride, sit down again, walk to lunch, sit and eat, etc, etc. If you need a break from walking WDW has a ton of benches for you to sit and rest on, I do not think it is always necessary to rent an ECV(those who rent usually go about their daily lives without one) just try taking it a bit slower and sit and rest more often. The walking exercise might make you feel better in the long run. That is what people did in the "old days" before they invented the ECV.

Not exactly! Those that needed something like an ECV before they were invented, just plain didn't go to a place like Disney because they would not have been able too. Think of it this way. I'm sure that there is abuse of the ECV connection but I don't think it is a big as everyone seems to think. My guess is that for every one person that doesn't really need one, there are 10 that do. Solution: Turn your head the other way, do not try to determine if that person really needs one or not and just take care of yourself and enjoy your experience in the Theme Park.