Disney guest chokes girl who was blocking view of fireworks, deputies say

[Otterhead]

FLAME ON - This is my opinion and I realize it is not going to be popular.

I have no issue at all with anything you've said here.
I think the issue people are raising is someone disciplining someone else's children at a Disney park, which quickly steps over a line. Physical discipline is the parents' job, not a stranger's.

 

[larryz]

I also believe in POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT. I have nannied for 25 years and my kids behaved better for me than for their birth Parents. I never lifted a finger to them that wasn't a pat or a hug. Say what you mean and do what you say you are going to do !!! Ex: John did his trombone practice - he gets a token, or a sticker star, or one single lego block from a kit. Kids who bath or go to bed with no fuss - get a small (10-50 cent) prize by their breakfast plate, sometimes, not always. Prizes are special, like bonuses at a grown-ups job.
FLAME ON - This is my opinion and I realize it is not going to be popular.

Dr Skinner would agree with you 100%.

 

[Minthorne]

I bet Vader choked his kids.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

Dr Skinner would agree with you 100%.

Aww Man !! you ferreted out my source !! Good on ya !!

If I was close enough - I would say "Here's LEGOS for you!! "

 

[jloucks]

I think we have gotten way off topic to a social discussion. Regardless of the cause, I think most people who visit the World regularly, would agree that the "behavior" of people in general, not just kids, has gotten out of hand. Blame the parks, blame the bad parents, blame whatever may be the root cause for each individual, it is pretty evident. Several CMs we have spoken to have voiced the same observations. It is not just at the World, it is all over. But, when you put that many people in one place, things are bound to happen.
Sometimes it is pure misunderstanding. I observed a young lady with a service dog, obviously training as the dog had the harness and smock, a very pretty golden sitting just outside of the Merida M&G. Another woman came along with a Pomeranian, little dog, unmarked with the typical harness and smock, and proceeded to sit down a short distance away. The young lady with the Golden got upset saying that was not a service dog and she had no right to have them in the park. If she had known or asked, rather than saying loudly thats not a service dog and storming off angrily for no reason, she would know Pom-therapy IS indeed a valid service dog therapy. The dog is used to assist Diabetics, depressive personalities (anxiety), among many other things. Sometimes being ignorant and just reacting is easier than doing some homework or politely asking. Not every service dog is a Golden, Shepherd, Poodle etc.
On the flip side I will make one comment about the viewing of Once Upon a Time and Wishes. If you are in the Hub area directly between the statue and the castle, it slopes. If everyone there remains sitting, the view is amazing and even kids can see. MOST of the time I have noticed people in this area do remain seated, even though the hard cement can be a pain on the rear. But, in that specific area, being seated makes the most sense. In others, I am not so sure and standing tends to be the preference.

I have been directly involved with training service dogs. Service dogs must be trained to perform a certain task. They are well trained and worth a lot of money. Hundreds of hours go into the training. Therapy animals are not Service animals. They are not trained to perform a task. Presence does not equal training. I have never heard of a Pomeranian service dog. If it was in fact trained to detect low sugar and indicate such to it's owner, then that was a service dog. Otherwise, probably not.

Some more info about service dogs

• They are highly trained, expensive tools, and not pets.
• They are typically trained from birth by volunteers (not by the person to be receiving them)
• They have a high wash-out rate. Many don't make it to formal training and are put up for adoption.
• First trainers can buy the dog if they fall in love with it. ...for $12,000.
• They typically have a surprisingly short career. 5ish years for the seeing eye dogs in the program I was involved it.
• When they retire, they go back to the training source to be rehomed. ...sometimes to the original trainer.
• The dog vest will not be issued online for $49. It comes free with your $50,000 dog.

If any of the above are not true, you might not be dealing with a true service dog.

So why is everybody getting all sensitive about this topic? Because there is a TON of abuse concerning Service Dogs. The law is worded so that there is really nothing stopping anybody from slapping a vest on their dog and declaring the dog a service dog. People with legit dogs have to deal with illegitimate dogs out in public. And, to a lesser extent, people who dont like, or are allergic to, dogs having to deal with illegitimate dogs in public.

 

[AEfx]

I'm pretty sure its illegal for a lawyer to lie

Haha, good one, man. You should start a comedy routine.

You were making a hugely funny, absurd joke - right? You know, because they get paid to lie for a living and all.

 

[AEfx]

So why is everybody getting all sensitive about this topic? Because there is a TON of abuse concerning Service Dogs. The law is worded so that there is really nothing stopping anybody from slapping a vest on their dog and declaring the dog a service dog. People with legit dogs have to deal with illegitimate dogs out in public. And, to a lesser extent, people who dont like, or are allergic to, dogs having to deal with illegitimate dogs in public.

Finally, some sensible info.

It's true - just like a lot of things, crappy people take advantage of them. It's a new fad for the crowd that has to take their animals everywhere. You see people even joke about it with a wink - "oh this is my service animal". Yes, everyone (well, most everyone) feels warm and fuzzy in the presence of their pet - but that doesn't make it medically necessary. It's like people who use designated handicapped bathrooms or parking spots because they think it's no big deal, they deserve an exception, too.

This is why I wish they would amend the ADA and require some form of paperwork. The current version had good intentions re: privacy, but in practice there are just too many crappy people out there who will take advantage of accommodations. I often travel with a disabled person to WDW, and they would have zero problem presenting a doctor approved paper stating their issue/needs. With service animals, I'm actually surprised because of animal safety issues that it's not required to show written documentation. People who have a real, clinical disability already have plenty of paperwork, trust me - it's no skin off of their backs, it's only an issue for those that are crappy fakers who think they are special.

 

[jloucks]

Finally, some sensible info.

It's true - just like a lot of things, crappy people take advantage of them. It's a new fad for the crowd that has to take their animals everywhere. You see people even joke about it with a wink - "oh this is my service animal". Yes, everyone (well, most everyone) feels warm and fuzzy in the presence of their pet - but that doesn't make it medically necessary. It's like people who use designated handicapped bathrooms or parking spots because they think it's no big deal, they deserve an exception, too.

This is why I wish they would amend the ADA and require some form of paperwork. The current version had good intentions re: privacy, but in practice there are just too many crappy people out there who will take advantage of accommodations. I often travel with a disabled person to WDW, and they would have zero problem presenting a doctor approved paper stating their issue/needs. With service animals, I'm actually surprised because of animal safety issues that it's not required to show written documentation. People who have a real, clinical disability already have plenty of paperwork, trust me - it's no skin off of their backs, it's only an issue for those that are crappy fakers who think they are special.

Couldn't agree more. I do think they will eventually change the law to require proof of legitimacy. It doesn't need to be something that the handler has to "get out" and "present". It could just be a special numbered sticker on the vest.

 

[larryz]

Aww Man !! you ferreted out my source !! Good on ya !!

If I was close enough - I would say "Here's LEGOS for you!! "

Not necessary. I respond well, however, to ringing bells.

 

[larryz]

Finally, some sensible info.

It's true - just like a lot of things, crappy people take advantage of them. It's a new fad for the crowd that has to take their animals everywhere. You see people even joke about it with a wink - "oh this is my service animal". Yes, everyone (well, most everyone) feels warm and fuzzy in the presence of their pet - but that doesn't make it medically necessary. It's like people who use designated handicapped bathrooms or parking spots because they think it's no big deal, they deserve an exception, too.

This is why I wish they would amend the ADA and require some form of paperwork. The current version had good intentions re: privacy, but in practice there are just too many crappy people out there who will take advantage of accommodations. I often travel with a disabled person to WDW, and they would have zero problem presenting a doctor approved paper stating their issue/needs. With service animals, I'm actually surprised because of animal safety issues that it's not required to show written documentation. People who have a real, clinical disability already have plenty of paperwork, trust me - it's no skin off of their backs, it's only an issue for those that are crappy fakers who think they are special.

Agreed -- you can't get a Handicap Parking Spot tag without a note from your doctor, yet you can put an iguana in a service animal vest and take it EVERYWHERE with you... and nobody wants to risk an ADA lawsuit to challenge it.

 

[jloucks]

Agreed -- you can't get a Handicap Parking Spot tag without a note from your doctor, yet you can put an iguana in a service animal vest and take it EVERYWHERE with you... and nobody wants to risk an ADA lawsuit to challenge it.

Fun Fact - The only creatures that can be service animals are dogs and.....wait for it.... miniature ponies (I have no clue why ponies). You can kick out a service lizard, parrot, snake, pig, or monkey without any fear of ADA ramifications.100% guaranteed bogus.

But, I get your point, if you don't know this, you end up with a "service lizard" next to you at the movies.

 

[Captain Neo]

Haha, good one, man. You should start a comedy routine.

You were making a hugely funny, absurd joke - right? You know, because they get paid to lie for a living and all.

I was serious

 

[jaklgreen]

Finally, some sensible info.

It's true - just like a lot of things, crappy people take advantage of them. It's a new fad for the crowd that has to take their animals everywhere. You see people even joke about it with a wink - "oh this is my service animal". Yes, everyone (well, most everyone) feels warm and fuzzy in the presence of their pet - but that doesn't make it medically necessary. It's like people who use designated handicapped bathrooms or parking spots because they think it's no big deal, they deserve an exception, too.

This is why I wish they would amend the ADA and require some form of paperwork. The current version had good intentions re: privacy, but in practice there are just too many crappy people out there who will take advantage of accommodations. I often travel with a disabled person to WDW, and they would have zero problem presenting a doctor approved paper stating their issue/needs. With service animals, I'm actually surprised because of animal safety issues that it's not required to show written documentation. People who have a real, clinical disability already have plenty of paperwork, trust me - it's no skin off of their backs, it's only an issue for those that are crappy fakers who think they are special.

Wait, I have never seen a handicapped only restroom. I have seen the family bathrooms. Are you talking about the accessible stalls?

 

[AEfx]

Wait, I have never seen a handicapped only restroom. I have seen the family bathrooms. Are you talking about the accessible stalls?

There are no "family bathrooms" at WDW. Given how practically everyone is a "family" at WDW, that is why the standard restrooms are designed to be large and open as they are. There are designated companion bathrooms for people who require someone to assist them physically in order to use the bathroom. Unfortunately, people who do not know any better (or simply do not care) try to treat them as such. I'm thankful that I have seen CM's directing people away from them for this use. They either do not care or do not realize that someone with a disability does not have a choice of what bathroom to use, and parks have very few of them. Something similar happens with accessible stalls as well, where there are six or eight standard stalls, and one accessible, and people use the accessible stall even when the others are empty because "they just like more room".

 

[rob0519]

Something similar happens with accessible stalls as well, where there are six or eight standard stalls, and one accessible, and people use the accessible stall even when the others are empty because "they just like more room".

This is my peeve. We have an adult son who is physically and mentally handicapped and in a wheelchair. I push him into a men's room in any park and many times all the stalls are open EXCEPT the handicap accessible one. I generally roll the chair up against the wall as close as I can and tell my son in rather loud voice that he has to wait because someone else is using the toilet.

 

[AEfx]

This is my peeve. We have an adult son who is physically and mentally handicapped and in a wheelchair. I push him into a men's room in any park and many times all the stalls are open EXCEPT the handicap accessible one. I generally roll the chair up against the wall as close as I can and tell my son in rather loud voice that he has to wait because someone else is using the toilet.

My mom does something similar with my niece. She doesn't confront the person, but hopefully they think twice when they come out and see someone in a wheelchair who is waiting on them because they are using the only available place for them to use, when the able bodied person has six or eight other choices. I think a lot of it is just that people don't think, because at home/in stores/etc. they don't see people using them often and become kind of flippant about why they exist, like if it's open hey, you just got lucky, you get to use the more spacious stall. They just don't understand (or care) that some place like as busy as WDW that they are used frequently for their intention, and that those people only can use those bathrooms.

 

[larryz]

But, I get your point, if you don't know this, you end up with a "service lizard" next to you at the movies.

...or on an airplane...

And we all know how THIS movie ends...

 

[jaklgreen]

There are no "family bathrooms" at WDW. Given how practically everyone is a "family" at WDW, that is why the standard restrooms are designed to be large and open as they are. There are designated companion bathrooms for people who require someone to assist them physically in order to use the bathroom. Unfortunately, people who do not know any better (or simply do not care) try to treat them as such. I'm thankful that I have seen CM's directing people away from them for this use. They either do not care or do not realize that someone with a disability does not have a choice of what bathroom to use, and parks have very few of them. Something similar happens with accessible stalls as well, where there are six or eight standard stalls, and one accessible, and people use the accessible stall even when the others are empty because "they just like more room".

I think families can use the companion restrooms. Especially if the child needs assistance. I have seen way way too many boys that are much too old in the woman's restroom because the mom is too paranoid to let him use the men's. I rather have them use the companion room then bring their 10 year old son in the woman's where my daughters are. Besides you don't know what kind of assistance people need. They might not be in a wheelchair but might have an autistic kid they need to help for example. People might also have other physical limitations that make it very hard for them to use the tiny stalls in the woman's restroom. Heck, some of them you need to be a contortionist just to be able to get in and close the door.

 

[larryz]

I think families can use the companion restrooms. Especially if the child needs assistance. I have seen way way too many boys that are much too old in the woman's restroom because the mom is too paranoid to let him use the men's. I rather have them use the companion room then bring their 10 year old son in the woman's where my daughters are. Besides you don't know what kind of assistance people need. They might not be in a wheelchair but might have an autistic kid they need to help for example. People might also have other physical limitations that make it very hard for them to use the tiny stalls in the woman's restroom. Heck, some of them you need to be a contortionist just to be able to get in and close the door.

Not that I have any personal experience with the women's stalls at WDW, but I understand where you're coming from.

 

[AEfx]

I think families can use the companion restrooms. Especially if the child needs assistance. I have seen way way too many boys that are much too old in the woman's restroom because the mom is too paranoid to let him use the men's. I rather have them use the companion room then bring their 10 year old son in the woman's where my daughters are. Besides you don't know what kind of assistance people need. They might not be in a wheelchair but might have an autistic kid they need to help for example. People might also have other physical limitations that make it very hard for them to use the tiny stalls in the woman's restroom. Heck, some of them you need to be a contortionist just to be able to get in and close the door.

There is so much wrong with what you just said, but I don't have the time or inclination to argue all of it. They are clearly intended for people with physical disabilities, in particular, wheelchairs. There is plenty of room in a standard stall for a parent to assist their able-bodied child, and a parent who won't let a ten-year-old go into a bathroom by themselves has their own mental problems that are nothing to do with physical accessibility. Bottom line - people who are physically disabled have no choice but to use these bathrooms, and people who are not are simply making up excuses for their own poor behavior.