Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
wdwfan757 said:
How different is shoehorning frozen into maelstrom than pretty much everything universal has done in the last 5 years not named Harry Potter? Take something unpopular, gut the building, add in newer, fresher IP to the same building, await while WDWMagic rants about how quickly you're way better than WDW these days.

I just don't see why everything has to be a D-ticket/E-ticket. Half the board says that adding garbage like Pixar Place to HS is a better solution than adding a 3rd track to TSM... yet, replacing Maelstrom with a Frozen themed dark ride isn't an upgrade? Because apparently Frozen should get sooo much more? What should it get? What does Frozen deserve? Peter Pan is 2:45, Winnie the Pooh is 3:08, Snow White's Scary Adventures was 2:25 and everyone acts like those were the greatest thing ever. They gave you a 6 minute Under the Sea and everyone says it sucks. So it's not length. Aladdin doesn't have anything but a spinner, Lion King doesn't have a ride. They gave you a mine train that lacked duration but managed to give you a fun/tame coaster with a new animatronic style, and you all said it wasn't long enough. So for anything to matter it needs to be an E-ticket, and for some reason, it needs to jump over Avatar and Star Wars in terms of the E-ticket agenda.

They're replacing Maelstrom with an improvement over Maelstrom and it should just be left at that. Just because it's Frozen doesn't mean it deserves it's own land yet or its own E-ticket yet... and if they spent eons developing a Frozen E-ticket everyone would complain about how Disney didn't used to base their best attractions on movies.
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The problem is that Frozen is not thematically appropriate for World Showcase.
 
Sora_Keyblade

Sora_Keyblade

Active Member
I've said it before...Frozen is a huge hit with massive global impact.
It deserves better than an overlay of an existing ride in a park that needs all the attractions it can get.
Now if only Marc Davis had thought of something. ;)
 
tribbleorlfl

tribbleorlfl

Well-Known Member
wdisney9000 said:
This type of response is a great example of how people fail to understand the premise of this overlay being a ridiculous idea. (not a jab at you, @Siren, so please dont take it that way)

Peoples blind love for Frozen or something new at WDW just clouds their judgement or either they refuse to realize the true reasons for this overlay and they think that people who are against it are just whining or complaining. Allow me to clarify a few things about those, or at least myself, who believe this is a bad decision.

1. The idea that this overlay is wrong has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with how I, or others personally feel about Frozen the movie. Does not matter if you love it or hate it, its not about that in any way.

2. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "saving Maelstrom".

3. It has nothing to do with anybody trying to revive or bring back the Epcot of the 80's.

4. It has EVERYTHING to do with the fact that this is the most unimaginative, unoriginal and just plain laziest thing by a company that built its theme park foundation on the exact opposite principles. And for some crazy
reason its applauded by people who fell in love in with the WDW that was created with diligent care and effort
to AVOID this very type of concept. It was designed by men and woman who did not see things in the short- term and took every measure to avoid this exact type of shortcut to give the people what they want.

But Disney is acting on a hot IP you say? Doesnt matter, thats NO excuse and it only enables them to do this again when the next "hot IP" comes along. That excuse works for the sing along and dessert party at HS, but it does not work for shoving an entire attraction into the easiest spot.

But Epcot and World Showcase are old and need a new direction you say? Fine, Im all for that, but making Magic Kingdom 2.0 is NOT a new direction. Its the same direction. Diversity creates dimension in the world, its powerful, it creates beauty, it makes a difference. Would you want every butterfly to look exactly the same?

But Disney is also building Avatar and spending a lot of money on that and Star Wars is coming. So what, does one quality product excuse another for being lackluster? It wouldnt matter if SW and Avatar are the best things ever designed in any theme park, it has nothing to do with this.

Im just tired of hearing the same old garbage. "Epcot needs something new". Of course it does, you could also say that about every theme park, especially if you have visited many times.

"World Showcase has nothing for my family". Thats truly sad if you believe that.

"I love Frozen and so do my kids, we cant wait for this to open". Well, congratulations. Your impatience is being rewarded by Disney...with mediocrity.
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So your opinion is the only one that matters, no one else's is valid. Got it.
 
tribbleorlfl

tribbleorlfl

Well-Known Member
orlando678- said:
The problem is, is that Maelstrom wasnt unpopular. Also it doesnt matter what universal does, this is Disney, not universal. Another thing is that Harry Potter doesnt completely change the look at a park. Sure we miss jaws, but without it, we can still have a Universal Studios theme park. Frozen however completely breaks through and changes the cultural look at world showcase. Frozen will get so many people to the calm world showcase and also Frozen doesnt depict Norway that much, except for trolls that arent completely based on the Norwegian versions of them, costumes and landscape. The real trolls, the gods, the vikings, nothing of that is in Frozen and thats what im going to miss most when frozestrom opens.
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Neither did Maelstrom.
 
dizneycrazy09

dizneycrazy09

Well-Known Member
I'm going to precursor what I'm going to say with this... I am a huge fan of the original Epcot Center and an advocate for the original idea. However, times change. Attitudes change. Guests change. Therefore, parks need to change. I wholeheartedly believe that if Epcot were to open today in 2015 as it did in the 80's, it would not be popular at all. Can you imagine what the millenials would think of a theme park wher they had to learn?! The horror! Again, having said that, I'm not sure that changing Epcot's entire identity to an IP-centric park is the right path either. All I know is, I love Epcot. It's my favorite park. It alway has been my favorite park, and it needs LOTS of TLC. Do I think Frozen is a good fit for Norway? Meh. I think I'll be upset if the ride sucks. If they do a nice job, and it's a "plus" over the Maelstrom, then I'll be happy. I don't think that the addition of this ride marks the end of Epcot's vision. I do however think it means that Epcot is changing, and it might not be for the worse.

It just gets enormously tiring to come on the forums day after day and read the same complaints about Disney losing original visions and WDW doesn't do anything worthwhile any longer. We get it, things are different now, and we want them to go back to the way they were. Will they? Who knows. I just don't know why we can't be kinda, sorta excited that Disney is taking a (tired) ride that was left largely untouched or changed in decades, and turning it into something people actually want to ride. It may be like trying to shove a square peg into a circular hole to make it "fit" thematically, but I'm in the mindset that at least they're doing SOMETHING. Epcot will never be what it once was. So if it takes some IP's to get some fresh rides and fill the empty buildings, I'm sorry, but my nostalgia can take a back seat.
 
FigmentJedi

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
tribbleorlfl said:
Neither did Maelstrom.
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Matt_Black said:
No, no, they had the oil rig, remember? Because when you think of Norway, you think "oil rigs".
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Norway's oil business has been huge for years. Also the oil field depicted in the attraction is based on the real life Troll Field. So in the immortal words of George Lucas...



Maelstrom was hella Norwegian. Problem was the ride ended up short and rather unfocused.
 
wdwfan757

wdwfan757

Well-Known Member
orlando678- said:
The problem is, is that Maelstrom wasnt unpopular. Also it doesnt matter what universal does, this is Disney, not universal. Another thing is that Harry Potter doesnt completely change the look at a park. Sure we miss jaws, but without it, we can still have a Universal Studios theme park. Frozen however completely breaks through and changes the cultural look at world showcase. Frozen will get so many people to the calm world showcase and also Frozen doesnt depict Norway that much, except for trolls that arent completely based on the Norwegian versions of them, costumes and landscape. The real trolls, the gods, the vikings, nothing of that is in Frozen and thats what im going to miss most when frozestrom opens.
Click to expand...

So we can't have World Showcase without Maelstrom? As tucked away as Maelstrom was in the Norway pavilion, changing the signage to Frozen doesn't thematically change World Showcase at all. The trolls in Frozen are no less real than the trolls of Maelstrom. Trolls aren't real. Norway is in the news a lot for religious conflicts amongst its population, but Norse gods sure aren't involved. Vikings aren't still "prowling the water's edge" in Scandanavia. There's more "real mexico" in tres caballeros than there was "real Norway" in Maelstrom. If the first thing you saw when you transitioned from FW to WS was a big fake Elsa's castle, sure, you'd have a great point. But it's not even the first thing you see when you cross into the Norway pavilion.

If you take out the oil rig/village at the end and the movie, Maelstrom could have legitimately been a Fantasyland ride.

Maelstrom wasn't unpopular if you're comparing it to Gran Fiesta Tour and the current incarnation of FIgment, but I wouldn't venture to call it popular or a great success by any stretch. Jaws wasn't unpopular either? But if you can easily make it better, why not do it?
 
Matt_Black

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Tahu said:
Norway's oil business has been huge for years. Also the oil field depicted in the attraction is based on the real life Troll Field. So in the immortal words of George Lucas...



Maelstrom was hella Norwegian. Problem was the ride ended up short and rather unfocused.
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Fair enough, but that's the ONLY example of modern Norwegian life the ride sought to showcase, and it's pretty much presented without comment.
 
Mr. Peabody

Mr. Peabody

Well-Known Member
wdwfan757 said:
2 Floridians, an Irishman, a guy from Kentucky, and a puerto rican forming a celtic band and representing Canada isn't very thematically appropriate either, but no one seems to have a problem begging them to come back and replace the loggers.
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From the introduction of the Wikipedia article on "Music of Nova Scotia":
Music is a part of the warp and weft of the fabric of Nova Scotia's cultural life. This deep and lasting love of music is expressed through the performance and enjoyment of all types and genres of music. While popular music from many genres has experienced almost two decades of explosive growth and success in Nova Scotia, the province remains best known for its folk and traditional based music.

Nova Scotia's folk music is characteristically Scottish in character, and traditions from Scotland are kept very traditional in form, in some cases more so than in Scotland. This is especially true of the island of Cape Breton, one of the major international centers for Celtic music.
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orlando678-

orlando678-

Well-Known Member
So people are saying that Maelstrom didnt showcase Norwegian culture. Well i dont knoe if you ever rode it but it just depicts more realistic trolls, vikings and a lot of landscaping. Sure they could have added something themed to the Norwegian gods, which would have been amazing, but you wont convince me that Frozen depicts Norway better than Maelstrom.
 
dizneycrazy09

dizneycrazy09

Well-Known Member
orlando678- said:
So people are saying that Maelstrom didnt showcase Norwegian culture. Well i dont knoe if you ever rode it but it just depicts more realistic trolls, vikings and a lot of landscaping. Sure they could have added something themed to the Norwegian gods, which would have been amazing, but you wont convince me that Frozen depicts Norway better than Maelstrom.
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I don't think one person has tried to suggest that Frozen depicts Norway better...
 
FigmentJedi

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
wdwfan757 said:
2 Floridians, an Irishman, a guy from Kentucky, and a puerto rican forming a celtic band and representing Canada isn't very thematically appropriate either, but no one seems to have a problem begging them to come back and replace the loggers.
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Disney always had bagpipers in the Canada pavilion. Apparently based on the heavy amount of Scottish immigrants/descendants in Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Canadian
 

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