ppete1975
Well-Known Member
dont forget they are hurting so badly that millionaires are still getting paid and getting bonus's while they layoff thousands
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Disney cancelling shows -- a necessary move
- Thread starter LovePop
- Start date
drew81
Well-Known Member
Seconded
Disneyson
Well-Known Member
Disney made a choice in it’s marketing department to cater towards a specific king of guest, once-in-a-lifetimers and the super-elite. Once-in-a-lifetime guests don’t know the difference between what was there and what was not. Those people are currently (mostly) unable to enter the country. Elites are mostly doing safer outdoor activities now, especially because most upcharge events, D23 experiences, etc. are unavailable. They have purposefully let the middle, presumably those who love the parks going once yearly or every other year, or those that have some sort of annual pass, those that return regardless of up-charge events and that first-timer magic, drop out.
This is a conscious decision that Disney made, in hopes that by reducing overall experience options for the “middle” and adding more and more upcharge events (see the multiple Club 33 buildings, the Festival model’s many upcharge experiences, the way that queues were artificially inflated with Fastpass in order to increase the value of EMH and hotel accommodations that don’t their price, etc.). Now the parks are relying on the middle. This is not Disney’s choice, but it is what happened.
Fox was an unnecessary purchase, IMHO, and was predicated on the fact that once-in-a-life timers and elites would be a steady flow of income for the company. The only steady flow that exists now seems to be Disney+, and it makes sense that they are investing completely in it. I fear that Disney will not make back their money spent on Fox unless they truly utilize their IP. I hope that I will begin to see tangible returns from this company as a Disney Fan, but as of now there seems to be no payoff. I see this as a decision Disney made to cornerthe market on entertainment, and definitely not a a reason to “forgive Disney” for it’s cuts.
Shanghai Disneyland is beautiful, but as their investments in China wobble in time with politics and COVID-19 fallout (see the closure of Disney English), it will becomes more and more tenuous to visit that park, which I think is truly great from experience. Disney made this decision to become more entrenched in the Chinese market and to value the brand of Disney, which is not to me, as a fan, to “deal with all of it”.
Items like Galaxy’s Edge are wonderful, especially the true improvement in guest experience that is Rise of the Resistance. However, the new lands felt less like treats and more like reparations for allowing Disney to charge a full ticket price for a park that had a distinctly fewer number of attractions than others, especially if we do take away all entertainment. It still does not feel like the cost of that park, to me, is justified. And much of the land is laden with those up-charge events that were discussed earlier, like Savi’s and the Droid experience, though that’s neither here nor there. Disneyland’s version does not seem to me like an extra expense, but a value that allowed the company to decrease costs of possible design changes in the future at a location where big Star Wars content would likely be demanded several years after GE Studios’ opening. Building the two at the same time seems like a smart business move to save money to me, and not a reason to “deal with all of it”.
I am personally unsure of the numbers on Onward and Mulan, but this is largely result of the pandemic closing movie theatres, and will be surprised if there is a “box office success” anytime soon from any movie studio. They made the decision to release these films on Disney+, and cannot understand how being put in the same position as other companies makes Disney more of a martyr-like figure. This is not a reason to “deal with all of it”.
All of these decisions read to me as things that Disney has done to make money for themselves over the long-term, focusing on tricky business dealings, synergistic opportunism, and creating more market share for themselves. More importantly, these are all cold, calculated risks that Disney has made - and as such, they have made the decision to not invest in other things. I do not understand why we should forgive them for betting too much money on the wrong games and playing their cards in the wrong order, instead of investing them into more traditional shows of goodwill to the “middle”.
It is easy to become outraged with entertainment, but it is also important to remember that the company has laid off countless other employees, including many other aspects of the parks that make just as much “magic” as entertainment. For this I am angry, as other theme park companies put out close to their full slate of entertainment daily.
I can respect the decisions they have made to cut but I will not pay for a ticket until the value of a ticket remotely matches it’s price. We would not have had so much “less” would the company have realized between 2006 - 2017 (and whatever lead time they had from before) they needed new attractions and substantial entertainment offerings. While it is nice to see new things now, I can’t help but remember the bare-bones New Fantasyland, the crop up in Josh D’Amaro inherited a Disney World full of possibility that was cut at the knees. I can imagine him feeling excited to be the “good guy”, being able to completely refresh Epcot, shepherd the theme parks through major milestone anniversaries, and christen new Disney ships. Instead, he has, due to the choices of those before him that valued shareholders instead of guests, a slew aborted projects and apologies to make. Because I feel bad does not mean I will “deal with all of it”. I will “deal with all of it” when I feel that there is value in my ticket, and when I, ultimately, feel like this company values me.
This is a conscious decision that Disney made, in hopes that by reducing overall experience options for the “middle” and adding more and more upcharge events (see the multiple Club 33 buildings, the Festival model’s many upcharge experiences, the way that queues were artificially inflated with Fastpass in order to increase the value of EMH and hotel accommodations that don’t their price, etc.). Now the parks are relying on the middle. This is not Disney’s choice, but it is what happened.
Fox was an unnecessary purchase, IMHO, and was predicated on the fact that once-in-a-life timers and elites would be a steady flow of income for the company. The only steady flow that exists now seems to be Disney+, and it makes sense that they are investing completely in it. I fear that Disney will not make back their money spent on Fox unless they truly utilize their IP. I hope that I will begin to see tangible returns from this company as a Disney Fan, but as of now there seems to be no payoff. I see this as a decision Disney made to cornerthe market on entertainment, and definitely not a a reason to “forgive Disney” for it’s cuts.
Shanghai Disneyland is beautiful, but as their investments in China wobble in time with politics and COVID-19 fallout (see the closure of Disney English), it will becomes more and more tenuous to visit that park, which I think is truly great from experience. Disney made this decision to become more entrenched in the Chinese market and to value the brand of Disney, which is not to me, as a fan, to “deal with all of it”.
Items like Galaxy’s Edge are wonderful, especially the true improvement in guest experience that is Rise of the Resistance. However, the new lands felt less like treats and more like reparations for allowing Disney to charge a full ticket price for a park that had a distinctly fewer number of attractions than others, especially if we do take away all entertainment. It still does not feel like the cost of that park, to me, is justified. And much of the land is laden with those up-charge events that were discussed earlier, like Savi’s and the Droid experience, though that’s neither here nor there. Disneyland’s version does not seem to me like an extra expense, but a value that allowed the company to decrease costs of possible design changes in the future at a location where big Star Wars content would likely be demanded several years after GE Studios’ opening. Building the two at the same time seems like a smart business move to save money to me, and not a reason to “deal with all of it”.
I am personally unsure of the numbers on Onward and Mulan, but this is largely result of the pandemic closing movie theatres, and will be surprised if there is a “box office success” anytime soon from any movie studio. They made the decision to release these films on Disney+, and cannot understand how being put in the same position as other companies makes Disney more of a martyr-like figure. This is not a reason to “deal with all of it”.
All of these decisions read to me as things that Disney has done to make money for themselves over the long-term, focusing on tricky business dealings, synergistic opportunism, and creating more market share for themselves. More importantly, these are all cold, calculated risks that Disney has made - and as such, they have made the decision to not invest in other things. I do not understand why we should forgive them for betting too much money on the wrong games and playing their cards in the wrong order, instead of investing them into more traditional shows of goodwill to the “middle”.
It is easy to become outraged with entertainment, but it is also important to remember that the company has laid off countless other employees, including many other aspects of the parks that make just as much “magic” as entertainment. For this I am angry, as other theme park companies put out close to their full slate of entertainment daily.
I can respect the decisions they have made to cut but I will not pay for a ticket until the value of a ticket remotely matches it’s price. We would not have had so much “less” would the company have realized between 2006 - 2017 (and whatever lead time they had from before) they needed new attractions and substantial entertainment offerings. While it is nice to see new things now, I can’t help but remember the bare-bones New Fantasyland, the crop up in Josh D’Amaro inherited a Disney World full of possibility that was cut at the knees. I can imagine him feeling excited to be the “good guy”, being able to completely refresh Epcot, shepherd the theme parks through major milestone anniversaries, and christen new Disney ships. Instead, he has, due to the choices of those before him that valued shareholders instead of guests, a slew aborted projects and apologies to make. Because I feel bad does not mean I will “deal with all of it”. I will “deal with all of it” when I feel that there is value in my ticket, and when I, ultimately, feel like this company values me.
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JIMINYCR
Well-Known Member
I completely understand the need for businesses to alter the way they do business, restructure their work force, and try to stay alive during this unplanned hit without knowing how the future will play out. Lay offs are just another cost cutting piece that isnt unique to Disney. All industries and businesses of all types are being affected. As a Disney goer I will continue to visit, wearing a mask if necessary and am willing to support them to a limit. When Disney changes to the point where I can no longer find enough entertainment or enjoyment, it no longer is worth the trip. Disney will have to offer some kind of discount or alter their price structure to make up for these things theyve taken away. As a business seeking my money, they have to compensate me with something of equal or more value. I still see enough value remaining at this time but it can reach a breaking point.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
just a quick question and this is for anyone/everyone. I hear this alot not just from you pete. Do people actually think that if the big ceo's didn't get their money and yes it's obscene that somehow the little people wouldn't get laid off??
anyhoo, on the off chance that the op posted this sincerely.
So I'm very very rarely ok with anyone losing their job. As a person who's been furloughed a few times during this godawful pandemic I can tell you it's sucks. it's stressful and painful. Now maybe because I have worked for mega corps all my life, most of the time ones that are in the top 100 of fortune 500, I've never had this illusion that some here have that these companies are in any way invested in their employees. My ceo said it bluntly and best "my job is to make sure this company is viable in 2021" not to make sure everyone is feeling warm and fuzzy. so no I am in no way surprised that Disney is laying off, I'd be shocked if they did.
now as far as supporting them. for me it's not about "support" its simply about consumerism. they offer a product, if I think that product is worth what they are asking for I will go. Of course this is an unprecedented time but my last trip was in 2018 and it was fabulous so I had a trip planned for this year. that of course got cancelled. I have a trip scheduled for late 2021, if we go and it's still fabulous we will be back after that. If is not then we'll not return and I'll consider selling my dvc membership.
of course folks are upset, I think most people are upset about this entire situation. It's horrible
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brb1006
Well-Known Member
If you need me, I'll me watching the first episode of Season 2 of The Mandalorian that dropped today alongside the latest episode of The Right Stuff on Disney+.
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ppete1975
Well-Known Member
I think bonus's should be paid to people who go above and beyond to make a company money. I think that when a company isnt making money there shouldnt be bonus's (key word bonus) to the upper 5 percent. I also think that some of them should lose part of their salary to help the company. It comes across as greedy when you announce you are cutting tons of jobs of people who cant feed their kids then a millionaire gets another bonus he doesnt need. The money that goes to those bonus's could go towards paying people instead of laying them off, or at least tell the employees that are still standing that they are valuable not just fodder for the next layoff and that the upper 5 percent are the only ones that are safe and valuable.
Its not just disney, JCPenney got bonus's this year, Sears did every year, and many companies that have went bankrupt the upper 5 got bonus's. In those instances, if your company is going bankrupt.. do you "deserve" a bonus.... nah you should prob be fired for the company going bankrupt.
Disney is diff because it wasnt their strategy that lead to the situation.. but they could have done things alot better, and still could be, and if you are going to punish employees, park goers and anyone associated due to the situation.. you should take your lumps as well.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
So we should support the layoffs but you won't go because you don't want to wear a mask. You realize that by not going, you're NOT bringing in additional revenue to WDW, right? Now, this is not to shame anyone else for not going for whatever their personal reasons might be. But we're talking about your own logic. And you wonder why performers were laid off. For me, I wanted to go because I hadn't been in more than a year. I had planned on March. We all know what happened after that. I finally ended up going last week and not for any altruistic reason either. I wanted to experience the magic even while wearing a mask. Regardless, my visit brought in additional revenue to WDW. And that's the bottom line isn't it? WDW can't get back to 100% without guests returning and bringing in revenue.
B#ll#cks....
Well, this should give you some perspective... if people had followed common sense and started wearing masks back in March (yes, back when the "experts" were saying you didn't need one) we might have passed through the worst of this pandemic by now, and WDW might have been fully open without ANY layoffs.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Disney isn't in a financial bind today.. nor were they at risk ahead of the pandemic.
The problem is they have the world's biggest entertainment engine - for a non-existant market. A market situation caused by the macro situation of COVID-19 and they don't know when it will start resuming normal operations.
The risk to Disney is how to adapt going forward and bring their operation inline with what the near-term and mid-term future holds.
You can't run 2019 Disney in 2020 and beyond. THAT's the bind they are in.
The problem is they have the world's biggest entertainment engine - for a non-existant market. A market situation caused by the macro situation of COVID-19 and they don't know when it will start resuming normal operations.
The risk to Disney is how to adapt going forward and bring their operation inline with what the near-term and mid-term future holds.
You can't run 2019 Disney in 2020 and beyond. THAT's the bind they are in.
KBLovedDisney
Well-Known Member
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
I mean, it's not long before they bring the entertainment back. Some "anonymous" source already dropped the concept art for the new "Hoop De 2" into my inbox. It looks awesome! I can't wait.
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Think Tink
Premium Member
- In the Parks
- No
There seems to be no logic in OPs post. You’d take a scaled down nothing version of Disney all while paying more, but won’t, because of a small piece of fabric that I forget I’m wearing half the time? Ummm, okay?!
"El Gran Magnifico"
Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Because they are upset.
Good Luck with that.
Good Luck with that, too.
Wait. You would pay $400 (for a family of four) to walk around a theme park where all you could do is shop and pay more money to eat?
KBLovedDisney
Well-Known Member
we....now have Six Flags with a mouse?
"El Gran Magnifico"
Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Which is still better than what the OP is lobbying for which (if I understand it correctly) is: "Two and 3 Quarter Flags - presented by Chuck E. Cheese"
