News Disney CEO Bob Chapek reiterates his belief that park reservations are now an essential part of Disney's theme parks business

[CaptainAmerica]

Maybe Disney is just one of those places that is amazing when you are new to it and the problems become more and more apparent as the newness wears off.

Or when there isn't a global pandemic that fundamentally rearranges the worldwide economy. Might have something to do with it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Or when there isn't a global pandemic that fundamentally rearranges the worldwide economy. Might have something to do with it.

That would explain today but not the constant complaints 10 years ago, and probably long before I joined.

There’s never been a shortage of things to complain about, whether this year, 5 years ago, or a decade ago.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Free-roaming characters were a nightmare.

They weren’t when I was a kid at WDW and they don’t appear to be now at Disneyland.

 

[Chi84]

To be fair, if you didn't attend the parks 25 years ago, you'd have no frame of reference for it to be a significantly diminished experience since then.

It can still be good for new (or relatively new) guests without being as good as it once was. Which is why Disney doesn't really need to care about people comparing it to what it was in the 1990s; they only need current guests to find it enjoyable enough to want to return.

My first visit was as an adult in 1984 and we've visited nearly every year since then. So I definitely have the frame of reference you're mentioning, although I concede that most visitors do not. I personally do not feel WDW is a significantly diminished experience. Yes, things change and some changes mean more to some than others. Some appreciate more exclusive events even though they are expensive; others find they diminish the total experience. Price increases affect some people more than others. Some visit a single park from open to close; others like to split the day and concentrate on entertainment, boat rides, shows, resorts, water parks, etc.

When we first visited, standby was the only option but we were young so it didn't matter. When we had kids it got much harder until the first FastPass system was introduced. Things improved steadily in that regard and became perfect for us with FP+. The current system is nowhere near as good, but that didn't happen until 2021.

I believe it's a mistake to think people are just barely enjoying themselves or that they are enjoying themselves only because they don't know enough to realize they are accepting a diminished experience. Disney doesn't want people to find the experience just "enjoyable enough" to return. They want people excited to return, and despite what you see on some of these threads, there are a whole lot of those people out there. That's why the parks are crowded.

 

[doctornick]

Where could they move IASW to?

Well, there’s plenty of potential space in MK if that’s what you’re asking. If you remove the building, you open up a nice sized corridor between the main access road for the Utilidors (right north of Village Haus) and the back of HM. They could easily rebuild IASW into that are further north, perhaps turned 90 degrees clockwise so it’s “back” is against the access road covering it. That would open up a bunch of space that could be used for Fantasyland expansion for all sorts of stuff (e.g. Tangled, Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, etc) that could fit. And from there it would be easy to connect to the proposed Villains land, which would be a nice transition.

Heck, you could do that and still do a riverside path west of HM to connect to Villains as well which would really open up crowd flow.

Not to mention they could maybe use the DL façade on a new IASW and do the projection show on it that is done in DL.

That all being said, personally I’ve always felt that the best thing to do for IASW would be to rebuilt it in Epcot. I’ve always thought it would fit well next to UK so it’s the first thing you encounter coming in through the International Gateway “welcoming” you to World Showcase.

 

[hopemax]

It can still be good for new (or relatively new) guests without being as good as it once was. Which is why Disney doesn't really need to care about people comparing it to what it was in the 1990s; they only need current guests to find it enjoyable enough to want to return.

Sometimes I wonder... in amidst all the corporate speak, and guest experience hokum, if there isn't a tiny bit of truth coming out of Chapek's statements. That the reason the family from Denver who comes every five years is suddenly on the lips of Disney's CEO is because they *are* having a retention problem with this demo. They are still attracting the "lifestyle" Disney fan (and by this I mean people who buy APs and/or DVC because they return frequently, not necessarily the food/merch lifestylers) but the "one and dones" have increased. For the casual fan, the lines are likely the biggest issue. They could deal with the increased cost IF they were able to get more done, waiting less. During the FP+ years which lifestyle fans adopted easily, I always suspected the casuals were being shut out by not knowing which attractions, and the procedures for securing those FPs at a high enough rate. As demonstrated by the Shapeland simulation. Which is why Genie+ is "day of." There are a whole host of new problems, but at least with Genie+ the casual can adjust on the spot... if they didn't know about Genie on Day 1, they could book it for Day2, 3, etc. While FP+ if you didn't do it, you were screwed the whole trip for headliners. Problem for Disney is anything they could do to improve the experience for casuals would improve the experience for the lifestylers and they will exploit as they do everything else.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This board is not a representative sample of guests, nor are COVID and COVID-recovery representative time periods.

The labor shortage is real. Supply chain issues are real. Inflation is real. "Revenge travel" was real. The looming recession is real.

I'm not saying that Chapek will be a lavish spender once normal times get here again. All I'm saying is we haven't actually seen him at the helm during normal times to say one way or the other.

The trends of Disney trying to offer the bare minimum long pre-date the pandemic. Entire parks built to be the bare minimum. The Magic Kingdom had less dining capacity today than 30 years ago before the pandemic. You don’t get to that sort of situation where the world’s busiest theme park is lacking in that sort of revenue generating capacity just by trying to maximize efficiency. That’s a result of deciding people can and will put up with a lot more.

 

[el_super]

To be fair, if you didn't attend the parks 25 years ago, you'd have no frame of reference for it to be a significantly diminished experience since then.

Someone who went 35 years ago could still find the place enjoyable. This sort of logical dead end, of just assuming people are too dumb to act in their own best interest, is preventing you from fully understanding what is going on in the parks. It's far more complicated and diverse than the same tired arguments that get posted here every day.

Is it Supe’s day off or something?

Nope... still here. But I did have a lot of candy already sooooo... maybe check back tomorrow..

 

[TalkingHead]

The differences in the way I view Disney at 33 and the way I viewed Disney at 8 are not just differences with Disney, they're also differences with me.

Yeah, things were a lot more magical when we all believed in magic.

…in which the customer-unfriendly hassles of modern parkgoing are reduced to clap if you believe in fairies. Sure.

 

[GimpYancIent]

They know the baseline that must be delivered to get people to respond positively. That’s the aim, that minimum. It’s not about wildly exceeding expectations, just hitting that bare minimum. That means pushing things like waits and crowding to just the right point.

Justifiably you give credit for "just hitting the bare minimum" not something to brag about.

 

[flynnibus]

This board is not a representative sample of guests, nor are COVID and COVID-recovery representative time periods.

It's actually much worse when your most loyal fans are starting to wane...

And the sentiment is not unique to these boards. Don't confuse your distaste for those you think as overreacting with the large scale trend you really do see.. which is scores of disney forever fans starting to say "enough is enough"

 

[flynnibus]

That’s exactly what Disney is doing though, finding the exact minimum it requires to keep people coming back.

Yes, that's what I said before... but I still don't agree that is the same as "Right amount of miserable and right amount of happy are essentially the same thing."

The breaking point isn't about "right amount" of anything.. it's the point where one side can no longer wash out the other. It's not a balance point between happy and miserable... it's a snapping point where people stop trying to justify or give the benefit of the doubt. There is usually a large band where the person is miserable... but because they have faith or loyalty that this time was unique or that things will get better... so they keep trying.

We agree with Disney trying to find that breaking point.. I just don't agree with your characterization of what it means to customers.

 

[UNCgolf]

I believe it's a mistake to think people are just barely enjoying themselves or that they are enjoying themselves only because they don't know enough to realize they are accepting a diminished experience. Disney doesn't want people to find the experience just "enjoyable enough" to return. They want people excited to return, and despite what you see on some of these threads, there are a whole lot of those people out there. That's why the parks are crowded.

That's not what I was suggesting, although I suppose I can see why it would read that way. I was only pointing that it's not useful to compare the experience of someone visiting now with the experience of someone visiting 30 years ago if they haven't done both; I was not saying it's impossible to enjoy the parks as much (or more) now as then.

A diminished experience is relative. The parks are significantly diminished for me, but that's not a recent thing. They were significantly diminished back in 2010 too -- in fact, they're probably better now than they were then, other than the reservations/Genie+/park hopping restrictions -- but most of that is due to specific, objective changes and not any vague notions of crowding, service, and so on.

It's mainly the loss of attractions I preferred to their replacements and a loss of theming in the shops etc. (this is a big issue at the MK and especially DHS; the whole front of DHS used to be phenomenal) that make it worse for me. EPCOT was the whole reason I fell in love with WDW in the first place, and that version of EPCOT and its attractions are long buried.

But just because it's diminished for me doesn't mean it's automatically worse for newer guests. People want/like different things. Guardians looks mediocre to me but tons of people love it; they're not wrong to love it. It's subjective. I even fall into this category on Na'vi River Journey, which I think is a phenomenal C ticket and one of the best attractions they've built this century, and tons of people hate it!

Someone who went 35 years ago could still find the place enjoyable. This sort of logical dead end, of just assuming people are too dumb to act in their own best interest, is preventing you from fully understanding what is going on in the parks. It's far more complicated and diverse than the same tired arguments that get posted here every day.

See above, although I'll point out you're basically combining arguments from a bunch of different people and assuming they're all saying the same thing. I have never suggested people attending the parks are too dumb to act in their own interests or that people are objectively wrong to enjoy the parks as they are now.

 

[flynnibus]

It’s the theme here. From my experience, it’s not the theme at WDW.

Even yourself have said how your impression towards the place has changed.

If the takeaway from your most loyal customers (not fans... real customers) isn't a canary to be pay attention to, I don't know what can be said. If you really think those customers are throw away and can just be replaced... Disney is mistaken.

Are the people that have no interest in buying a house really going to buy DVC and be 2-3 repeat customers every year?

 

[flynnibus]

To be fair, if you didn't attend the parks 25 years ago, you'd have no frame of reference for it to be a significantly diminished experience since then.

But Disney still has to compete with the alternatives. Disney doesn't necessarily have to compete with 2006 Disney in this audience, but they still have to compete with everything else in 2022. And the idea of all the overhead, complexity and crowding, etc isn't something that exists only because people compare to past Disney.

New visitors have similar grievances.. even if they don't know the old Disney. It's only a question of 'how much is too much?'. Those who know the old Disney are just more inclined to be bothered by their loss where the new folks are just 'is this worth it?' kind of thoughts.

 

[flynnibus]

They want people excited to return, and despite what you see on some of these threads, there are a whole lot of those people out there

The same people they want to court, but coldly refer to as part of an 'unfavorable mix' of attendance? I don't this leadership team thinks in that human of a term as 'excitement' except as an adjective used in PR and marketing. They want an optimal machine more than they care about actual excitement. I don't think they care if you love it or not, as long as you like it enough to come again.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nobody is talking about the rich and famous. I'm talking about the professional class, not friggin' athletes and movie stars.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same

And there's doctors and lawyers
And business executives
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school

And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same

I wasn’t literally talking about the rich and famous…good catch there

What you’re describing is what in days of yore was the “lower upper class”. The Disney clientele was more the “upper middle class”

Now those archetypes have kinda “merged into one”…but the problem is there’s an invisible “ceiling” on it.

Huh? Simple - the demographic Disney draws hasn’t really shifted…it’s the money structure has changed who they are and what they have. And there’s fewer of them that won’t get bored. There really hasn’t been “upward mobility” in this country into that bracket in 50 years. It’s harder to find enough for Disney parks to meet quotas and is gonna keep moving that direction.

Examples question:
What is better for Disney business:
A. 10,000 people in the parks with an annual income of $500,000 and a “worth” of say $3-4 mil?
B. 10,000 people in the parks with about $250,000 in income and comfortable - but more traditional means?

Easy question, right?

 

[flynnibus]

The trends of Disney trying to offer the bare minimum long pre-date the pandemic. Entire parks built to be the bare minimum. The Magic Kingdom had less dining capacity today than 30 years ago before the pandemic. You don’t get to that sort of situation where the world’s busiest theme park is lacking in that sort of revenue generating capacity just by trying to maximize efficiency. That’s a result of deciding people can and will put up with a lot more.

But supply chain!!!!!

We need to cut 'demand' to satisfy crowding....

(As Disney converts more and more property to DVC... Consolidates menus... neglects capacity to seasonal... etc)

Totally a pandemic issue

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair, if you didn't attend the parks 25 years ago, you'd have no frame of reference for it to be a significantly diminished experience since then.

It can still be good for new (or relatively new) guests without being as good as it once was. Which is why Disney doesn't really need to care about people comparing it to what it was in the 1990s; they only need current guests to find it enjoyable enough to want to return.

Very true…

The longer the bobs get away with exploiting…the more the value memory fades. Which is why it’s been repeated on forums for over 10 years. Let it slide and it might “slither” away. It’s why I always talk about block pricing. There’s barbarians on the other side of that river.

It’s always been buyer beware…no matter how many people float in on a cloud of euphoria and tell you how great their recent (repetitive) trip was…

 

[Chi84]

Even yourself have said how your impression towards the place has changed.

If the takeaway from your most loyal customers (not fans... real customers) isn't a canary to be pay attention to, I don't know what can be said. If you really think those customers are throw away and can just be replaced... Disney is mistaken.

Are the people that have no interest in buying a house really going to buy DVC and be 2-3 repeat customers every year?

Disney has changed negatively in some regards, but so have many other businesses these days. Unfortunately, most have become more concerned with how much money they can make than with improving their service. I worry about the downward spiral of increasing prices resulting in fewer guests resulting in increasing prices, etc.

I'm not enamored of the direction Disney has chosen because one of the things that truly drew us to it was its all-inclusive nature along with the opportunity to handle most decisions beforehand and then just enjoy yourself on vacation. Now families have to worry about how to get to WDW from the airport and we don't get to drop our bags at the resort airline check-in. We have to get up in the morning not knowing whether the attractions we had our hearts set on will be available, even for a price. Other people may prefer to rent a car and make "day of" decisions on rides and dining.

But make no mistake - the place is still a great deal of fun. A lot of people who are visiting now are still enjoying themselves and making plans to return.