Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[mahnamahna101]

Ill give you that. If (and thats a big "IF") Disney does do a Star Wars Land and they actually go BIG, it could be game over for a long time. If the movie is a hit AND they build an actual amazing Star Wars Land, its a game changer, a big one.

Not really... by then (2021/2022), USF and IOA will be world-class destinations in their own right with something for the whole family. And a 3rd gate will either be announced, under construction or in the works. Not to mention Volcano Bay, 7-8 hotels, CityWalk, etc.

DHS, even with 2-3 new Star Wars attractions and TSPL, will only have 14-16 attractions. After you subtract for the closures of Backlot, LMA, Jack Sparrow, Indy, Frozen Sing-a-Long and potentially Muppets, there will technically have been no added attractions... and capacity will have declined since most of those are people-eating shows.

DHS will be below 10 million by the early 2020s if they don't add something substantial and get the attraction count to at least 20. AK and Epcot should be well ahead of it by 2018/2019. Even USF and IOA should surpass it - Frozen Summer Fun will only work until Frozen Ever After opens.

Star Wars Land is a huge step in the right direction, but similar to pre-WWOHP IOA/USF, DHS will have a long way to go afterwards. It'll require an expanded Muppets presence, possibly keeping Indy for a people-eater, an expanded Pixar Place, expansion between RnRC/Animation Courtyard, Animation Courtyard becoming a compelling area for someone over the age of 8, updating GMR, and adding something to Sunset to ease tension on ToT/RnRC.

No, I meant 2016. Hulk is Kong, Loki is Elsa

Mako feels left out... I think he's Hawkeye or Coulson

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know a lot of folks here feel similarly, but here's the thing...WS hasn't had a new attraction in since 1988 when Maelstrom was built to begin with. That's nearly 30 years ago. It's been very clear for a very long time that the WS we envisioned back then is never coming to fruition.

World "Showcase" is already a misnomer - it only "showcases" a very limited juxtaposition of countries, and at some point - say, after 30 years in a "showcase" without change, it's really a "museum".

Like Future World, I think folks are very very attached to the 1980's PR and just have a real hard time seeing what's really been sitting there vs. what they envisioned it would become.

No good museum stays the same nor does it jumpingly deviate from its goals. World Showcase needs to be MORE like a museum.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Just like all of the other Disney princesses weren't timeless

Frozen will still be popular like the other Disney princess films other than PATF. Disney animation is timeless in its own right. A well done Frozen attraction (like what DisneySea is getting) should be fine regardless.

I agree. Disney Princesses live forever. The mania over Frozen has died down somewhat, but its popularity will likely be eternal.

 

[mahnamahna101]

No good museum stays the same nor does it jumpingly deviate from its goals. World Showcase needs to be MORE like a museum.

World Showcase just needs something to do other than shop, eat and get drunk

Mt Fuji or Studio Ghibli tour of Japan (hosted by Totoro and Kiki) E-ticket for Japan
Gondolas for Italy
Updates for current CircleVision shows
Niagra Falls E-ticket for Canada
Thames River dark ride and Mary Poppins carousel for the UK
Rhine River Cruise for Germany
Switzerland pavillion with Matterhorn clone
Greece pavillion with mythology E-ticket utilizing KUKA arms (Odyssey/Hercules, etc)
Magic Carpets moved to Morocco
IASW to replace Odyssey
Alps E-ticket log flume for France
Brazil pavillion with Raging Spirits clone and a musical show

With that, World Showcase has 5 shows, 5 family dark rides, 1 scenic boat ride, 5 E-tickets with some thrill, a D-ticket coaster, and 2 flat rides in a 300 acre park that currently has zero.

19 attractions... almost as many as Epcot's current 23.

 

[Pirate665]

I know a lot of folks here feel similarly, but here's the thing...WS hasn't had a new attraction in since 1988 when Maelstrom was built to begin with. That's nearly 30 years ago. It's been very clear for a very long time that the WS we envisioned back then is never coming to fruition.

World "Showcase" is already a misnomer - it only "showcases" a very limited juxtaposition of countries, and at some point - say, after 30 years in a "showcase" without change, it's really a "museum".

Like Future World, I think folks are very very attached to the 1980's PR and just have a real hard time seeing what's really been sitting there vs. what they envisioned it would become.

While I mostly agree with you, I think most of us are more attached to the company's quality from back then and standards towards a show. While it was preachy on PR, real thought went into a lot of the attractions and their end goals.

Also, with all this love shown to Epcot lately, I went and had my tattoo updated yesterday. Felt the need to. I'll post pics later.

 

[AEfx]

No good museum stays the same nor does it jumpingly deviate from its goals. World Showcase needs to be MORE like a museum.

30 years of relative stagnancy isn't "jumpingly" doing anything, though - especially considering it wasn't like characters coming was completely out of the blue (Mexico in 2007).

I get what you are saying - but I guess it all boils down to me as reality - the EPCOT we as fans envisioned in the 1980's simply never panned out. It was a bastardization of Walt's original vision of EPCOT to begin with, but because it was "our" EPCOT we overlooked it's massive corporate agenda, the largely 1970's US vision of the world from WS (that outside of North America and Europe, only China and Japan really matter), because we really really liked a few of the rides which were among the best dark rides ever created.

I miss them tremendously, but they aren't coming back...and if we aren't going to have the WS in particular that we were meant to, I'm all for adding things that will entice and attract guests who will enjoy them. I agree that the capacity issues of Maelstrom are going to be a big deal, but conceptually I think it's just time to accept the reality that WS, and Epcot - just isn't going to retain the 1980's PR lines indefinitely.

 

[Pirate665]

I miss them tremendously, but they aren't coming back...and if we aren't going to have the WS in particular that we were meant to, I'm all for adding things that will entice and attract guests who will enjoy them. I agree that the capacity issues of Maelstrom are going to be a big deal, but conceptually I think it's just time to accept the reality that WS, and Epcot - just isn't going to retain the 1980's PR lines indefinitely.

Agreed. The park is a living thing. It has to evolve and as a parkologist its not the evolution we expected but it's here. Lol. But seriously, the best we can hope for is that if it Phantom Boats it gets noticed.

 

[lazyboy97o]

30 years of relative stagnancy isn't "jumpingly" doing anything, though - especially considering it wasn't like characters coming was completely out of the blue (Mexico in 2007).

I get what you are saying - but I guess it all boils down to me as reality - the EPCOT we as fans envisioned in the 1980's simply never panned out. It was a bastardization of Walt's original vision of EPCOT to begin with, but because it was "our" EPCOT we overlooked it's massive corporate agenda, the largely 1970's US vision of the world from WS (that outside of North America and Europe, only China and Japan really matter), because we really really liked a few of the rides which were among the best dark rides ever created.

I miss them tremendously, but they aren't coming back...and if we aren't going to have the WS in particular that we were meant to, I'm all for adding things that will entice and attract guests who will enjoy them. I agree that the capacity issues of Maelstrom are going to be a big deal, but conceptually I think it's just time to accept the reality that WS, and Epcot - just isn't going to retain the 1980's PR lines indefinitely.

There are ways to attract people without repeating 1970s concepts or do in the same thing Disney is doing everywhere else.

 

[FigmentJedi]

30 years of relative stagnancy isn't "jumpingly" doing anything, though - especially considering it wasn't like characters coming was completely out of the blue (Mexico in 2007).

I get what you are saying - but I guess it all boils down to me as reality - the EPCOT we as fans envisioned in the 1980's simply never panned out. It was a bastardization of Walt's original vision of EPCOT to begin with, but because it was "our" EPCOT we overlooked it's massive corporate agenda, the largely 1970's US vision of the world from WS (that outside of North America and Europe, only China and Japan really matter), because we really really liked a few of the rides which were among the best dark rides ever created.

Eh, I wouldn't paint all of old Future World as entirely beholden to corporate sponsor agendas. Motion and Energy absolutely, but I mean, Making Memories was the only thing at Imagination that had anything to do with shilling Kodak, Horizons wasn't the extended GE commercial that Carousel of Progress was, Buzzy and General Knowledge weren't trying to sell you health insurance, and Living Seas's only real connection to United Technologies was fake elevators.

But even though the corporate sponsorship model that drove the park is pretty dead, that doesn't mean they should just make it Magic Kingdom 2.

 

[RSoxNo1]

To remove the reverse portion they would have to change the direction switches into curves and there doesn't really look like much room to do that.

View attachment 97855

What they can do though is potentially add a "hold area" for the boats before each track switch. I assume as it was, like Everest it needed another boat to clear a zone before the track switch would engage/switch.

 

[RSoxNo1]

There is no guarantee the franchise has the legs (or should I say wheels?) of something like Cars. Time will tell of course. IMO.

If you don't think Frozen is a viable franchise, you're more delusional than we all thought... congratulations for hiding it so well.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think they will someday question the decision either way.

I hope there are people already questioning it. It's a mistake.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Relax, Star Wars will fix everything.

That's likely 5 years away. They've sat idle for too long. The deserve to be criticized for mistakes. Imagine how great the parks would be if they invested the $1-2 billion from Next Gen into actual attractions?

 

[danlb_2000]

On a positive note, we don't have to worry about any more World Showcase rides getting a character theme.

 

[jt04]

If you don't think Frozen is a viable franchise, you're more delusional than we all thought... congratulations for hiding it so well.

We were discussing its viability to support multiple attrations (rides) at several parks globally and not the amazing financial success it has had. Marvel movies make a lot too but all will not become theme park rides. Same could be said of Pixar films.

 

[jt04]

I hope there are people already questioning it. It's a mistake.

Doubt it. WS is an area ripe for reimagining. Frozen will prove this and then some. Apologies to the purists.

 

[jt04]

On a positive note, we don't have to worry about any more World Showcase rides get a character theme.

Mind if I get back to you on this in a decade or so?

 

[jt04]

That's likely 5 years away. They've sat idle for too long. The deserve to be criticized for mistakes. Imagine how great the parks would be if they invested the $1-2 billion from Next Gen into actual attractions?

Mind if I get back to you on this after D23?


You may be right but I am hoping for the best.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Doubt it. WS is an area ripe for reimagining. Frozen will prove this and then some. Apologies to the purists.

This attraction will have ridiculous wait times. It has nothing to do with location and everything to do with it being a Frozen ride with lousy capacity. The franchise deserved more and World Showcase deserved more. It is the biggest "creative" mistake in the history of Walt Disney World.

Disney knows how popular Frozen is, otherwise they wouldn't have "rushed" to get a ride into the parks. But the same reason they're rushing to put it into Norway (high demand) is one of the reasons why Norway is a horrible location (low capacity).

 

[AEfx]

Eh, I wouldn't paint all of old Future World as entirely beholden to corporate sponsor agendas. Motion and Energy absolutely, but I mean, Making Memories was the only thing at Imagination that had anything to do with shilling Kodak, Horizons wasn't the extended GE commercial that Carousel of Progress was, Buzzy and General Knowledge weren't trying to sell you health insurance, and Living Seas's only real connection to United Technologies was fake elevators.

But even though the corporate sponsorship model that drove the park is pretty dead, that doesn't mean they should just make it Magic Kingdom 2.

True, it wasn't all consumer-directed. I think I actually listed a few earlier in this thread (like medical equipment manufacturers, etc.) that don't sell directly to consumers, but they still participated. It's because in the early 1980's, EPCOT was seen as this one-of-a-kind permanent World's Fair - and participating in it brought great press to the company, made them stand out from their competitors, and just general prestige back when Disney was still riding Walt's coat-tails ("We are a partner with Walt Disney World's revolutionary vision of the future, EPCOT Center"). Not to mention being able to impress clients and such with comp tickets and private lounges.

It's also not a knock on the original attractions - you are correct, they weren't all giant ads. Some of them did indeed transcend that. And there were some of probably the best dark rides the world has ever seen so far that sadly are gone. Just because it's corporate sponsored doesn't automatically mean there couldn't be quality - IASW was a corporate sponsored attraction.

All that said - the basic point is - those of us who grew up with EPCOT Center had the perception that it was an altruistic venture, that all these corporations came together with Disney for the good of mankind as a vision of the future. In truth, it was really closer to Disney getting their park subsidized by the highest corporate bidders who either wanted direct access to consumers or the prestige and benefits of being associated with it (versus their competitors).

I know these are difficult truths - but the longer we cling to them, the more traumatic the future is going to be as it continues to move away from this corporate sponsorship model.