Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[aladdin2007]

Just read Yesterland website. Here is something interesting from Disney's 1975 Annual Report detailing what World Showcase was to be about:



So, according to that bold part, any attraction built into a World Showcase pavilion would bring guests to that country and give it a little taste of its culture, heritage and history. So, please, defends of the rat and all things Frozen, how do you get Norwegian culture, heritage and HISTORY from an American animated movie taking place in a made up land?

You dont, there lies the problem. Had the ride been a tour through Norway with the characters as a guide etc, it would have been half way tolerable, but as of now not tolerable at all.

 

[BigTxEars]

You dont, there lies the problem. Had the ride been a tour through Norway with the characters as a guide etc, it would have been half way tolerable, but as of now not tolerable at all.

Fair enough if you do not want to ride it, but I am looking forward to it. If it sucks IMO it will be my last ride on it, same reason I only rode the BLT at DHS once.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That is exactly how it works in business in general.

I wonder if WS was privately owned by any of us how much we would resist the Frozen cash cow.....I know I would not. I would milk that cow for all it was worth

And you would be undermining the health of your own creative enterprise. Or are you one of those who thinks business is about exploiting to the max now and then jumping ship when the inevitable trouble starts to show its head?

Just read Yesterland website. Here is something interesting from Disney's 1975 Annual Report detailing what World Showcase was to be about:



So, according to that bold part, any attraction built into a World Showcase pavilion would bring guests to that country and give it a little taste of its culture, heritage and history. So, please, defenders of the rat and all things Frozen, how do you get Norwegian culture, heritage and HISTORY from an American animated movie taking place in a made up land?

Oh and BTW, due to THIS bold line, um, Maelstrom no longer can be called a FANTASY ride. Blew that argument out of the water. Another defender fail. Next?

Lies! All lies! Disney never said anything about World Showcase. It's always been about marketing films and what people like regardless if it is a perfect fit.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

OK, reasons Frozen shouldn't replace Maelstom in the Norwegian Pavilion:

1. Goes against the World Showcase Mission Statement of highlighting the actual culture, history, and people of a real place.

2. Maelstrom has HORRIBLE capacity.

3. Ride system too short. 4 possibly 5 show scenes is going to disappoint after waiting 6 hours because of it's 996 pph capacity.

4. Much more appropriate locations around the property where it would be so much bigger and better.

Reasons to replace Maelstrom with Frozen:

1. Cheap+Cash Cow=Executive$$$Bonusgasm

 

[Texas84]

Well at this point then what to do about it is the question. If some folks are not content with this then berating a bunch of posters on a internet forum who they don't agree with is not going to change much. But a lot of energy spent doing just that.

The crowds are going to suck in WS when it opens. I plan to avoid at all cost when it first opens. But they will level off at some point I think.

That's my only worry. Are they going to build a Mexico bypass? It's already a bottleneck.

 

[BrianLo]

I just find it amusing that Disney thinks the Norwegian culture is so vacuous that the best way to "showcase" their culture is with a ride based on "Not Norway!"

More like Norway is not willing to pay Disney to showcase their culture properly, so Disney would rather showcase themselves. It all comes down to money, as usual.

And that's the crux of it really, the model Epcot was designed to operate with (countries having a vested interest in their own pavilion) has fallen apart. Is it better than stagnation? I think so, but I'm certainly not upset if people feel the opposite.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Frozen is an American adaption of a Danish story about a Russian Princess, set in a fictional land.

So America+Denmark+Russia+fictional location=Norway.
Got it!

I don't think Snow Queen was officially set in Russia. It's just that Russia produced one of the best adaptations of that story period and in fact, said film was what inspired Hayao Miyazaki to stay in animation.

Also a casual reminder that the only princess in the actual Snow Queen is a side character that offers some small assistance to Gerda's journey.

 

[TeriofTerror]

Posting after a glass of (really good) wine on an empty stomach, which is obviously a bad decision on my part, but here it goes:
Can people please stop talking about how films/characters promoting South America belong in the Mexico Pavilion? Because the last time I checked, Mexico was in North America. I'm not debating whether or not the characters belong, I'm just objecting to the geographical juxtaposition.
Whew. I'm glad I got that off my chest.
Now where's that bottle of wine?

 

[Cesar R M]

No. LOTR was written as English mythology so it would be based in the UK areas of WS IMO.

People are going to see the areas/sets where the films were shot in New Zealand. It's a live action movie so that makes sense, going to be hard to go see where Frozen was shot at

But if New Zealand want to build a pavilion and feature LOTR I would be fine with it, since the WS was designed to promote countires and the films clearly show the incredible beauty of New Zealand I could see the fit. Seeing the movies made me want to go to New Zealand for sure.

Where in my post that you quoted did I say that? Heck, where did ANYONE say that?

probably in his magical mind where Disney never is wrong always right on everything.

 

[Cesar R M]

And Pinocchio in the Germany Pavilion because the Alpine aesthetic is more relatable to the Bavarian influence than it is to the Venetian and Neopolitain influences that dominate the Italy Pavilion.


Yeah, it was. I believe the then (and maybe even the current) portfolio leader of Epcot was on the panel too.


Again, the ideas behind World Showcase are rather well documented. You've already said that you do not know or care what it is about, so it's amazing that you keep insisting that it is and has been something else.

I think the saddest part is, when this person talks about mythology and doesn't even know what mythology really means.

Posting after a glass of (really good) wine on an empty stomach, which is obviously a bad decision on my part, but here it goes:
Can people please stop talking about how films/characters promoting South America belong in the Mexico Pavilion? Because the last time I checked, Mexico was in North America. I'm not debating whether or not the characters belong, I'm just objecting to the geographical juxtaposition.
Whew. I'm glad I got that off my chest.
Now where's that bottle of wine?

I think I have said it many times.. but as a Mexican, I still have no idea what Donald as to do with Mexico.

 

[AEfx]

The fact it's in the Norway pavilion is also a big clue.

No crap, Sherlock.

That's exactly what I said, LOL - if you take that ride and stick it anywhere else, no one would say "Ohhh! That was about the spirit of Norway!" except, as you pointed out, the brief audio cue in the ride that has to come out and tell you.

I hate the folks are making me sound like I'm tearing up Maelstrom - I think it's a great little dark ride, I'm sorry to see it go, but it also isn't very popular and isn't what some folks are making it sound like all of a sudden that it's going to depart.

Again, increasing tourism does not make a fictional work more relevant to the pavilion in question....

Again, dismissing the fact that tourism has increased 37% in Norway due to the film is incredible and shows a clear connection between them in the minds of the public, as designs from the film were pulled from actual historical sites in Norway.

This is not about changing WS for the better, no part of some grand scheme, it's not about changing an identity. It's about the using the quickest, easiest, cheapest way to put the Frozen IP into the parks.

WDW is supposed to have guests who expect a high standard.

For you it may be, but for most folks it's all about the fact there are characters.

FWIW, I agree - Disney is a cheapskate when it comes to WDW and should be ashamed of themselves - but that's no newsflash, it's the story of the last decade and everything they have (and more importantly, have not) done.

 

[AEfx]

Oh they will, just not here (and it won't be a water ride). That's what happens when people accept and justify every decision. They won't feel the need to do any better than "just fine".

There is plenty of documentation regarding the goals of EPCOT Center. Disney today doesn't talk about theme parks except in fluffy terms of magic. A few years ago during IAAPA a panel of Imagineers, except Tony Baxter, were unable to answer a question about the different identities of the Walt Disney World theme parks.

Show me.

Instead of constantly dismissing what I am saying, talking down to myself and others personally vs. having a discussion about the situation itself and not your grand view of what WS should be, and continuously serving up rhetoric - show me where Disney has stated that characters are not supposed to be in World Showcase, or that they would never put an animated-based ride in the park.

It's ironic that you said earlier that attractions don't exist in a vacuum, yet, you want it to be vacuum sealed according to these supposed rules that didn't even exist to begin with.

 

[AEfx]

I know that the crowd arguing back and forth here has no interest in, you know, actual facts - but here is a Norwegian who seems to disagree with folks and thinks that there is quite a bit of Norway in Frozen...

Norwegian Connections in Frozen
Posted on 01/03/2014 by filmroller
I have finally watched Frozen, and as a Norwegian I had a pretty great time finding some of the Norwegian elements in the film. The tourist website, Visit Norway is already using the film to do a bit of promotion. There is no doubt the film has a lot of Scandinavian elements, and I thought I’d catalogue just a few details I caught on my first viewing.

First a short review (spoilers):


I enjoyed it as much as I expected to enjoy a new Disney movie (which is a lot). The film was beautiful, it had a really good main song, and all the characters were either funny or interesting. As for criticisms, I think there were too many songs, even for Disney, and I think the film could have been even bigger in scope. I think the limited time-line (the town is only frozen about a day and a half) made it feel like a smaller story than it was.

Maybe if they had made the town suffer for longer, or had isolated Queen Elsa for a longer time, the film might have had a bit more weight. As a Disney-phile I automatically compare her isolation with the Beast, who was stuck in his castle for years. It’s a shame her beautiful ice-castle couldn’t have ruled over the land for a few years to create a sense of foreboding. I wanted more ice-monsters and actual journeying for our heros.

All that said, I still enjoyed it a lot, and I especially enjoyed the elements below.

Location: Arendal

Frozen is set in the town of Arendelle, which Norwegians will interpret as Arendal. Arendal is a lovely town in the south of Norway. Pictured below with its fictional counterpart:

Arendal obviously lacks the mountains featured in Frozen, and the landscape of the film much more resembles the fjords and mountains of western Norway. Southern Norway is far from flat (ask any Dane who strays too far north), but like the Marvel universe that likes to butcher the geography of Tønsberg, Frozen seems to have picked the wrong name for their city. I guess it does sound a bit fairy-tale-ish in English, and I bet pronunciation was a factor. I will be interested to see if the Norwegian dub uses the regular pronunciation. I’m sure all the kids from Arendal will love that.

Architecture

Like the geography, the houses of the town of Arendelle more resemble the architecture of the western town of Bergen, arguably one of Norway’s most beautiful cities architecturally speaking, and certainly the most famous. The docks are on UNESCO’s world heritage list. Look at the details on the houses by the docks in Arendelle below, and compare with Bergen:

The castle of Arendelle has fortifications that aren’t very Norwegian, and is more Disney castle design. The main building, however, is clearly inspired by the traditional Norwegian stave church.

One last bit of architecture I noticed was the hall of Elsa’s coronation:

As akh pointed out on reddit (Hi r/norway btw. You explain why this post suddenly exploded in traffic The coronation hall is above all inspired by stave church interiors. Take a look at the similarities with Borgund stave church (really worth a visit!)



Patterns and costumes

A lot of the townspeople’s clothes are inspired by Norwegian bunads. I can’t pinpoint which ones exactly, as there as so many styles and patterns to chose from. Some details I found very typical of the Ofotbunad, but there are many others with similar elements. You see patterns inspired from them on the walls and furniture. One particular detail I found hilarious is that the trolls put them into traditional marriage crowns. They are so expensive families rarely own one themselves, so some cities or counties still rent them out to brides.

One whose costume is very clearly a bunad is Hans. His bunad most resembles one from East-Telemark (Telemark is considered the cradle of skiing and is located in Eastern Norway) Note the pattern on the bottom of his jacket. He has a few added military elements to make him more royal, and sadly does not wear the correct trousers.

A lot of the patterns seen on the sisters’ dresses and on walls and doors are very reminiscent of traditional Norwegian rose painting, an art form very much alive and well. Edit: I found an article on Disney’s style blog (apparently that’s a thing, cool) about all the rose painting in the movie!

Second Edit: more rosemaling! I went up to our cabin recently and it was filled with rose-painted stuff. So I took some pictures to use as examples.

The last picture is a brand of brown cheese. I included it because all of that brand’s brown cheeses have those rose painted corners, and they definitely reminded me of some of the details I saw in Frozen. Compare with details from the dresses:

A more direct pattern borrowed for the film is the very famous Selbu-pattern, primarily used on mittens. We see the pattern on the girls’ bedroom doors and duvets. I think this pattern is what most Norwegians will recognize immediately, and if you’re ever in a Norwegian souvenir shop, you can be sure they’ll have something with this pattern on it.

Those were a few details I noticed on my first viewing of Frozen, and despite some geographical confusion, the film has a beautiful Scandinavian/Northern European style throughout. I love How to Train Your Dragon as much as the next person,but I don’t think anyone can create a fantastical version of a culture quite like Disney.

But as usual, I'm sure this will be entirely dismissed, because no one knows Norway better than a bunch of folks who have walked through the pavilion at Epcot over the last 30 years...

 

[Mike S]

Show me.

Instead of constantly dismissing what I am saying, talking down to myself and others personally vs. having a discussion about the situation itself and not your grand view of what WS should be, and continuously serving up rhetoric - show me where Disney has stated that characters are not supposed to be in World Showcase, or that they would never put an animated-based ride in the park.

It's ironic that you said earlier that attractions don't exist in a vacuum, yet, you want it to be vacuum sealed according to these supposed rules that didn't even exist to begin with.

Check @Captain Chaos's post on page 132 where Disney said just that.

 

[wm49rs]

No crap, Sherlock.

That's exactly what I said, LOL - if you take that ride and stick it anywhere else, no one would say "Ohhh! That was about the spirit of Norway!" except, as you pointed out, the brief audio cue in the ride that has to come out and tell you.

I hate the folks are making me sound like I'm tearing up Maelstrom - I think it's a great little dark ride, I'm sorry to see it go, but it also isn't very popular and isn't what some folks are making it sound like all of a sudden that it's going to depart.



Again, dismissing the fact that tourism has increased 37% in Norway due to the film is incredible and shows a clear connection between them in the minds of the public, as designs from the film were pulled from actual historical sites in Norway.



For you it may be, but for most folks it's all about the fact there are characters.

FWIW, I agree - Disney is a cheapskate when it comes to WDW and should be ashamed of themselves - but that's no newsflash, it's the story of the last decade and everything they have (and more importantly, have not) done.

Yes, and the increase of tourism to New Zealand obviously showed the same. Or not....

For the last time, capitalizing on tourism from a fictional film doesn't increase the specious idea that one is the same as an actual country, no matter how many times the same argument is trotted out....

 

[AEfx]

The Haunted Mansion tells you its "the Haunted Mansion" on the ride...
The Tower of Terror says you're in the "Tower of Terror" on the ride...

A lot of attractions do that. It's not exclusive to Maelstrom. I'm not even sure what your point is with that, but if you can't tell you're on a ride about pirates after riding past dozens of AA pirates in what looks like a Caribbean town, then you're just not paying attention.

With all due respect, if you are going to hop on a thread and reply to someone, you should at least familiarize yourself with the recent posts in the discussion that are relevant.

You actually just proved my point, though - you don't need to be told on most rides what it's about. Maelstrom, if it wasn't for the signage and that audio clip, if most guests were brought backstage to the loading area and dumped on the ride they wouldn't know what the heck it was about, and I'm betting a tiny tiny percentage of folks would think it had anything to do with Norway. The last scene could easily be Alaska, for example.

 

[Matt_Black]

Actually, it isn't more complicated than that. Blaming sponsors is a cop-out.
It's Disney's park. The onus is on them to invest in rides and attractions, and to frequently and regularly update them. Sponsors are are entirely unnecessary luxury.

That's like saying it's all on a network to provide TV programs, totally discounting the importance of paid advertisers.

 

[Mike S]

I know that the crowd arguing back and forth here has no interest in, you know, actual facts - but here is a Norwegian who seems to disagree with folks and thinks that there is quite a bit of Norway in Frozen...





But as usual, I'm sure this will be entirely dismissed, because no one knows Norway better than a bunch of folks who have walked through the pavilion at Epcot over the last 30 years...

Here's my opinion on this. By all means put Frozen in the Norway pavilion, but don't take it over with it. They could easily build a new building or small outdoor area where that old playground used to be for M&G's with Anna, Elsa, Kristoff etc. like how all the other characters in WS have small M&G's. Don't make it the main attraction. Maelstrom could and should've gotten a proper update but no, we're getting this cheap refurd/takeover shoved down our throats.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No crap, Sherlock.

That's exactly what I said, LOL - if you take that ride and stick it anywhere else, no one would say "Ohhh! That was about the spirit of Norway!" except, as you pointed out, the brief audio cue in the ride that has to come out and tell you.

I hate the folks are making me sound like I'm tearing up Maelstrom - I think it's a great little dark ride, I'm sorry to see it go, but it also isn't very popular and isn't what some folks are making it sound like all of a sudden that it's going to depart.



Again, dismissing the fact that tourism has increased 37% in Norway due to the film is incredible and shows a clear connection between them in the minds of the public, as designs from the film were pulled from actual historical sites in Norway.

How many people would connect the film to Norway without being told? By your own standard of people knowing without mention the new attraction fails in the exact same way you claim Maelstrom fails.

 

[AEfx]

Just read Yesterland website. Here is something interesting from Disney's 1975 Annual Report detailing what World Showcase was to be about:

ROFLMAO.

First, can you count the other ten things from that press release that were not in the final park, seven years later? Like, every pavilion having an attraction, to begin with? Or the PeopleMover system that was supposed to give a tour?

Seriously, you guys are grasping at straws here - when WS opened in 1982 it was no more than it is today - a beautiful staging area for various activities like eating, drinking, and shopping. It is no closer to that PR piece written 40 years ago, the decade before it even opened - you might as well be pulling Walt's EPCOT out while you are at it, LOL.

There is also nothing in there that says "we will not include characters in Epcot".

So, according to that bold part, any attraction built into a World Showcase pavilion would bring guests to that country and give it a little taste of its culture, heritage and history. So, please, defenders of the rat and all things Frozen, how do you get Norwegian culture, heritage and HISTORY from an American animated movie taking place in a made up land?

Oh, I already thoughtfully provided the link above to a NORWEGIAN who has quite an interesting piece demonstrating exactly that - Norwegian Connections in Frozen.

As she says, "Those were a few details I noticed on my first viewing of Frozen, and despite some geographical confusion, the film has a beautiful Scandinavian/Northern European style throughout. I love How to Train Your Dragon as much as the next person, but I don’t think anyone can create a fantastical version of a culture quite like Disney."

Gee, that sure SOUNDS like it fits into even that outdated description you posted...

But what does a Norwegian know that we don't, right?

Oh and BTW, due to THIS bold line, um, Maelstrom no longer can be called a FANTASY ride. Blew that argument out of the water. Another defender fail. Next?

Totally sorry, perhaps it's my monitor playing tricks on me - can you show me where Nordic Gods and Trolls were suddenly taken from the realm of fantasy and put into reality? We gotta get on that man - start a CNN iReport or something - folks gotta know! If those are suddenly real due to this discovery, who knows what else might be real? THERE COULD BE DRAGONS! And if so, I'm sure Disney has a crack team out there getting ready to capture one and bring it home and put it in it's "natural" environment constructed out of plexiglass and cement as only Disney knows how.