Disney Finally Squashes Illegal Kiddie Gambling

DznyGrlSD

DznyGrlSD

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
TronPinball said:
Does anyone have pictures of the shooting gallery?? I would really love to see it!
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Google is awesome

crhshooting1.jpg
 
T

TronPinball

New Member
Flynnibus you are correct. The whole reason this mess started was when the Seminole Indian tribe file a lawsuit against these "Senior Arcades" since it was pure online gambling saying they were illegal since they have a charter with Tallahassee which gives them exclusive rights to gambling in Florida. The attorneys for these "Senior Arcades" dragged in redemption arcades to help get the focus of attention off of them. That's when they looked into the Florida statues 849.161. This statute is very vague and does not fully identify what type of games that are in a redemption arcade. They lump them altogether as gambling machines. So the attorney Mike Wolf who represents the "Arcade and Bingo Association" does not represent redemption arcades like cec, d&b, disney or any other redemption arcades be it a local chain or a mom and pop operation. Disney was fighting this but instead decided that protecting the brand's image to be the top priority. If the individuals that don't like arcades or consider them "gambling for kids" are not getting the point. At the bottom of the Sentinel story they should have seen where an investigator was sent in to see if Disney's arcades where violating the law. The investigator said that they are not violating the gaming law. Some of the games we have here are app games that more than likely these individuals have on the phones or tablets. Apparently I didn't realize Fruit Ninja, Doodle Jump and Cut the Rope were gambling games.

Yes Disney is removing the redemption games because of this statute and the failure of the bills in the Senate and House that defined the difference between gambling machines and redemption/amusement machines.

As for the claw games, if people did their homework, NJ has a law on the books that states claw games are to be play till you win games. As jbolen2 stated his cranes are also set for play till you win. There is this law called gravity that interferes with things being picked up. So you have to keep trying until the crane has a good grip on the right part of the toy in question. Which requires skill.

If all these redemption games are so "evil" as people say then why do so many guests play in our arcades? If they were a blight to Disney, the guests wouldn't play in the arcades and Disney wouldn't have them in the first place. No matter how the guest does on the game they still win a ticket or tickets. Over the years I've seen kids grow up that play in the arcades and they have not turned into gamblers... They play to have fun, if they win tickets in the process that great, if they don't that's great too.

Gaming machines like video poker, blackjack, slots etc...they are designed to give the house the advantage. They don't want you be big winners they just want you to lose lots of your money in these machines...and maybe give a small win depending on the programming of the computers which includes a random number generator.


The other big picture that no one seems to see is the loss of thousands of jobs from the coin-op industry because of all this. This not only includes the employees and owners, but also the technicians that repair the games among others. Why should we be punished because of ignorant politicians and lawyers?

flynnibus said:
I was hoping to start a serious thread on this but many have already taken the bait of the easy angles...

First lets understand this is Disney reacting to a law written to combat nothing related at all to redemption arcades. In the ever ongoing game of cat and mouse between gambling setups and the states, FL passed an overly broad law that in effect puts classic redemption arcades in the cross hairs.

The real target was gaming setups aimed at exploiting seniors - hence the "Internet cafe" references.

Constraints added like requiring the games be coin operated and the value limits make the classic business model illegal and put people like Disney, chuck e cheese, Dave n busters etc in the bullseye.

Similar misguided laws have been a problem in this area as well... Where efforts to control grey-area gambling setups designed to skirt existing laws lead to the states passing stupid laws that impact arcades. In Maryland, the law tried to move the redemption games under the lottery commission and basically regulate them like slot machines with all the extra costs and restrictions that brought.

What I find crazy in this story is that a lobby entity for the arcade and bingo operators is the one filing lawsuits against the arcade operators!

The seniors places all got targeted to be shutdown... Yet the big names did not... So they are suing so that d&b and Cec get shutdown as well in a strategy to try to draw companies with more resources into the fight against the law.

Disney's action is simply there same song of risk advErsion. Rather than risk being drawn into the fight they just remove the redemption. But like most places, redemption is the majority of the arcade space and business... So will Disney abandon their arcades all together?
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danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
TronPinball said:
Flynnibus you are correct. The whole reason this mess started was when the Seminole Indian tribe file a lawsuit against these "Senior Arcades" since it was pure online gambling saying they were illegal since they have a charter with Tallahassee which gives them exclusive rights to gambling in Florida. The attorneys for these "Senior Arcades" dragged in redemption arcades to help get the focus of attention off of them. That's when they looked into the Florida statues 849.161. This statute is very vague and does not fully identify what type of games that are in a redemption arcade. They lump them altogether as gambling machines. So the attorney Mike Wolf who represents the "Arcade and Bingo Association" does not represent redemption arcades like cec, d&b, disney or any other redemption arcades be it a local chain or a mom and pop operation. Disney was fighting this but instead decided that protecting the brand's image to be the top priority. If the individuals that don't like arcades or consider them "gambling for kids" are not getting the point. At the bottom of the Sentinel story they should have seen where an investigator was sent in to see if Disney's arcades where violating the law. The investigator said that they are not violating the gaming law. Some of the games we have here are app games that more than likely these individuals have on the phones or tablets. Apparently I didn't realize Fruit Ninja, Doodle Jump and Cut the Rope were gambling games.

Yes Disney is removing the redemption games because of this statute and the failure of the bills in the Senate and House that defined the difference between gambling machines and redemption/amusement machines.

As for the claw games, if people did their homework, NJ has a law on the books that states claw games are to be play till you win games. As jbolen2 stated his cranes are also set for play till you win. There is this law called gravity that interferes with things being picked up. So you have to keep trying until the crane has a good grip on the right part of the toy in question. Which requires skill.

If all these redemption games are so "evil" as people say then why do so many guests play in our arcades? If they were a blight to Disney, the guests wouldn't play in the arcades and Disney wouldn't have them in the first place. No matter how the guest does on the game they still win a ticket or tickets. Over the years I've seen kids grow up that play in the arcades and they have not turned into gamblers... They play to have fun, if they win tickets in the process that great, if they don't that's great too.

Gaming machines like video poker, blackjack, slots etc...they are designed to give the house the advantage. They don't want you be big winners they just want you to lose lots of your money in these machines...and maybe give a small win depending on the programming of the computers which includes a random number generator.


The other big picture that no one seems to see is the loss of thousands of jobs from the coin-op industry because of all this. This not only includes the employees and owners, but also the technicians that repair the games among others. Why should we be punished because of ignorant politicians and lawyers?
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Claw games in NJ don't have to be "play till you win", but some towns, like Ocean City, do not allow games of chance, so claw games in these towns are set to "play till you win".
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Unplugged said:
Great info. Would make for a great chat over a beer, not necessarily in a casino or resort. :)D) Thanks.
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Disclosure... I like casinos, gambling, and all the things vegas is associated with... ;)

And major coin-op was intertwined with the mob for a good period of time. (re: Bally).. and was notorious back in the day for strong arm methods of enforcement and fighting for turf. It wasn't always the cleanest industry :D

That said, I'm just a hobbyist, but in being so, I am friends with many route operators and know the games.

What I don't know fully is the arrangement Disney has for it's arcades. To my knowledge they contract a lot of it, but I don't know if they carry any inventory themselves or outsource all of it. They used to do more in-house, but haven't seemed to in a long time.

I still want to know what they did with all the games that used to be in the Penny Arcade...
 
Figments Friend

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
The live-controlled Billy Bob figure interests me the most because it's an area where Disney lagged behind considerably.
In fact, I'm not aware of any live-controlled figures in the parks currently, and certainly none that talk. Perhaps it's because Disney has a strong policy against multiple actors attempting recognizable voices. The only examples of this I'm aware of are Crush and Stitch, and both of those use screen-based, rather than physical figures.
The living character initiative never really lead to any meaningful outcome.

Unless we count "Push", which is arguably not even an animatronic, the only one I've ever seen is this animatronic Buzzard at Dollywood, though every time I've seen him it's been set to an automatic show mode.
I'm not sure if they ever attempt manual control these days.

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Roz, out at DCA*s *Monsters Inc.* themed dark ride, is a animatronic figure that is performed live by one of her *friends* behind the scenes.

She is the last figure you see before unloading, and her comments can be very specific about the Guests she sees approach in the ride vehicles.

Regarding the LCI , what we have seen so far is just the tip of the creative iceberg.
;)
 
Unplugged

Unplugged

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
Disclosure... I like casinos, gambling, and all the things vegas is associated with... ;)
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I'm good with Vegas and such as well. (In fact, I have to go out there next month for 2 weeks to set-up and work a large customer conference. It'll be nice to take in a show, dining, shopping, & a bit of gaming while there.) :cool: (No smiley's with cigars or cocktails on here.)

I just never liked how games of chance have become so intertwined with games of skill when presented in a child friendly environment. A buddy of mine owned a video arcade back in the day and made a pretty good living from it, while the trend lasted. At the time...no payouts, just pure game play to get you name on the high scores are pummel your buddies. Ahh, that was the life as a kid.
 
5thGenTexan

5thGenTexan

Well-Known Member
Almost right in the middle of the game floor at Chuck E Cheese sits a coin pusher game. There is no skill, its is completely a game of chance. When you drop a token it spits out one ticket, but IF your token causes other tokens to fall the machine starts spitting out tickets, and IF you make the pharaoh move the tickets really spit out.
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Figments Friend said:
Roz, out at DCA*s *Monsters Inc.* themed dark ride, is a animatronic figure that is performed live by one of her *friends* behind the scenes.

She is the last figure you see before unloading, and her comments can be very specific about the Guests she sees approach in the ride vehicles.

Regarding the LCI , what we have seen so far is just the tip of the creative iceberg.
;)
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That remains to be seen.
Between Push and Lucky the Dinosaur, we've lost more interactive figures that we've gained.
 
unkadug

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Original Poster
Figments Friend said:
Think of them as *research projects* for bigger ideas to come.
You have to thoroughly test out a concept first in the proper setting and situation before moving forward in the direction of bigger and better things.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, but I wonder what the prototypes that we have seen are leading up to. Each Living Initiative Project seemed to beget another yet what is the final outcome?
 

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