Disney Finally Squashes Illegal Kiddie Gambling

Rasvar

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
Can't say I hate this action. Disney was the one who pushed hardest for the expansion of the kiddie gaming years ago. Hated it when they started to go that way. Half of video games were replaced with kid versions of casino machines.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with casinos. Many a dollar of mine has fallen into their hands. I just never liked the straight casino ripoffs (that didn't even pay as well as the ones in the casino). Plus, they did an incredibly bad job of maintaining the video games after they put those in becuase they didn't generate as much revenue as the kiddie casino games.
 
T

TronPinball

New Member
With all due respect, all games have been properly maintained, we have the best techs that are constantly keeping our games running and looking brand new. Also we didn't replace half of the video games with skill based redemption games not "casino machines" as you incorrectly imply. Again casino games are designed for the house advantage to take your money. That's how they make their money and stay in business.


Rasvar said:
Can't say I hate this action. Disney was the one who pushed hardest for the expansion of the kiddie gaming years ago. Hated it when they started to go that way. Half of video games were replaced with kid versions of casino machines.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with casinos. Many a dollar of mine has fallen into their hands. I just never liked the straight casino ripoffs (that didn't even pay as well as the ones in the casino). Plus, they did an incredibly bad job of maintaining the video games after they put those in becuase they didn't generate as much revenue as the kiddie casino games.
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Rasvar

Rasvar

Well-Known Member
TronPinball said:
With all due respect, all games have been properly maintained, we have the best techs that are constantly keeping our games running and looking brand new. Also we didn't replace half of the video games with skill based redemption games not "casino machines" as you incorrectly imply. Again casino games are designed for the house advantage to take your money. That's how they make their money and stay in business.
Click to expand...

Sorry. The coin push games are straight rip offs of machines that had been in casinos for years. But, no, you are right, they are designed for a house advantage. The house advantage with the tickets is even bigger than the house advantage with the coins. At least when coins drop, it's an equal value payback. I also don't need to be lectured on the techs doing the work. A good friend of mine started out doing that work at Disney 20 years ago. But I stopped putting any money into arcade games at Disney a long time ago because of worn joysticks and dead flippers that got increasingly worse after the ticket machines started to go in. Now maybe that issue has been turned around but the quality of maintenance on the non-ticket machines tanked in the first few years of the ticket machines being installed. So, I will assume that aspect has been corrected based on your comments. However, a lot of those games of skill are not very different from current casino games except in style of payout. They make their money the exact same way. The dance games, skeeball, whack-a-mole and other ticket games were fine. I have had serious issues with other games that are dead ringers for those in casinos.

I'm not anti-gambling at all. I've hit more than my share of casinos. However, calling something a game of skill has always been the way around gambling laws. I just had an issue with Disney using certain kinds of machines that were pulled straight from the casino floor for kids. There is 1% skill vs 99% luck in a lot of them.
 
jme

jme

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
I understand your frustration - but your statements are in the neighborhood of truth, but factually wrong. Claw machines set difficulty to control payouts - not set actual odds. Slot machines use probability and averages to ensure target levels of return over time - not pre-determine the output or when they payout.

The game doesn't say 'oh ****, 212th pull? time to give a jackpot'
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I was basing my comments on a story I read a while back: http://kotaku.com/5929888/why-yes-those-claw-machines-are-rigged-says-arcade-operator
Some choice quotes:
The machines have variable PSI strength settings for the claws, wrote TheDJTec. It's designed so that they "pay out" (give you a toy) only as often as state regulations require.
The odds in California require a prize dispensed on one in every 12 tries. In Nevada (and in many other states) the odds are 1 in 15.
"My claw during 11/12 tries will apply 4-6 PSI, or just enough to shuffle it or barely pick it up," he said. "During the 1/12 tries the claw will apply 9-11 PSI, sometimes picking it up and dropping, some successful." He said that toys typically require 10 PSI to grasp. He goes into deeper detail about how the odds change (and are capped) if the thing fails to pay out on payout-strength grips.
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flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
jme said:
I was basing my comments on a story I read a while back: http://kotaku.com/5929888/why-yes-those-claw-machines-are-rigged-says-arcade-operator
Some choice quotes:
Click to expand...

Here is an example of one of the gaming menus to give you an example of how the games shape payouts. Look at page 9 - http://www.coastalamusements.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/blacktie_manual.pdf

Of course the operator's controls what the reduced power is or not. In these cases, its still dependent on skill (but not solely), but the operator's controls control how much someone can win.
 
EpcoTim

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
George said:
Are you sure this isn't about all the underground **** fighting rings that many were leaving their toddlers at so they could enjoy adult beverages in the official drunkytown section of WS?
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No, this is directly related to the monkey knife fights in the Contemporary basement. This has nothing to do with the Sippy Cup Martini Lounge and its associated family activities.
 
mm121

mm121

Well-Known Member
This is stupid, just another example of government over reach, and broad laws impacting things they were never intended to impact.

its no wonder kids stay home and play violent video games and dont know how to associate with people outside of games or off of iphones.

the red tape in america the supposed land of the free gets more and more crazy every day.


hakunamatata said:
Just another example of the Disney greed.
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how is removing these games an example of disney greed?
olinecoach61 said:
Another stupid law, how did we all survive as kids? I guess I was corrupted by claw machines and arcades and didn't know it.[/QUOTE
Good question, its a wonder anyone made it to adulthood.
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T

TronPinball

New Member
Rasvar said:
Sorry. The coin push games are straight rip offs of machines that had been in casinos for years. But, no, you are right, they are designed for a house advantage. The house advantage with the tickets is even bigger than the house advantage with the coins. At least when coins drop, it's an equal value payback. I also don't need to be lectured on the techs doing the work. A good friend of mine started out doing that work at Disney 20 years ago. But I stopped putting any money into arcade games at Disney a long time ago because of worn joysticks and dead flippers that got increasingly worse after the ticket machines started to go in. Now maybe that issue has been turned around but the quality of maintenance on the non-ticket machines tanked in the first few years of the ticket machines being installed. So, I will assume that aspect has been corrected based on your comments. However, a lot of those games of skill are not very different from current casino games except in style of payout. They make their money the exact same way. The dance games, skeeball, whack-a-mole and other ticket games were fine. I have had serious issues with other games that are dead ringers for those in casinos.

I'm not anti-gambling at all. I've hit more than my share of casinos. However, calling something a game of skill has always been the way around gambling laws. I just had an issue with Disney using certain kinds of machines that were pulled straight from the casino floor for kids. There is 1% skill vs 99% luck in a lot of them.
Click to expand...

I'm not lecturing you about the techs I'm just stating what I know being there the past 14 going on 15 years and doing my daily walks checking for problems from the games from burned out bulbs, broken joysticks, worn game controls etc... I don't catch everything I'm not perfect nor am I presenting myself as such. I'm just one person who gives a damn about the arcade along with the techs that we have that feel the same. It's a reflection on us. As soon as a guest lets me know a problem exists I make sure the problem is taken care of that day if possible or the following day. If it's a quick fix I'll do it myself if possible.

Yes there are literal casino style games...and I don't like them. If there was a game that was questionable all it would take is one guest complaint and that game would be yanked off of property within 24 hours.
 
T

TronPinball

New Member
flynnibus said:
Here is an example of one of the gaming menus to give you an example of how the games shape payouts. Look at page 9 - http://www.coastalamusements.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/blacktie_manual.pdf

Of course the operator's controls what the reduced power is or not. In these cases, its still dependent on skill (but not solely), but the operator's controls control how much someone can win.
Click to expand...


Still skill based. It doesn't matter what the settings are on our cranes they are very winnable. The other day I saw 12 stuffed animals won within an 8 hour shift and we weren't even that busy...

That being said there are crooked operators that will make it impossible to win anything and there is a giant investigation going on right now in Arizona.
 
T

TronPinball

New Member
mm121 said:
This is stupid, just another example of government over reach, and broad laws impacting things they were never intended to impact.

its no wonder kids stay home and play violent video games and dont know how to associate with people outside of games or off of iphones.

the red tape in america the supposed land of the free gets more and more crazy every day.



how is removing these games an example of disney greed?
Click to expand...


Not so much government over reach as ignorant lawmakers who create laws with not seeing the big picture or doing the proper research. Everything was fine until this statute was designed to fix one problem and one problem only, the online gaming "arcades". Unfortunately it was poorly written which is the problem and now one person has twisted it to use against another industry because the industry he is representing are crying foul and it's unfair and acting like 5 yr olds.
 

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