Disney goes to trial over safety of Tower of Terror

[joel_maxwell]

I know that I am getting into semantics here but wouldn't a torsional rotation require a side to side of front to back movement? I have been on ToT dozens of times and I can never once remember ever experiencing any whiplash type movements.

Luckily, he isnt suing SM... the whiplash claim would have a serious case.

 

[njDizFan]

Happy that I could educate as well as entertain. Both of those graphs are commonly used in the skeptical community when you are trying to explain the correlation does not always equal causation. I am not sure of the origin of the lemon import/ traffic fatalities graph but the Pirate/global warming graph originated from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Yes, a Flying Spaghetti Monster reference. Touch his most holy noodly appendage.

 

[PurpleDragon]

I know that I am getting into semantics here but wouldn't a torsional rotation require a side to side of front to back movement? I have been on ToT dozens of times and I can never once remember ever experiencing any whiplash type movements.

Exactly what I was thinking, the negative and positive G forces felt on ToT are in an up and down fashion, so as far as I know would only create minor amounts of traction and compression on the spine, in no way would it cause any sort of twisting or rotation like the "expert" claims.

I still call BS, there is no amount of evidence to exactly pinpoint ToT as the cause of the injury and stroke. For all we know he could have injured himself turning to oogle at a pretty girl while in the parks. Unless he had a full medical screening directly before and after the ride, there is no amount of hearsay that they can toss around to prove without a shadow of a doubt that it was ToT and ToT alone that caused the stroke.

 

[jakeman]

I know that I am getting into semantics here but wouldn't a torsional rotation require a side to side of front to back movement? I have been on ToT dozens of times and I can never once remember ever experiencing any whiplash type movements.

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who caught that and thought the same thing. I can tell you, BTMRR and SM I always found a bit harder on one's neck/back (and never anything on ToT), so given what the articles say, I'm thinking Disney's doing the right thing taking this to trial.

I saw that also.

Back in 1998 there were only lap restraints but even then, I can't see how that would produce a twisting motion. Baring a ride malfunction I don't see how a twisting motion can be produced.

It seems like we are missing a chunk of that conversation.

However, more damning than the above is, in my opinion, this by their own expert witness:

...hours to weeks...

The expert is even opening the door that this could have happened at anytime.

 

[Ziggie]

I know that I am getting into semantics here but wouldn't a torsional rotation require a side to side of front to back movement? I have been on ToT dozens of times and I can never once remember ever experiencing any whiplash type movements.

That's what their "expert" is claiming :shrug: I don't believe the article mentions what type of expert he/she is though, does it?

 

[mcjaco]

That's not the argument they appear to be making; see below.

That was the one item that confused me. I thought in 1998 ToT only dropped once during it's program. They're stating it's multiple drops was the cause. How is that possible, unless he went on multiple times?

Or I'm wrong on the program. Or I'v stumbled onto one of Disney's defenses. :drevil:

 

[mcjaco]

That's what their "expert" is claiming :shrug: I don't believe the article mentions what type of expert he/she is though, does it?

And to note on "experts." They're bought and paid to say what either side wants them to say.

In the case I defended the plaintiff had an "expert" on escalators. His only expertise is that he read through manufacturer manuals and had them memorized. He didn't understand the mechanical, inspections or servicing of them.

I beleive he was also listed on legalexperts.com or the like....

 

[Slipknot]

I've been on ToT hundreds (literally) of times. I'm very healthy (at least I think I am...). According to this guy's lawyers, I should be dead by now.

 

[fosse76]

Disney could be taking the case to trial to prove that it has some teeth, not because they're overly confident that they'll win (and losing doesn't necessarily have dire implications for this type of attraction). If you are quick to settle every case, you get a reputation among plaintiff's attorneys, and that sets a bad precedent for future incidents/potential claims.

I think people are reading too much into this. We don't know "Disney is taking this to trial." In order for there to be a settlement, BOTH SIDES must agree. For all we know, the Plaintiff could have rejected every offer. As such, Disney has no choice but to go to trial.

Barry Novack is high profile attorney. "Ambulance chasing" isn't the type of work he does by a long shot. To even be represented by Novack suggests to me that there must be at least some slight merit to the case (and that it likely got past summary judgment would support this as well).

That's my thinking as well. There is obviously a question of fact that judge feels should be determined by a jury. People on this thread are making all sorts of baseless assumptions.

 

[mcjaco]

That's my thinking as well. There is obviously a question of fact that judge feels should be determined by a jury. People on this thread are making all sorts of baseless assumptions.

My point on page one. I'm continually amazed at how people know so much from knowing so little.

 

[jakeman]

That's my thinking as well. There is obviously a question of fact that judge feels should be determined by a jury. People on this thread are making all sorts of baseless assumptions.

My point on page one. I'm continually amazed at how people know so much from knowing so little.

I for one am enjoying the dialogue.

While there has been some of the usual quick judgements about character or motives, I think most of us in here acknowledge that we don't have all the facts.

My own curiosity about Disney and rudimentary knowledge of anatomy has piqued my interested in both the mechanics of ToT and how they could lead to this injury. It is really nothing more than that.

As far as I can see, ones who are participating in the same discussion I am haven't really cast judgement one way or another.

That was the one item that confused me. I thought in 1998 ToT only dropped once during it's program. They're stating it's multiple drops was the cause. How is that possible, unless he went on multiple times?

Or I'm wrong on the program. Or I'v stumbled onto one of Disney's defenses. :drevil:

I thought the same thing. I think at the lastest we were in the second incarnation, which I think was only two drops at that time.

 

[Master Yoda]

That was the one item that confused me. I thought in 1998 ToT only dropped once during it's program. They're stating it's multiple drops was the cause. How is that possible, unless he went on multiple times?

Or I'm wrong on the program. Or I'v stumbled onto one of Disney's defenses. :drevil:

The double drop sequence was initiated in May of 1996. The Fear every drop sequence started in March of 1999 and computers were added to randomize the sequence on December 31 2002.

source http://www.towerofterror.org/history/opening

 

[PurpleDragon]

I think people are reading too much into this. We don't know "Disney is taking this to trial." In order for there to be a settlement, BOTH SIDES must agree. For all we know, the Plaintiff could have rejected every offer. As such, Disney has no choice but to go to trial.



That's my thinking as well. There is obviously a question of fact that judge feels should be determined by a jury. People on this thread are making all sorts of baseless assumptions.

Yes because every case that actually goes to trial is 100% legit.

There are times judges allow cases to go to trial simply out of curiosity or possibly they had a very light week and had room on their docket. Just because we have a fair and just legal system in place, doesn't always mean its used in the correct fashion.

 

[Ziggie]

And to note on "experts." They're bought and paid to say what either side wants them to say.

In the case I defended the plaintiff had an "expert" on escalators. His only expertise is that he read through manufacturer manuals and had them memorized. He didn't understand the mechanical, inspections or servicing of them.

I beleive he was also listed on legalexperts.com or the like....

LoL! mcjaco, your posts are so refreshing! :sohappy: I'm grinning at the His only expertise is that he read through manufacturer manuals part I guess that *would* make him an expert on what the manual said

 

[rkelly42]

How many people have gone on ToT and have not had a stroke afterwards let alone 2 weeks later. To blame that on the ride is irresponsible and they are really reaching. The stroke could have been caused by flying home at high altitude, why not sue the airline. We have no idea what his lifestyle was before he ever went to WDW on that day and probably will never know, but that is the biggest factor in this, not going on ToT.

 

[Maerj]

The guy suing here is from PA as are others as mentioned elsewhere in this thread and there were other people who previously tried suing WDW from PA.

In order to put an end to these frivolous lawsuits, I am banning any people from Pennsylvania from traveling to WDW. Of course, I am excluded from the ban and am completely willing to relocate to avoid being banned.

 

[rkelly42]

The guy suing here is from PA as are others as mentioned elsewhere in this thread and there were other people who previously tried suing WDW from PA.

In order to put an end to these frivolous lawsuits, I am banning any people from Pennsylvania from traveling to WDW. Of course, I am excluded from the ban and am completely willing to relocate to avoid being banned.

Lol... maybe we should let the good people of PA have at them and see if it happens again.

 

[WDWhumanmap]

Oh give me a break:zipit:
This was one of my grandfather's favorite rides he was 80 yrs old as well last time he went on this ride and he had diabetes,phlebitis, heart problems etc and still went on this ride and loved every minute of it.
This is like me turning around saying all that was caused by tower and he had that for more than half his adult life. :shrug:
I think tower is more safe now then it ever was with the lap bars. There is also plenty of warning about what conditions this ride goes into he had plenty of time to think about it! In all my yrs of visiting and working for the parks I have seen people riding Tower and RNRC starting with simple transfering from wheelchair/using walker to going on it with oxygen masks/tanks. And come off it just as happy if not happier than they went on it. :sohappy:
Crazy stuff I tell ya only brought to by guests that give us park people a bad name.
A hello to all us crazy park people Woohoo!:wave:

 

[JimJam]

This is starting to be blown out of proportion

 

[kerafaith]

.......
Cohen’s lawyers intend to show he was a physically active housing developer who suffered a tear in an artery leading to his brain while riding Tower of Terror with his family on March 28, 1998. That, they say, caused a debilitating stroke a few weeks later.
........
Cohen’s lawyers intend to present evidence that the Tower of Terror, which features a succession of drops and ascents, creates a whiplash effect that can seriously injure even healthy riders.
.........
Cohen’s suit accuses Disney of multiple shortfalls with Tower of Terror, including ignoring recommendations from its own safety experts when building the attraction and failing to provide appropriate warnings to guests about the safety risks.
.......

So now people want money for being stupid? In that case :hammeray up cause I can act stupider than the stupidest

Now I may have only ridden Tower of Terror twice but nither time did I feel anything close to "whiplash".

And if the guy was, at the time, a 68 year old "housing developer" then why did he need "appropriate warnings to guests about the safety risks." :veryconfu

If he was smart enough to be a housing developer then you'd think he'd be smart enough to know that the ride simulates being in a free falling elevator.