News Disney CFO Christine McCarthy says Disney will continue to focus on existing intellectual property for new park investments

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Thee possibilities for a theme park attraction are endless
exactly, just like film, so then why are we only limiting ourselves to (in essence). Remakes and sequels to things that already were made or adapted by the ‘same company’ rather than new, original content nor yet done. You’re needlessly limiting yourself from a thematic, narrative, and storytelling standpoint for no reason other than completely narrow minded thinking.
 
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BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
Doesn't change who makes the decision on what they buy. WDI is the design team, but OLC is the customer who decides what they want or will buy.

Which is why WDI often pitches the best stuff to OLC because of their history of willingness to invest and/or be bold.

The fact they use WDI is the whole reason I referenced OLC... because it disproves the 'banned' commentary from before. If it were banned, WDI wouldn't have anything to pitch to OLC :)
I really like this Tokyo example, I never would’ve thought to compare this.

Franchises & “IP” can be timeless, and most are, especially when they’re engrained in Disney Parks history. Peter Pans Flight opened for the first time over 60 years ago, and remains a hallmark at all castle parks, while it has seen a few changes.

Tokyo Disneysea is currently building a massive expansion, themed to Tangled, Peter Pan & Frozen. They chose to build this, and WDI designed it for them. Disneys “IP mandate” doesn’t apply to Tokyo, they build what they want.

The thing with Tokyo is, as @Inspired Figment said... they don't have their own WDI. So the fact that Tokyo is building IP attractions now just reflects the fact that those are the ideas WDI is proposing them.

And this is something I have been saying for a while.... even if there was no IP mandate, would the WDI of today even be interested in creating original attractions? I think the culture has changed a lot over the course or Iger's executive tenure, and I don't think today's WDI would ever build something original like a Harambe/Anandapur or Journey into Imagination. Sad to think about but it's reality I think. I can't see original attractions in the parks any time soon
 
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Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
A film? Yeah. A theme park attraction? No.
Not only what I just mentioned before, but how can you say that when there are countless examples of successful theme park attractions not limiting themselves by strictly being tied to a film IP? It’s about ‘balance’ of offerings. Not about going strictly one way or the other about it (that being familiar film or tv tie-ins or new, original content.)
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
If Disney Plus was strictly full of sequels & remakes to shows & films that already exist and nothing new or original to offer. It wouldn’t be all that long lasting or innovative or a great business model, would it?
 

BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
A film? Yeah. A theme park attraction? No. Thee possibilities for a theme park attraction are endless, I think we will see in the future (when Fantasy Springs opens) that it’ll probably be one of the best examples of IPs in the parks. Disney has built truly amazing lands based on IP, Cars Land & Pandora come to mind.

This is nuts to me man...

You must understand that theme park design is an art form... not allowing WDI to create their own IPs for their own attractions is EXACTLY the same.... exactly the same as not letting WDAS create their own IP for their own animated films. Forcing WDI to only create attractions based on established IP is the EXACT SAME as forcing WDAS to only make sequels and spin offs. It's categorically bad for the artistic medium of theme park design, just as it would be for filmmaking. Because both are art forms.... and telling creatives they have to copy someone else's homework is bad for creativity.
 

BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
Also, saying "IP can be done well" is a strawman *logical fallacy. It's true, but it's also not relevant. Sequels/adaptations can be done well too, but that doesn't mean it's okay for TWDC to only produce sequels and adaptations, and never create any new film concepts..
 
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MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
That makes absolutely no sense. Film also utilizes different techniques and technology to accomplish things. It’s simply a different entertainment medium, nothing more, nothing less
Let me rephrase what I am trying to say.

Do I acknowledge that using pre-existing IP can be limiting to a creative team? Yes.

With that being said, it doesn't have to. Examples of this on the film side, have their root in Disney animated classics, The Little Mermaid, Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty, all of which have their roots in stories that have almost zero semblance to their animated counterparts.

Examples of this on the theme park side, Pandora: The World of Avatar, they basically stripped the IP down to its parts, broke it up, and revisited it through the lens of DAK. They were able to come up with a unique story that grounded Avatar (the IP) into the DNA of the park. We're visiting a moon that has been devastated by the RDA, which is now being rehabilitated by the PCI and ACI. I could go and on about the lore of Pandora, but I feel I have made my point.

In my own post, I acknowledged that there have been some bad examples that can definitely fuel the IP is limiting, like Frozen Ever After, and Voyage of the Little Mermaid: Ariel's Undersea Adventure.

The point that I am trying to get across here is that IP doesn't have to be limiting, you can develop great "original" attractions, like Rise of the Resistance, Flight of Passage, and Radiator Springs Racers to name a few, based on "IPs".

You must understand that theme park design is an art form... not allowing WDI to create their own IPs for their own attractions is EXACTLY the same.... exactly the same as not letting WDAS create their own IP for their own animated films. Forcing WDI to only create attractions based on established IP is the EXACT SAME as forcing WDAS to only make sequels and spin offs. It's categorically bad for the artistic medium of theme park design, just as it would be for filmmaking. Because both are art forms.... and telling creatives they have to copy someone else's homework is bad for creativity.
Disney has certainly created sequels, no denying that, but WDAS and Pixar have also created several original films while producing sequels. The same can't be said for the parks in that case though. Far fewer original attractions (Non-IP) have been created in the same time of the sequels and new films from WDAS/Pixar.

I am going to assume we are stepping away from the IP=Bad conversation, as I said earlier in this post "Do I acknowledge that using pre-existing IP can be limiting to a creative team? Yes."

I think that assuming using existing IP to create a theme park attraction is "bad for creativity" is just as limiting, to the conversation at hand.

Regardless of all of this conjecture, we know that Disney is going to continue to predominately create IP-based attractions.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
but that doesn't mean it's okay for TWDC to only produce sequels and adaptations, and never create any new film concepts..
But this isn't happening... I don't understand how this can be the bedrock of so many people's IP argument. Disney has produced several new films in recent years, and when those get brought up, the argument shifts to, well those weren't good films, so it's not relevant.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
The thing with Tokyo is, as @Inspired Figment said... they don't have their own WDI. So the fact that Tokyo is building IP attractions now just reflects the fact that those are the ideas WDI is proposing them.

And this is something I have been saying for a while.... even if there was no IP mandate, would the WDI of today even be interested in creating original attractions? I think the culture has changed a lot over the course or Iger's executive tenure, and I don't think today's WDI would ever build something original like a Harambe/Anandapur or Journey into Imagination. Sad to think about but it's reality I think. I can't see original attractions in the parks any time soon
If OLC wanted a brand new original, non-IP-based attraction, all they would have to do is ask. They clearly aren't.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Also, saying "IP can be done well" is a strawman. It's true, but it's also not relevant. Sequels/adaptations can be done well too, but that doesn't mean it's okay for TWDC to only produce sequels and adaptations, and never create any new film concepts..
I’d say it’s less a strawman and moreso a misunderstanding of the issue/question. There’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. NOONE is saying that Film/TV IP = bad. Overuse/‘Strict’ reliance on ‘Film/TV IP Only’ while constantly removing/sidelining park original content and failing to produce more and/or to the quality standards they held initially is the problem. We’re asking for ‘Balance’. Not strictly one way or the other.
 
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Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
But this isn't happening... I don't understand how this can be the bedrock of so many people's IP argument. Disney has produced several new films in recent years, and when those get brought up, the argument shifts to, well those weren't good films, so it's not relevant.
It’s absolutely happening in the parks when it wasn’t the case before. This is why it’s relevant to this discussion.
 

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
It’s absolutely happening in the parks. This is why it’s relevant to this discussion.
I said that in my own post above.

I understand where many people are coming from, but I don't personally 100% agree with everyone's points of view on it. I think that many have shifted to the view that they want to "enter the worlds they see on screen", in the theme parks. Which is what Disney is shifting towards.

If TWDC was just the Disney Parks, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. I say this because they are leveraging their other brands into their biggest money maker, the parks. I agree with you that it can be limiting, I am arguing that it doesn't have to be.

I do hope that some day we see something truly original like Thunder Mesa/Western River Expedition expansion, but that is not the current trajectory of the parks, however, you are entitled to your opinion and to continue to discuss how you'd like the parks to be.
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
If OLC wanted a brand new original, non-IP-based attraction, all they would have to do is ask. They clearly aren't.
Of course. They were basically forced to build DisneySea and have spent the last 20 years dragging it kicking and screaming into the park they actually wanted, which was Disneyland 2.

My favorite example of this is the Miracosta hotel in the conference center. WDI flew out a whole bunch of artists to hand paint all the murals, aiming for an authentic Italian renaissance style. Just before opening OLC made them add characters to all of them, clearly painted over the top with thick black outlines. Same thing happened at the Ambassador hotel - compare photos from Bob Stern's website to photos of what the lobby looks like today.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
But this isn't happening... I don't understand how this can be the bedrock of so many people's IP argument. Disney has produced several new films in recent years, and when those get brought up, the argument shifts to, well those weren't good films, so it's not relevant.
It’s a contribution to said problem.. Disney has such a lack of faith in their successful talent & legacy of said talent and promotes poor talent that continues to fail upwards and holds little to no accountability. Their answer then is to maquarade their poor talent in imagery & nostalgia of the good talent that once was (while also failing to understand or respect the fundamental qualities of it) as opposed to giving better talent a chance and respecting & understanding the qualities of their past in order to continue it tastefully & successfully. People can only buy into the lie for so long until they finally realize they’ve been fooled and go elsewhere to find a suitable replacement for the talent they long for & enjoy.
 
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BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
I’d say it’s less a strawman and moreso a misunderstanding of the issue/question. There’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. NOONE is saying that Film/TV IP = bad. Overuse/‘Strict’ reliance on ‘Film/TV IP Only’ while constantly removing park original content and failing to produce more is the problem. We’re asking for ‘Balance’. Not strictly one way or the other.

Well yes you're right it isn't a strawman, I misspoke. It's a logical fallacy in that while true it is also not relevant to the discussion at hand. The point isn't whether IP is good or bad, high or low quality. It can be either. The problem is that creativity is stifled when we only allow things to be created based on IP, rather than allowing original ideas/creations as well.
 

BlakeW39

Well-Known Member
@MagicHappens1971 you're misunderstanding us. Yes we know WDAS doesn't only produce sequels... we're saying that the IP mandate is creatively equivalent to TWDC only allowing WDAS to produce sequels. It's basically telling the creatives across an entire medium of artistic design...that they can't come up with any new creative ideas and must only create sequels and adaptations of already existing media, in this case, whatever movie franchises are popular at the moment. Can you imagine if Disney did this to WDAS? Probably not, because for all Iger's flaws he never treated WDAS creatives with as little respect as he has Walt Disney Imagineering. "Generic coaster themed to India or whatever"....imagine if he had said, "generic kids film with lions or whatever." exactly. Super disrespectful to theme park design as an art form.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
@MagicHappens1971 you're misunderstanding us. Yes we know WDAS doesn't only produce sequels... we're saying that the IP mandate is creatively equivalent to TWDC only allowing WDAS to produce sequels. It's basically telling the creatives across an entire medium of artistic design...that they can't come up with any new creative ideas and must only create sequels and adaptations of already existing media, in this case, whatever movie franchises are popular at the moment. Can you imagine if Disney did this to WDAS? Probably not, because for all Iger's flaws he never treated WDAS creatives with as little respect as he has Walt Disney Imagineering. "Generic coaster themed to India or whatever"....imagine if he had said, "generic kids film with lions or whatever." exactly. Super disrespectful to theme park design as an art form.
Truth be told though man, they are. Re-read what I brought up in my last post. Throughout the entire company it’s struggling with much of the same issues. Infact, they rely far more on sequels and remakes while failing to understand & respect the core foundations and qualities work. Thus they fail critically (and Most importantly audience wise) and as a result, future works do less well financially. (This includes new original works, though not all have been failures) Including animated & live action films. (And as a reflection, theme parks aswell and their focus on poorly done IP tie ins and only that) Heartbreaking is an understatement to describe what’s happening throughout the entirety of The Walt Disney Company
 
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JD80

Well-Known Member
It’s a contribution to said problem.. Disney has such a lack of faith in their successful talent & legacy of said talent and promotes poor talent that continues to fail upwards and holds little to no accountability. Their answer then is to maquarade their poor talent in imagery & nostalgia of the good talent that once was (while also failing to understand or respect the fundamental qualities of it) as opposed to giving better talent a chance and respecting & understanding the qualities of their past in order to continue it tastefully & successfully. People can only buy into the lie for so long until they finally realize they’ve been fooled and go elsewhere to find a suitable replacement for the talent they long for & enjoy.

What are you even talking about. Disney doesn't have lack of faith in WDI. They are betting that with their limited dollars to build attractions, the safest bet is extremely popular movies and stories. Like Moana.

Again this is an either or argument when the people are actively decided where to spend $500M in the parks. Do we spend money investing in the Moana franchise, or do we take a bold step towards creating a brand new set of stories and characters?

If Disney was building/designing one attraction a quarter, sure. There would be room for inventing new IP just for the parks. But that's just not the what is happening.

I had a list a few pages ago with different movies that have no representation in the parks. Disney is rumored to expand AK and maybe MK after that. If your job and reputation relied on those investments to be successful. Would you bet on the likes of Moana and Encanto and whatever list of Villains you can think of.

Or would you bank on creating something new?

This also includes future revenue streams like park attendance, hotel occupancy, merch etc.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Re-read my post. This time carefully. I didn’t say Disney didn’t have faith in their current talent. (Which only fails upwards and they never seem to take care of the problem) I said they had a lack of faith in & respect for their legacy/past along with the qualities and talent that both held & holds true to those tried & true qualities that made Disney as successful as they had been for so many years. (Ones who are usually let go sooner than later, despite their works & values proving current management’s thinking wrong)
 
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JD80

Well-Known Member
@MagicHappens1971 you're misunderstanding us. Yes we know WDAS doesn't only produce sequels... we're saying that the IP mandate is creatively equivalent to TWDC only allowing WDAS to produce sequels. It's basically telling the creatives across an entire medium of artistic design...that they can't come up with any new creative ideas and must only create sequels and adaptations of already existing media, in this case, whatever movie franchises are popular at the moment. Can you imagine if Disney did this to WDAS?

You think the creative people at WDI though it was a bummer they had to create a life sized Millennium Falcon?
 

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