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Disney buys 1000 acres of land

Missing20K

Well-Known Member
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Disney doesn't spend any money if they don't have to. Regardless of the transaction value, it shows a clear motive and intent.
I never argued motive or intent. Only the relation of the transaction value to the greater value of the company and it's cash holdings.
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
Those are some bold IFs.

Isn't there land that isn't in conservation status already earmarked for a 5th gate if they wanted to do that?

But even if this is for hotels and infrastructure, why would they build more rooms and more infrastructure if they didn't also add another gate. And I realize that folks have a valid argument that the 4 gates already don't have enough to do. But @ParentsOf4 projected that a new gate would have to happen by the mid-20's to keep up with the current pace of DVC and Resort attendance growth.

While it seems improbable, we could actually be getting closer to another new park of some sort. Although I think their money would be better spent building another Disneyland somewhere in North America to take some pressure off of MK and DL.
What state would be best for another park? Texas?
 

JSchnitz

Active Member
I just wonder if building a fifth gate wouldn’t be the opportunity they would need to get tomorrow land right? An all new park with all new attractions would have to pull some of that attendance away from the Magic Kingdom wouldn’t it? Figure by then Tron and the Speedway would be finished and they could close off the other portion of Tomorrowland to finally refurb Space mountain , replace Stitch and/or possibly still add a Theater?
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
Instead of a 5th gate I would take:

1) A new land for AK
I know AK just got Pandora, but the 20 year old park needs more attractions.

2) Expansion of Adventureland/Frontierland @ MK
An Adventureland expansion would balance the addition of the new Tron E-ticket and add space to a land that has been cramped by the addition of the Aladdin spinner.
A Frontierland addition that removes the dead end @BTRR would help with traffic flow and add capacity.

3) Add new counties to the World Showcase in Epcot
It has been over 25 years since we received a new pavilion. Nuff said.

4) Develop an Indy mini-land at DHS.
SW:GE will be so popular, DHS will need more attraction to handle the crowds.

5) Replace the shows at DHS.
These show have worn out their welcome. New show = new interest and shows are people eaters.

This are my top 5. However, I would also like a retracking of Space Mtn., a redo of Imagination, expansion of Kali, Yeti fix, CoP new scene, MK Theater, redo Fantasyland facades, new Epcot entrance (remove tombstones), Fantasmic refurb or new show, and a SW expansion (I know it hasn’t opened yet, but it will need it).

All of these things should be done (and more) before a 5th park is even considered.
It's like you are in my head.......
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
The anti-5th-gate downer:

1. A 5th gate won't solve MK's overcrowding. The current 3 other gates aren't pulling the crowds from there, so, a new one won't either unless you build it with 30 rides, and that ain't ever gonna happen. A 5th gate will cannibalize the other 3 first.​
2. So, WDW has to first beef up the other three gates so that they're as popular as the MK. Which isn't going to be easy. MK has 27 rides. The other 3 have about 9 each. It'll take years for that to happen.​

This doesn't mean WDW can get the land ready. But, it makes no business sense to build a 5th gate before ramping up the other 3.
This^^^
 

Franklin47disneyguy

Active Member
Yes for us visitors and fans that makes more sense. For mba type suits a new ticketed gate makes more sense. Attendance is rising no matter what happens, they don't have to add rides to grow on attendance. Sure they can add rides to improve the product but if they want to expand on timeshares and hotel rooms. A new park makes for sense
 

wedenterprises

Well-Known Member
Yes for us visitors and fans that makes more sense. For mba type suits a new ticketed gate makes more sense. Attendance is rising no matter what happens, they don't have to add rides to grow on attendance. Sure they can add rides to improve the product but if they want to expand on timeshares and hotel rooms. A new park makes for sense
I'm curious as to what the pencil pushers thought of a Star Wars ticketed gate
 

Monorail_Red_77

Well-Known Member
This new land purchased is owned by a Disney Subsidiary.
215 Celebration Place, LLC

When you trace that name as a physical address you get a building in Celebration owned by:
215 Celebration Place, LLC c/o Walt Disney World Resort Legal Dept.

I would have thought the new property would have been owned by RCID since it is already touching RCID lands.

Kind of an interesting twist.....

This is the where the owner name ties back to. as well as the general address of 1375 Buena Vista Dr (TDO Bldg)

1547143653824.png

Here's a sample of one of the plots. Other plots still show as being owned by prior owner or in some cases both. This likely will clear up in the coming weeks due to slow process of deeds. (I know this from personal experience)

1547143743365.png
 

Monorail_Red_77

Well-Known Member
This new land purchased is owned by a Disney Subsidiary.
215 Celebration Place, LLC

When you trace that name as a physical address you get a building in Celebration owned by:
215 Celebration Place, LLC c/o Walt Disney World Resort Legal Dept.

I would have thought the new property would have been owned by RCID since it is already touching RCID lands.

Kind of an interesting twist.....

This is the where the owner name ties back to. as well as the general address of 1375 Buena Vista Dr (TDO Bldg)

View attachment 340010

Here's a sample of one of the plots. Other plots still show as being owned by prior owner or in some cases both. This likely will clear up in the coming weeks due to slow process of deeds. (I know this from personal experience)

View attachment 340011
By the way I have started work on my Osceola section of WDW Master Map. Once finished I'll post both Counties.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to what the pencil pushers thought of a Star Wars ticketed gate
I do not think Disney will build a 5th gate. It makes much more sense to expand the existing 4 gates. Build a transportation system over the road and have more attraction on the other side of world drive and expand Hollywood Studio. Build a new land in AK on the land on way to Rafiki Planet Watch. Build a major expansion of MK past Splash Mountain. If all these were done it would add more than a 5th gate. After that a 5th gate may be needed but it would possible but not for another 10 years.

An addition small piece of information is that the 3000 acres from a few years ago resulted in 575 aces of mitigation. If the same percentage was available for the new 2500 acres they could have another 500 acres available for expansion. This would lead to tons of possible additions. From new resorts and Disney parks to the possibility of 3rd party attractions. Think of the possibility of having 50,000 to 70,000 hotel/DVC rooms on property and all the possible parks and other attractions like those on International Drive that could all be on Disney Proprty with Disney transportation. Then add the possible exclusive transportation contracts that could be added to offsite resorts and timeshares.
 

FullSailDan

Well-Known Member
I just wonder if building a fifth gate wouldn’t be the opportunity they would need to get tomorrow land right? An all new park with all new attractions would have to pull some of that attendance away from the Magic Kingdom wouldn’t it? Figure by then Tron and the Speedway would be finished and they could close off the other portion of Tomorrowland to finally refurb Space mountain , replace Stitch and/or possibly still add a Theater?
While yes, Tomorrowland needs help and a desperate overhaul, a 5th gate at this juncture would do little to alleviate the crowding at Magic Kingdom. In fact, it may exacerbate the problem in the short term. Take for example the GE opening, we know it's going to draw a significant number of reservations and the parks are going to be slammed. But most likely, those guests weren't planning on just a day at DHS, but rather a few days in the parks and mostly MK. Dad wants to ride in the millennium falcon, but daddy's little princess wants to see Cindy and ride dumbo and mom isn't going to authorize a vacation to Orlando without making little Suzy happy.

In otherwords, MK has a double edged sword with growth at WDW. When something new opens, MK sees crowding, even when the new thing isn't located in MK. A fifth gate would probably do more to starve Epcot of guests than it would to draw people away from the castle park. MK pretty much just needs to constantly bite the bullet one way or another. Take attractions down for refurb or replacement, invest in expansion and not worry about costs, or do what they are currently doing - burying their head in the sand (and capitalizing on overcrowding by slicing up the park hours into special tickets. )
 

DoubleJ21

Well-Known Member
The anti-5th-gate downer:

1. A 5th gate won't solve MK's overcrowding. The current 3 other gates aren't pulling the crowds from there, so, a new one won't either unless you build it with 30 rides, and that ain't ever gonna happen. A 5th gate will cannibalize the other 3 first.​
2. So, WDW has to first beef up the other three gates so that they're as popular as the MK. Which isn't going to be easy. MK has 27 rides. The other 3 have about 9 each. It'll take years for that to happen.​

This doesn't mean WDW can't get the land ready. But, it makes no business sense to build a 5th gate before ramping up the other 3.
I'm on the fence myself as I think a lot needs to be done before a fifth gate begins construction. But, for the purpose of discussion I will offer a few points.

I don't think anything other than expanding MK's capacity will solve its problem. The MK is just a special park that everybody is going to go to no matter what. Further, I don't think Disney or the fans want to let MK be stagnant while the other parks get all the upgrades. I will say, MK feels less crowded than DL. Try maneuvering your way through Adventureland in DL and you'll know crowding.

I also don't think Disney necessarily thinks that all the parks must be fully intensified before the construction of a fifth gate. MK, Epcot, and DHS are much closer to complete intensification when one considers that these parks will need continual expansion for a very long time, and the relatively little expansion room they have left. (Not saying they don't have a quite a bit of room, just that long-term Disney needs to balance keeping as many open plots free as they can, while still maintaining required capacity.) DAK has more than enough room for expansion, and won't be running out anytime soon.

Therefore, I think a fifth gate makes more logical sense than a lot of people give it credit. Really, the rationalization for the construction of a fifth gate is no different than the construction of the third and fourth. Epcot was far from a fleshed out park when DHS was built, and DHS far from fleshed out when DAK was built.

Also, I highly recommend everybody read this post by PO4 for some economic context and reasoning behind a fifth gate:https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/why-walt-disney-world-needs-a-5th-theme-park-by-2025.893463/post-6437282
 

djlaosc

Well-Known Member
  • The Martian Tater Surprise Food Stand
I remember looking at the Fox films when the deal was originally announced, and thinking that The Martian would probably be one of the few Fox films that could fit into the parks quickly and cheaply - all it would take would be to change the logos in Mission: Space to Ares logos and update the pre show film.

Problem with it would be that Disney probably don't consider it a "franchise"...
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Also, I highly recommend everybody read this post by PO4 for some economic context and reasoning behind a fifth gate:https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...-a-5th-theme-park-by-2025.893463/post-6437282
And as I point out in that thread, his analysis doesn't take into account the numbers of each individual park. He divides attendance equally among all the parks for an average. That doesn't address the problem of MK having twice the guests it was made for and often being past its tipping point. A 5th gate doesn't solve that problem.
 

DoubleJ21

Well-Known Member
And as I point out in that thread, his analysis doesn't take into account the numbers of each individual park. He divide attendance equally among all the parks for an average. That doesn't address the problem of MK having twice the guests it was made for and often being past its tipping point. A 5th gate doesn't solve that problem.
Yes, but I think MK's problem can only be solved by MK. I don't think anybody wants this to happen but Disney could let MK rot and people would still file in by the droves. Therefore, the only way to solve MK's problem is to expand its capacity. And when they do that, they also need to balance keeping a number of plots free while keeping a satisfactory level of capacity.

All the parks will see cannibalization when a fifth park opens (expected and totally normal), but MK will be an outlier in the sense that it will be the least hit.
 
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