Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Yes, moving on. As this is still a forum to discuss this attraction, does anyone have a rough estimate of the budget or amount required to fund this remake/update? Was always curious about the financials behind attractions.
Insiders have put the figure around $75 million initially but we have no idea if that has been increased to include the M&G building of if the M&G is cutting even more away from a ride that already had a relatively cheap budget to begin with.

Btw I finally caught up with this thread. Probably shows how bored I am in my hotel room with everyone else sleeping already.
 

H2O_Mouse-Ears

Active Member
Insiders have put the figure around $75 million initially but we have no idea if that has been increased to include the M&G building of if the M&G is cutting even more away from a ride that already had a relatively cheap budget to begin with.

Btw I finally caught up with this thread. Probably shows how bored I am in my hotel room with everyone else sleeping already.
LOL
 

SnarkyMonkey

Well-Known Member
Do you believe that the best way to represent the people and culture of Norway is with a ride about "NOT NORWAY!"

If I were Norwegian, I'd be a little offended.

They aren't acting very offended about the connection between Frozen and their country that some people are making. Norway is cashing in big time and their tourism is booming because of that movie.

And even if it was explicitly set in Norway, it would still not be a Norwegian film or story.

I know that this point is really important to you as you keep saying it over and over again. But that really does not matter to a lot of people, including me. I really don't care where an idea originates.

Understood. But other than M&G locations and the Three Caballeros update in Mexico (not sure how I feel about that one), there are no attractions based on any of the cartoons. I believe most people are concerned that this Frozen attraction will be the start of a slippery slope that transforms WS into MK Fantasyland.

Why would Frozen start the slippery slope and not the use of IPs that you have mentioned that already exist in WS? Aren't they what started us down the slippery slope?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I know that this point is really important to you as you keep saying it over and over again. But that really does not matter to a lot of people, including me. I really don't care where an idea originates.
Then just be forward and say you don't care about World Showcase. It is all about where ideas originate. That's its connection to the ideas of EPCOT and Future World.
 

space42

Well-Known Member
Seems like you are hoping for failure to win the 'argument'. You complain about mediocrity but then root for mediocrity. This is going to happen even if we do not like it. So I am hoping it will be awesome, because if it is not, we will still be stuck with it for quite some time.

Like Imagination, Grand Fiesta Tour, Nemo, Stitch, Laugh Floor...
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
Let me lay out how a typical conversation on this thread has gone down. Let's say Person A is against Frozen in Norway and Person B is for Frozen in Norway.

Person A: Why are they putting Frozen in Norway when the movie didn't have anything to do with the country?
Person B: It does have to do with Norway because clearly Disney is connecting the two. I am all for it!
Person A: What does an American film of a Danish fairy tale that takes place in a fictional land have to do with Norway? Why isn't it in the Magic Kingdom?
Person B: I think it will bring life to Epcot and I'm glad to see change. Frozen is based on Norway so it fits.
Person A: There is a difference between based on and inspired by....
Person B: Yeah I know, all I'm saying is that it's my opinion and I like it.
Person A: But wouldn't it be better in the Magic Kingdom? Why shoehorn something into a country it doesn't belong in? What is your rationale for it being in Norway?
Person B: I already said it. I have the right to an opinion and that is that. I can't wait for the change. You can disagree but you can't demand me for answers.

(following this back and forth, Person B will add something like this a few posts later....)

Person B: I don't understand why people can't just be happy. We should be grateful and not criticize so much. Gosh it's a theme park and we should all stop being so negative. I can't wait for Frozen!

Everyone has an opinion. And in reality neither opinion is right or wrong. I'm not going to belittle someone because they disagree with me. But I am going to ask some questions because I'm curious how they arrived at their conclusion and I'm interested in their rationale behind it. Asking some questions is not a demand for answers. Because there is no real answer. And you know what, I might even agree with you later on if you give a decent explanation why it doesn't belong in the MK. But I'm never going to know that nor are the other people reading the forum if you avoid the questions and then just complain about people nagging you for more.
Yes, that is pretty succinct.

I don't think that covers all the arguments though. But it covers most.

That being said, and trying to focus on topic...

As stated before I am not a frozen fan. I am not in any way saying moving frozen to Norway is a fit due to movie based on Norway theme. I have to agree with alot here that is a stretch.

All I am saying is I see a bit of a trend here. I see how Disney is starting to push movie hits, and that one way to increase traffic in WS and make it more small child friendly is by tying in a movie franchise to one or more of the countries already there. Some of this has been going on for a while, with the boat ride in Mexico, Aladdin M&G in Morocco and so on.

I also don't think you detract from the original purpose of WS by doing this. Net, I don't think that changing Morocco to Agraba(sp?) is a good move. Nor do I think moving Norway to Arrendale a good move. All i am suggesting is enhancing what is there, to make it even better(IMO) and more interesting for all, especially families with small kids. I don't see the harm in doing that.

Again I have admit I am not a huge fan of Epcot. One reason being my kids don't enjoy the park much, and we are on family vacation so we want to find things we all enjoy. When we vacation at WDW we visit all the parks, but we don't spend full days at all. I am a huge history fan, so love going to American Pavilion and seeing that show. But that isn't enough to get my kids excited to go there. Then again, other than Soar'in and Test track they don't see much reason to go.

I acknowledge this goes against the original plan and theme of the park. I acknowledge it can be a negative for those who enjoy that original theme and plan. What I wonder is....if they haven't added a new world in such a long time...does anyone really think they ever plan to do so? Sorry that makes no sense to me.

As stated, my hope is the work in Norway area will be done well, as plans don't have the M&G tied into the Norway pavilion, but outside it. So I am hoping they keep the rest (other than Maelstrom) formatted the same, and this shows a push to start adding to the park again.

As stated by many here, Imagination, Ellen's energy ride and Innovations desperately need updated and new material brought in.

As for the rest of your post, let me clarify for you then. I am not trying to convince only you, but whoever reads it. But for those here who say they are open minded ....to consistently bash someone's response then question them to find real reasons for defense of their point of view is mean spirited and rude. Like or don't like my opinion, that is up to you. Have your own opinion, that is up to you. To shred my opinion and insult it and then ask for more and more reasoning is ridiculous and insulting.
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
Maybe, just maybe that is what educational stuff like World Showcase is for. So your kids don't grow up thinking Arendelle is an icy country located somewhere between Mexico and China.
uh, I thought we had already established in this thread that WS is not an educational platform, it is more a tourism site to see what is offered, and give advice how to visit and shop some of their wares. Are we back on the educational aspect again?

Oh, and my kids know Arendelle is a fictional land...so that to me seems a stretch for an argument as well
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
If a cartoon has background images that look like Germany, can said cartoon be allowed in Germany simply based on its aesthetic appearance and not based on the actual country the story takes place?

Let's say there was an Austrian pavilion. It has similar architecture to Germany. Would you be okay with Snow White being placed in Austria? Even though the story came from Germany?

It's basically the same question. I asked them already but here you go.
I would like to answer this, if you don't mind?
I think you have to do the best you can. There is not a Danish world in Epcot, the next closest, and one that visually has a similar tie in is Norway. So it does have some value there.

As for Mulan, I agree you COULD place in japan, but China is the best fit due to story in movie and story based. Pinnochio would fit well in Germany. Snow white would fit well in Austria, but since Germany is available and Austria not....its a moot point.
 

ctxak98

Well-Known Member
uh, I thought we had already established in this thread that WS is not an educational platform, it is more a tourism site to see what is offered, and give advice how to visit and shop some of their wares. Are we back on the educational aspect again?

Oh, and my kids know Arendelle is a fictional land...so that to me seems a stretch for an argument as well
Well I wouldn't say it's not educational at all. world showcase does have its educational values. But I agree it's not obviously a museum with loads of infoation and knowledge or something.

However that said Frozen has no right in Norway. Only if Elsa and Olaf take you on a magical journey around Norway and show you it's history and culture, will this ride make sense. I really am trying to let it go, but I can't until I know forsure what is going in in that space. I fear it's going to be a fantasyland dark ride which could be easily moved to the Magic Kingdom, featuring highlights from the movie.....just the thought makes me sick!
 

spacemt354

Chili's
I would like to answer this, if you don't mind?
I think you have to do the best you can. There is not a Danish world in Epcot, the next closest, and one that visually has a similar tie in is Norway. So it does have some value there.

As for Mulan, I agree you COULD place in japan, but China is the best fit due to story in movie and story based. Pinnochio would fit well in Germany. Snow white would fit well in Austria, but since Germany is available and Austria not....its a moot point.

The best you can would be to place Frozen in the MK or DHS where it belongs.

Shoehorning the fictional story of Frozen into a country that the story doesn't take place in is the cheapest option so that's why Disney is doing it.

Also Mulan in Japan....seriously? When you place characters out of context it's completely dismissing and downright insulting to the country of origin.
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
The best you can would be to place Frozen in the MK or DHS where it belongs.

Shoehorning the fictional story of Frozen into a country that the story doesn't take place in is the cheapest option so that's why Disney is doing it.

Also Mulan in Japan....seriously? When you place characters out of context it's completely dismissing and downright insulting to the country of origin.
Yes, I thought we had already agreed that BEST place for Frozen ride would be MK or DHS.

I think we also agreed that putting it in Norway was a stretch. And cost may have been the driver, to be able to act quickly.

My Mulan statement was in response to something before, if China had not been a site there, you could fit in in any "orient" experience. No I don't think anyone would mind.

I don't see Morocco being upset with Aladdin being there.....
 

jensenrick

Well-Known Member
OK, I'll make this real simple and use small words.

Were the people of Germany telling the story of Snow White before Disney made the movie? Yes.

Were the people of China telling the story of Mulan before Disney made the movie. Yes.

Were the people of Norway telling the story of Elsa before Disney made the movie? No.

Game Over.

WOO HOO! Did you hear that everybody? GAME OVER!
What a relief.
I guess Disney is gonna give up on building that Frozen ride in Norway now, what with the game being over and all.
What a GREAT Victory for the Anti-Freeze crowd. Let's celebrate!
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
Well I wouldn't say it's not educational at all. world showcase does have its educational values. But I agree it's not obviously a museum with loads of infoation and knowledge or something.

However that said Frozen has no right in Norway. Only if Elsa and Olaf take you on a magical journey around Norway and show you it's history and culture, will this ride make sense. I really am trying to let it go, but I can't until I know forsure what is going in in that space. I fear it's going to be a fantasyland dark ride which could be easily moved to the Magic Kingdom, featuring highlights from the movie.....just the thought makes me sick!
Sigh, we can agree to disagree. Again, if they restaged all of Norway to Arendelle I agree. But if it is an enhancement to do some kind of tie in....then I don't see the harm.
 

jensenrick

Well-Known Member
I believe that the things most hurt by moves like this aren't the integrity of Epcot or the feelings of the good people of Norway, but the very core of intellectual depth and artistic integrity.

Oh, ABSOLUTELY! I hear all the universities and museums are closing, now that the very CORE of intellectual depth and artistic integrity don't mean anything anymore! And why no? If the intellectual integrity of a Theme park like EPCOT isn't sacred, does anything have meaning?

As a country, we have been moving away from those concepts for too long. Oh, and the concept of bettering ones self also seems to be out of vogue these days as well.

So true! No one wants to better themselves anymore, they just want to sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. All because of a Frozen ride.

And to think- the downfall of intellectual depth and bettering oneself all starting with building a Frozen ride where someone people thought it didn't belong. And I was there, when the downfall began. Oh, the humanity.
 

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
uh, I thought we had already established in this thread that WS is not an educational platform, it is more a tourism site to see what is offered, and give advice how to visit and shop some of their wares. Are we back on the educational aspect again?

Oh, and my kids know Arendelle is a fictional land...so that to me seems a stretch for an argument as well
Who established that? Because that is absurdly ridiculous.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Yes, I thought we had already agreed that BEST place for Frozen ride would be MK or DHS.

I think we also agreed that putting it in Norway was a stretch. And cost may have been the driver, to be able to act quickly.

My Mulan statement was in response to something before, if China had not been a site there, you could fit in in any "orient" experience. No I don't think anyone would mind.

I don't see Morocco being upset with Aladdin being there.....

In regards to your bold statement...if Disney didn't have Japan, and they made a cartoon about Tokyo, you'd be fine with it being in China? You must because it fits your definition of "any orient experience"

Should they replace "Reflections of China" with "Reflections of the Vietnam War"? Because again, like you say...it's all orient.

That's so disrespectful to other nations and their respective history.

There is no excuse for Aladdin being in Morocco. None. However you're comparing apples to oranges. Two characters that have no dedicated platform meeting guests sporadically does not take away the historical aspects of Morocco to the extent that Frozen takes away Norway.

If they made Morocco into Argaba, even you claim you'd have an issue with it. Well, Disney is turning Norway into Arendelle, so you should have a problem with it as well.
 

DC0703

Well-Known Member
However that said Frozen has no right in Norway. Only if Elsa and Olaf take you on a magical journey around Norway and show you it's history and culture, will this ride make sense. I really am trying to let it go, but I can't until I know forsure what is going in in that space. I fear it's going to be a fantasyland dark ride which could be easily moved to the Magic Kingdom, featuring highlights from the movie.....just the thought makes me sick!

I think we all can agree that MK is probably the most logical home for a Frozen ride. That said, would you really want another big, attention grabbing ride in that park? It already is far and away the busiest park and really needs no more crowd drawing attractions.

Considering that they already have alternate big plans for DHS and DAK is a mismatch, I can see why they chose Epcot, even if it is an awkward fit. Plus, they already had an exhibit in the Stave Church building that showed how the culture of Norway influenced the making of the movie.

We'll have to wait and see if the ride will be a straight Frozen re-telling a la The Little Mermaid Ride, or something that ties Frozen to Norway in some way. Probably the former, but you never know.
 

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