Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

So... are we going to told what this awesome detail is? Or nah?

Nah.

 

[ProfSavage]

Nah.

 

[Penny R. Kaid]

The original concept for World Showcase has literally gone global since 1982 so reimaging it seems reasonable.

I have no problem with "reimaging"... What they're doing is "reimagining" a whole country's history & folklore... That in itself goes against showcasing the country...

Altering the name and goal of EPCOT to something non-futuristic would serve as an up-front confirmation to the world that the Disney company has finally and completely given up on progress. Something that is at complete odds with the very foundation the company was built on. Now truthfully, they've already done this with the park anyways with the changes made in the mid-late 90's (new attractions not only lacking any real futurism compared even to their aging predecessors, but completely outdated upon arrival). But actually coming out officially with it would be confirmation that they've truly lost their motivation and desire to raise the bar and "keep moving forward". Nothing more than a white flag formally announcing that they're giving up on the Disney company's core philosophies.

The only "problem" with EPCOT is the current leadership's lack of vision and refusal to keep on the ball about researching the latest technology as well as approving the proper budget to implement these technologies logically into the park at frequent intervals. They've made the conscious decision for the past 20 years to stop doing so. They are desperate to find ways out of actually investing in the park the way its original creators intended, so they turn to the easiest and cheapest ways out. Lately this has meant converting rides to include Disney IP cartoon characters. Despite the fact that the park was never intended or desired by its creators to accommodate Disney cartoon IP's.

Even back in '82 when EPCOT was new and the Disney company was infinitely smaller with very limited funds available in comparison to the modern Disney, they still built the park with the intention of constantly improving upon it with the newest technology. And they did so successfully for quite a while, both expanding and upgrading some of the existing attractions to keep them fresh and still futuristic up until about 1994. The now massive mega corporation which rakes in absurd profits every year can spare some money now and then to follow through with the promises they made well over 30 years ago (and adhered to up until 20 years ago). Doing so was BOTH sustainable AND financially successful for the company even back then when they legitimately had far less cash to spare (back when the parks were the primary contributor to the company's continued success and existence before Eisner came in to reform movies and TV). They've also grown far beyond needing corporate sponsors to assist them.

Merlin is right on the money! I would add that it was their duty to protect the park's integrity and mission at the cost of popularity. Especially, since they were now financially capable of doing so. What was that mission by the way? It was simple and it made sense... Teach us the history and advancements of technologies to finally paint an inspiring picture of where we were heading.
I don't even get why it was cheaper to get rid of these rides! Let's take WOM and Horizons... Half of these rides were about exposing history with animatronics... They could have basically maintained the same scenes while improving the animatronics... The only scenes that would have required more investment and time would be those touching the future... Basically, just to make sure people in the future weren't still using Data Cartridges, VHS and wearing clothes from old sci-fi flicks... Would doing that have been seriously more expensive than tearing it all down and starting from scratch?
One last thing... Animatronics are a dying breed where they should still be a source of pride for the Disney Imagineers... Nobody did it like them and i don't get why they want to do away with them rather than improving on them!

 

[Phil12]

Let's take WOM and Horizons... Half of these rides were about exposing history with animatronics...

..and they were primarily overt commercials for General Motors and General Electric.

It's interesting how nostalgia builds things up over the years. As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it". Over the years that same phrase has routinely been attributed to Walt Disney. In fact, the phrase came from a 1982 GE recruiting pamphlet. But since it sounded like something Walt would say, people think Walt Disney said it. Yet there is no evidence that Walt Disney ever said such a thing. But I understand how people look to the past with exaggerated memories of how great things were back in the good old days.

 

[Matt_Black]

..and they were primarily overt commercials for General Motors and General Electric.

It's interesting how nostalgia builds things up over the years. As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it". Over the years that same phrase has routinely been attributed to Walt Disney. In fact, the phrase came from a 1982 GE recruiting pamphlet. But since it sounded like something Walt would say, people think Walt Disney said it. Yet there is no evidence that Walt Disney ever said such a thing. But I understand how people look to the past with exaggerated memories of how great things were back in the good old days.

"Mr. Twain, the Golden Age was never the current age." Ben Franklin, The American Adventure

 

[Sped2424]

at this point sadly the best we can do is hope that at least the ride will be a good one.

 

[Horizons78]

"Mr. Twain, the Golden Age was never the current age." Ben Franklin, The American Adventure

How simple that sounds when heard and yet how easily forgotten in practice. Great pull.

 

[space42]

..and they were primarily overt commercials for General Motors and General Electric.

It's interesting how nostalgia builds things up over the years. As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it". Over the years that same phrase has routinely been attributed to Walt Disney. In fact, the phrase came from a 1982 GE recruiting pamphlet. But since it sounded like something Walt would say, people think Walt Disney said it. Yet there is no evidence that Walt Disney ever said such a thing. But I understand how people look to the past with exaggerated memories of how great things were back in the good old days.

However much you THINK nostalgia plays into peoples feelings of how GREAT Epcot Center was - is there any doubt it was superior to - Closed WOL pavilion rotting away, closed Odyssey only used for 'special events', closed millennium village rotting away, dumbed down Imagination, dumbed down innoventions, dumbed down SSE, Test Track, Mission Space, dumbed down Mexico, most likely dumbed down Norway, and lumberjacks?

Nostalgia has nothing to do with my love of classic Epcot Center.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

If your only argument against Horizons and World of Motion are the sponsorship logos and the identity of who made the "if you can dream it you can do it" quote (Walt may not have made a quote with this specific wording, but it lines up brilliantly with numerous quotes he's made and his core ideals), then I really have to just laugh. I didn't even pay attention to the logos as a child, there was practically no apparent corporate advertisement during the actual rides. Horizons and World of Motion were quite simply high quality rides, that's why people liked them so much. All you saw was pure Walt Disney magic when riding them, the kind only the old guard of imagineers could pull off. Something woefully and obviously absent in their disappointing replacements.

EPCOT was indeed better 20 years ago, it's quite apparent. Hiding behind the "nostalgia" argument is often a convenient excuse for people to disregard a well informed opinion and not present their own reasonable argument, but it just outright backfires here. Comparing EPCOT then and now there's no question when it was better, no nostalgia speaking here. I'll take two lengthy, creative and elaborately detailed rides with large animatronics populations over a short highway-speed car ride through an empty neon warehouse and a glorified space spinner any day. And that's not even mentioning Imagination...

 

[AMartin767]

If your only argument against Horizons and World of Motion are the sponsorship logos and the identity of who made the "if you can dream it you can do it" quote (Walt may not have made this specific wording, but it lines up ), then I really have to just laugh. I didn't even pay attention to the logos as a child, there was practically no apparent corporate advertisement during the actual rides. Horizons and World of Motion were quite simply high quality rides, that's why people liked them so much. All you saw was pure Walt Disney magic when riding them, the kind only the old guard of imagineers could pull off. Something woefully and obviously absent in their disappointing replacements.

EPCOT was indeed better 20 years ago, it's quite apparent. Hiding behind the "nostalgia" argument is often a convenient excuse for people to disregard a well informed opinion and not present their own reasonable argument, but it just outright backfires here. Comparing EPCOT then and now there's no question when it was better, no nostalgia speaking here. I'll take two lengthy, creative and elaborately detailed rides with large animatronics populations over a short highway-speed car ride through an empty neon warehouse and a glorified space spinner any day. And that's not even mentioning Imagination...

This.

 

[prberk]

Walt lined up with GE and GM and other companies of his era because their philosophy of "moving forward" and being "curious" seemed so in line with his. All of this goes back to the Walt we saw on TV promoting his involvement (with some of these companies) with the 1964 World's Fair, which I continue to believe gives the best insight for Walt's interest in EPCOT and his vision for the company's future. He loved entertainment, and he loved also his country and "the best of American industry," as he stated in the EPCOT film (his final).

He also understood how to use TV to accent all of it, to advance and share his agenda, dreams, and goals. And it was (and is) not a crime to mix it all together: to be commercial yet also a dreamer. He worked with companies to help pay for his dreams, but in a way that also lined up with their best sides and their abiliities. It wasn't seen as "giving in" or being "sold out" because they literally worked together to present both entertainment and a vision for the future. And used TV to sell it all.

They can still do that. And should. EPCOT (or Epcot) can still be featured on TV, giving exposure to innovaions and things presented there... as long as it has something to present. And I think, that hits on the crux of it all. The company seems to have lost its enthusiasm (or understanding) about EPCOT, and how keeping it fresh and presenting it as an exciting place that showcases the best of the world and innovations for the future can actually build upon itself, and create its own excitment... and drive tourism. Make EPCOT a backdrop to science-related shows, or for Discovery-type shows. And be proud of it. Use it to both whet the appetite of tourism but also to encourage discovery. That is what Walt did so well each week, as he stood at Disneyland or in his studio in front of a map of it, using it to springboard into whatever the Wonderful World show (or "Disneyland") show was about that week.

But in order to get to that level of enthusiasm again for EPCOT, they have to believe in it again... and that is possible. Just ask those in imaginering who get it to help.

 

[Penny R. Kaid]

..and they were primarily overt commercials for General Motors and General Electric.

It's interesting how nostalgia builds things up over the years. As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it". Over the years that same phrase has routinely been attributed to Walt Disney. In fact, the phrase came from a 1982 GE recruiting pamphlet. But since it sounded like something Walt would say, people think Walt Disney said it. Yet there is no evidence that Walt Disney ever said such a thing. But I understand how people look to the past with exaggerated memories of how great things were back in the good old days.

Who cares?

The first time i went to epcot, that i can remember, was at about 5-6 years old... The Living Seas wasn't even there yet. I remember thinking to myself "Hey the rides are slow but it's real nice anyways". It got me interested in stuff that kids today just don't care about. Do you seriously think I went on the ride saying... "Hey as soon as i'm old enough, i'm going to buy me a GE toaster and GM truck!"

Walt Disney had a lot of ideas but part of his genius was to surround himself with good people who could bring those ideas to life... Good people who respected the man enough to strife, even 20 years after he died, to accomplish projects that he held close to his heart...

Do you think I cared where the words came from... Only that they were good words! Disney had dire financial problems in those days. They couldn't have built it without outside help... Am I the only one to think it is remarkable that all these corporations with different agendas decided to unite and compromise because they saw the bigger picture! It wasn't all about them it was about "The Man's Dream" also!

It wouldn't even be done today! In fact, if Epcot never existed, even if they have the money to do it now, they wouldn't start up the project... There isn't anything to be gained of it...

If we can dream it, we can do it... Just as long as there's a souvenir shop to buy stuff at the other end!

 

[BrerJon]

Comparing EPCOT then and now there's no question when it was better, no nostalgia speaking here.

I bet if you sat somebody down who had never been to WDW, who had no nostalgia bias or vested interest, then showed them YouTube videos of Mission Space, Test Track and new Imagination, then showed them videos of Horizons, World of Motion and old Imagination, I'm sure they'd still prefer the older ones. Quite frankly you'd need a lobotomy not to.

 

[FigmentJedi]

I bet if you sat somebody down who had never been to WDW, who had no nostalgia bias or vested interest, then showed them YouTube videos of Mission Space, Test Track and new Imagination, then showed them videos of Horizons, World of Motion and old Imagination, I'm sure they'd still prefer the older ones. Quite frankly you'd need a lobotomy not to.

Old Imagination's a definitely in that book. Motion and Horizons responses might vary. I'll admit Motion's never appealed to me as strongly as the others in video form.

 

[JWG]

In the hey day of Epcot, Imagination was probably the best Futureworld attraction. Horizons was great, but Imagination was just such a total sensory grab for all ages. I have to admit, I honestly don't remember World of Motion other than the Making Memories song.

 

[Timekeeper]

In the hey day of Epcot, Imagination was probably the best Futureworld attraction. Horizons was great, but Imagination was just such a total sensory grab for all ages. I have to admit, I honestly don't remember World of Motion other than the Making Memories song.

This just might be the only time in history that Disney has ever used the word "free."

 

[Timekeeper]

 

[DisneyGentleman]

As you walked into the Horizons pavilion a phrase was written along the wall: "If we can dream it, we can do it".

Now it's been changed a bit -- "If you have a nightmare, it will become an attraction"

 

[wdisney9000]

Now it's been changed a bit -- "If you have a nightmare, it will become an attraction"

Also, "If the budget can be cut, do it...now!"

 

[NoChesterHester]

Such a short ride. Any narrative you wish to add?