aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
wouldnt matter as all that stuff could and would be moved, that is one of the expansion pads for a future pavilion, but since thats never going to happen they should have been using it for frozen, instead of norway etc.
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Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
wouldnt matter as all that stuff could and would be moved, that is one of the expansion pads for a future pavilion, but since thats never going to happen they should have been using it for frozen, instead of norway etc.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
What is an overlay? Serious question. I thought I knew, but after reading this thread I think I'm off.
To me an overlay is adding props to an existing ride without changing the ride itself. It's usually temporary and can be easily setup and/or removed. Examples of past overlays at Disney include Jingle Cruise for the holidays. Disneyland has a lot more holiday overlays at rides like HM and Small World for both Halloween and Christmas. They add seasonal props and lights but the ride itself isn't changed.
People keep saying this Frozen thing is an overlay, but if they are potentially changing the load and unload, reversing the ride, adding stops for projected show scenes and adding Frozen AAs then it doesn't sound like an overlay to me. Am I missing something?
Mike S
Well-Known Member
You're right. A better word would be one that was coined in the TTA/Astro Orbiter refurb thread: refurd. Basically a refurbishment where the attraction comes out of it worse than when it started.
Tigger1988
Well-Known Member
Can you share your magic crystal ball with the rest of us?
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Don't need to. Frozen doesn't belong in World Showcase so it's automatically a bad choice. They could build the greatest attraction ever but it still wouldn't fit.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
That I can't really argue with. I'm not saying it's a good idea. I'm just not sure it's going to actually be an overlay. If they just add some Frozen props to the ride it would be really easy to remove and return the ride to its original state.
Disneyfanman
Well-Known Member
75 pages in 4 days. I understand the arguments and all, and emotionally I agree. A few memories of the past haunt. I visited Epcot in 1983 and found it to be unusual, interesting, and full of potential. The other people that I visited with (all young adults) were bored. Over the years with many visits in many groups, Epcot became my favorite park, but nobody that I knew agreed with me. Nobody. Eventually Disney added Characters to FW in response to complaints and more people came.
Recently several families I know who are planning trips are skipping a day at Epcot and planning more time at Universal. A limited sample but still interesting.
I'm guessing that Disney has gobs of data showing that Epcot has aging demographics and declining margins. They see in Frozen a single opportunity to create a demand and bring in a ton of families who might have skipped the park. And it will probably be a great attraction and do exactly what Disney wants with attendance.
I think that they do care what people think. I they fully realize it will forever alter the world showcase. I don't personally want Frozen in Norway. I also think that more characters are inevitable in the WS.
Recently several families I know who are planning trips are skipping a day at Epcot and planning more time at Universal. A limited sample but still interesting.
I'm guessing that Disney has gobs of data showing that Epcot has aging demographics and declining margins. They see in Frozen a single opportunity to create a demand and bring in a ton of families who might have skipped the park. And it will probably be a great attraction and do exactly what Disney wants with attendance.
I think that they do care what people think. I they fully realize it will forever alter the world showcase. I don't personally want Frozen in Norway. I also think that more characters are inevitable in the WS.
PirateFrank
Well-Known Member
Forgive me, but can we all stop calling it an 'overlay'? It's not an overlay (that's what happens when the Jungle Cruise becomes the Jingle Cruise). What we're talking about is a re-theme.
Having said that, I agree that a re-theme of the original maestrom attraction is likely the course to be taken here.... but how are they going to 'reverse' it without gutting/removing the climb mechanism and retrofitting it where the drop exists? At that point, it might serve to gut the whole ride system and start over. To me that seems like a great deal of work with very little actual benefit. You speak of cheap solutions, but a reversal of the track is anything but. Personally, I think that portion of the rumor has got about as much chance of happening as a 5th gate.
Having gotten that off my chest, I have to say a 'boat ride' themed to frozen makes stupid sense. In the movie, every single boat or ship got literally frozen in the fjord and/or crushed in the ice. So how is flowing water in the frozen land of Arendale going to make much sense in the story line of such an attraction. I don't get it.
I also agree that the potential increase in ride interest will turn the Norway pavilion into a veritable traffic ridden nightmare. I seriously hold out hope that they slap in a quick and dirty omnimover and increase the capacity of this attraction a bit....or else the east side of the WS is going to have to be avoided at all costs.
There goes my frequent tequila stops at La Cava
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
18 months is enough time to gut a building and put an entirely new ride system. I'm not saying that's what they're doing, but it's not unreasonable.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Not an overlay. Refurd.Forgive me, but can we all stop calling it an 'overlay'? It's not an overlay (that's what happens when the Jungle Cruise becomes the Jingle Cruise). What we're talking about is a re-theme.
Having said that, I agree that a re-theme of the original maestrom attraction is likely the course to be taken here.... but how are they going to 'reverse' it without gutting/removing the climb mechanism and retrofitting it where the drop exists? At that point, it might serve to gut the whole ride system and start over. To me that seems like a great deal of work with very little actual benefit. You speak of cheap solutions, but a reversal of the track is anything but. Personally, I think that portion of the rumor has got about as much chance of happening as a 5th gate.
Having gotten that off my chest, I have to say a 'boat ride' themed to frozen makes stupid sense. In the movie, every single boat or ship got literally frozen in the fjord and/or crushed in the ice. So how is flowing water in the frozen land of Arendale going to make much sense in the story line of such an attraction. I don't get it.
I also agree that the potential increase in ride interest will turn the Norway pavilion into a veritable traffic ridden nightmare. I seriously hold out hope that they slap in a quick and dirty omnimover and increase the capacity of this attraction a bit....or else the east side of the WS is going to have to be avoided at all costs.
There goes my frequent tequila stops at La Cava
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I wish I could like this twice.Forgive me, but can we all stop calling it an 'overlay'? It's not an overlay (that's what happens when the Jungle Cruise becomes the Jingle Cruise). What we're talking about is a re-theme.
Having said that, I agree that a re-theme of the original maestrom attraction is likely the course to be taken here.... but how are they going to 'reverse' it without gutting/removing the climb mechanism and retrofitting it where the drop exists? At that point, it might serve to gut the whole ride system and start over. To me that seems like a great deal of work with very little actual benefit. You speak of cheap solutions, but a reversal of the track is anything but. Personally, I think that portion of the rumor has got about as much chance of happening as a 5th gate.
Having gotten that off my chest, I have to say a 'boat ride' themed to frozen makes stupid sense. In the movie, every single boat or ship got literally frozen in the fjord and/or crushed in the ice. So how is flowing water in the frozen land of Arendale going to make much sense in the story line of such an attraction. I don't get it.
I also agree that the potential increase in ride interest will turn the Norway pavilion into a veritable traffic ridden nightmare. I seriously hold out hope that they slap in a quick and dirty omnimover and increase the capacity of this attraction a bit....or else the east side of the WS is going to have to be avoided at all costs.
There goes my frequent tequila stops at La Cava
I posted a question that was buried a few pages back about potentially removing the water and boats and converting to an omnimover ride. I agree that it makes no sense that the Frozen ride is a boat. I am also pretty sure a boat ride costs more to operate and maintain long term and we know TDO would be in favor or something that cuts operating costs.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Any idea how much that would cost ballpark? Are the ride system and vehicles generally half the cost of the ride or is it less than that? I'm trying to gauge how possible that would be to do.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't even have a guess. I believe the Imagination to Imagination 2.0 change was $50 million, but that number could be wrong. I couldn't find anything with definitive #s, other than the below from this site in October 1999:
http://www.wdwmagic.com/attractions...isner-rides-journey-into-your-imagination.htm
What in the heck cost them $50 mil?
flynnibus
Premium Member
It was there.. until they slowly chipped away at it and now you justify throwing away the rest. Hook line and sinker...
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Ripping out Epcot's imaginative spirit ain't cheap.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Thanks. If it was $50M I could see them doing it here. Much more and I doubt they would spend the money.
misterID
Well-Known Member
EPCOT is the second most visited park at WDW. They are outright targeting the aging demographics because that's who show up to the F&W fest and they make serious bank on them, and is one of the reasons they felt they didn't need to plus or expand, or add attractions or new countries in WS before. They really didn't need a kiddy targted ride. And again, make no mistake, this is all about selling more merch. Which it will. They could easily create an uptick in attendance by doing something with Imagination, which is the ride that needs a refurb... along with UOE. I won't miss Maelstrom but it was a strange choice to place Frozen, imo. DHS could have used this ride far more than EPCOT... but Norway was the cheapest choice. That's what those gobs of data showed. EPCOT does not have an attendance problem. But this is an incredible way to sell more merch, I'll give them that.
DisneyJunkie
Well-Known Member
It's really simple...."Frozen" is a sheer fantasy movie (and one I personally very strongly dislike). The Norway pavilion in Epcot is there to educate people on the history and culture of the country. The existing "Maelstrom" fits that purpose of the pavilion. Anything having to do with "Frozen" does not. To replace "Maelstrom" with the pure garbage that is "Frozen" is an insult.