Disney Finally Squashes Illegal Kiddie Gambling

[HakunaMatata89]

does this make our little friends from Toy Story displaced refugees?

 

[MarkTwain]

If it means the end of the Tomorrowland Arcade, I'm all for it. Such a poor exit for Space Mountain, and the way it blocks the view and diminishes the scale of Space Mountain from within Tomorrowland is terrible:

If all they do is expand the gift shop or make it a DVC sales center, then I'd be less enthusiastic.

 

[SirLink]

Wait Florida has banned internet cafe's?

*Obligatory Bugs Bunny sawing Florida from the Rest of United States.gif*

 

[flynnibus]

How did we survive as kids? I'll tell you. We didn't win prizes all the time and get sucked into playing (paying) games with the high hopes of winning a prize! Most games we played were purely video games of skill in the arcades. There was no prize awarded...you played for fun or frustration, but it was pure play on a quarter (or more on newer more advanced games). They had difficulty settings configured by the arcades, but they were still games of skill.

Cranes, string cut, key hole, and these other crappy "games" are NOT games. They have internal settings that literally set how often prizes are awarded, just like slot machines or worse. Thus, they are NOT games of skill as the machines over ride your skillful alignments and make it appear you were "slightly off" the prize, when in fact you were not the lucky winner according to the setup payout. Fact on that. Thus, a lot of the machines being removed are gambling.

The ticket awarding machines fall into 2 categories. Some are skill, some are pre-set like the above examples. So yes, as a majority, this is gambling and not games of skill paying out prizes.

If Disney had purely games in the arcades it wouldn't be an issue. But they know what they have and it's not right. If they want into that market, they should start selling DVC points for Mickey's Casino in Vegas. At least that would be the correct machines and "games" managed by the correct authorities.

You are so far off

1) the gaming industry didn't start with pong or space invaders... It was a monster industry for decades prior... And has included games like claw machines since the pre war period.

2) while claw machines would have adjustments for difficulty they were not fixed payouts

3) when games like slots etc have payout settings that does not mean the outcome is predetermined. It means the game adjusts to ensure a ceiling or floor is kept within over a period of time. Slot machines for instance may be required to return a minimum % of earnings- that does not mean every 10th game must be a winner.

 

[Scuttle]

DVC sales kiosk

Nah, way to far out of sight.

 

[flynnibus]

I was hoping to start a serious thread on this but many have already taken the bait of the easy angles...

First lets understand this is Disney reacting to a law written to combat nothing related at all to redemption arcades. In the ever ongoing game of cat and mouse between gambling setups and the states, FL passed an overly broad law that in effect puts classic redemption arcades in the cross hairs.

The real target was gaming setups aimed at exploiting seniors - hence the "Internet cafe" references.

Constraints added like requiring the games be coin operated and the value limits make the classic business model illegal and put people like Disney, chuck e cheese, Dave n busters etc in the bullseye.

Similar misguided laws have been a problem in this area as well... Where efforts to control grey-area gambling setups designed to skirt existing laws lead to the states passing stupid laws that impact arcades. In Maryland, the law tried to move the redemption games under the lottery commission and basically regulate them like slot machines with all the extra costs and restrictions that brought.

What I find crazy in this story is that a lobby entity for the arcade and bingo operators is the one filing lawsuits against the arcade operators!

The seniors places all got targeted to be shutdown... Yet the big names did not... So they are suing so that d&b and Cec get shutdown as well in a strategy to try to draw companies with more resources into the fight against the law.

Disney's action is simply there same song of risk advErsion. Rather than risk being drawn into the fight they just remove the redemption. But like most places, redemption is the majority of the arcade space and business... So will Disney abandon their arcades all together?

 

[Bairstow]

interesting.
I wouldn't mind seeing the arcades closed completely to be perfectly honest. I've heard they tend to have unsavory people there....

 

[flynnibus]

The states keep making broader definitions in efforts to try to stop the loopholes and gray areas and unintended consequences kicks in

 

[DisneyGentleman]

Tomorrowland Arcade space is rumored to be empty space, boarded up, potential retail or even a meet and greet. I heard it was closing but didn't know how soon.

If the end result of the law was to cause them to close the Tomorrowland abomination, I'd say "great work!"

 

[Goofyernmost]

Prize games....Makes kids go Berzerk..

After seeing that post I think that I have to re-evaluate my opinion on the way the games operate.

 

[Figments Friend]

I*m actually quite impressed there are people here who remember The Rock-aFire Explosion.

Creative Engineering did some great work back in the 80s with this animatronic show, and i am glad to see it being remembered here.

CEI is still active, but mostly now in the private sector producing Rock-aFire segments for films, music videos, and live stage shows across the US.
Shows have not been sold outwardly for several years now, and those few public locations that used to have it present are now either closed or have had the Show decay into a state of non-impression.
Very sad, as the quality of the engineering of the figures and the musical material was excellent.
The Show was a figurehead for *Showbiz Pizza Place* in the 1980s, *Chuck E. Cheese*s* #1 competitor during that time pre-buyout.

Seeing a Rock-aFire Explosion show in a public place today, is now almost next to impossible.
Those few Shows still *out there* in public places are in horrendously poor condition.
When fully operational with all movements working, these figures moved with a quality comparative to Disney*s.

Several people tried to revive the Show by opening semi-themed restaurants, such as *Showbiz Pizza Zone* in Phenix, AL, *Rock-aFire Pizza* in Indio, CA, and the chain of *Looney Birds* locations spread around the Southern US.
All of these places ( and more ) are now closed, with the exception being a place called *Billy Bob*s Wonderland* in Barboursville, WV.
This family fun center is still operational, but the Show inside is in absolutely terrible condition and a very poor example of it*s potential.

All fully operational shows are now owned privately by longtime dedicated fans, and of course by Aaron Fechter himself who owns the original animation programming stage at CEI headquarters shown in the video clip posted earlier.

There is a very serious fan community dedicated to the Rock-Fire, who have spent insane amounts of money and time to fully restore used Shows into pristine working condition.
I was quite involved in that community some years ago, and still keep in touch periodically.
Many of them have excellent Shows ...and a passion for the characters and material to go with it.
I*m surprised and delighted to see some folks here who remember this Show, too.

I am friendly with Aaron, and have done some animation programming at CEI and figure sculpting work for him some years ago on a couple of projects.
A great honor and pleasure working with him.
He will be delighted to hear people in the Disney fan community still remember his company*s work!

 

[Jakester]

Another example why America needs less government.

 

[ParksAndPixels]

Well if that is the case......Would this also involve removing the Carnival games in Dinorama...Sure it is a different situation but, kids are giving money to win prizes...

They could close the whole land while they're at it and start over.

 

[Rose&Crowner]

Well that is just BS.

 

[Mr Bill]

Another example why America needs less government.

"Internet Cafes" have been an issue in Florida for a while and legislation to outlaw them isn't the problem. THe problem is when it's done in a poorly written, broadly defined way such as this.

 

[DisneyCane]

You are so far off

1) the gaming industry didn't start with pong or space invaders... It was a monster industry for decades prior... And has included games like claw machines since the pre war period.

2) while claw machines would have adjustments for difficulty they were not fixed payouts

3) when games like slots etc have payout settings that does not mean the outcome is predetermined. It means the game adjusts to ensure a ceiling or floor is kept within over a period of time. Slot machines for instance may be required to return a minimum % of earnings- that does not mean every 10th game must be a winner.

To add to your response. Claw machines may have adjustments to the way that the mechanism responds to the joystick inputs, they certainly don't do anything like unplugged was suggesting. The claw doesn't know where the prize is that you are trying to grab. Honestly, I doubt there are any adjustments. They are just designed so that it is very difficult to grab a prize due to the fact that the claw doesn't close very tightly.

WRT to slot machines. The reel combinations and associated payouts are set up so that the sum of the probability of each combination multiplied by the payout of that combination gives the expected value that they are shooting for. It takes a huge number of plays to hit the expected value. Just to hammer home the point you were making, the outcome of any particular play is not predetermined.

 

[TheRabbit]

So all of the games in the Tomorrowland Arcade are being moved out? That's an awful lot of space now empty.

No, sounds like just the prize games. Most of the games in that arcade are regular video games so shouldn't be too noticable.

 

[Nick Pappagiorgio]

That stinks. I was killing some time a couple years ago in the beach/yacht club arcade and by complete luck (I say that because I had no clue how the game worked), hit the super jackpot on the frogger machine. Got 3 large prizes out of the machine for cluelessly pushing a button.

Which is ironic considering my screen name.

 

[flynnibus]

"Internet Cafes" have been an issue in Florida for a while and legislation to outlaw them isn't the problem. THe problem is when it's done in a poorly written, broadly defined way such as this.

The grey area gambling is a problem in many places and the law is having a hard time keeping up.

Sounds like their lawyers involved are just as shady as the businesses they are representing

 

[flynnibus]

To add to your response. Claw machines may have adjustments to the way that the mechanism responds to the joystick inputs, they certainly don't do anything like unplugged was suggesting. The claw doesn't know where the prize is that you are trying to grab. Honestly, I doubt there are any adjustments. They are just designed so that it is very difficult to grab a prize due to the fact that the claw doesn't close very tightly.

The claw's clamping power is an example of where there are adjustments. There are adjustments to accommodate the different types of merchandise you'd stock it with and in turn these can be used to adjust the difficulty of the machine