Disney announces a new Four Seasons Luxury Resort and Golf Community

[RiversideBunny]

A question I've been mulling over about the new Four Seasons hotel is 'What will be the interaction of the people who stay there with the WDW parks and existing restaurants?'
If only the very wealthy stay there, and they stay there due to wanting extra luxury, away from the crowds, then how much would they be in the parks and the WDW restuarants? What are the odds that you will see Bill Gates in the MK eating at the Crystal Palace for breakfast?

It seems they would have very little impact for the parks.
The Four Seasons will provide Disney with a prestige factor, a slice of the hotel room pie, and maybe a place to put up visiting VIP's, but not extra entertainment income.

 

[tomm4004]

Whats your defination of "caters"? They'll be allowed in.

Um, ads for their restaurants on Disney buses!

I'm really looking forward to the 'Bill Gates Windows on the World Restaurant'. And of course staying in the 'Frankie Valli Suite'!

 

[Raidermatt]

Sadly, I suspect there is a "Jethro Factor" in play.

That's very possible, which ties into other comments about things that may have hurt the GF, like being themed, accessable, etc.

If that's the case, then the question of course becomes does the Four Seasons development solve that problem?

I'm not sure that it can. I just can't see people paying for the priviledge of staying in a Four Seasons in WDW unless they are "park people", at least to a certain extent. And you would think that the Jethro Factor wouldn't be that strong in that group. If people are put off by themeing, monorails, and other parts of the typical Disney experience, why on earth will they want to go to WDW at all? A Four Seaons maybe more their type of place, but there are Four Seasons elsewhere that don't have all that nasty Disney stuff going on, like in Las Vegas and Hawaii.

The upshot of all that is it's possible that the Four Seasons crowd and WDW just aren't that compatible. Much like how the family market and Vegas didn't work out well. Honestly, I'm not sure, but I do have my doubts about this being a good idea for that very reason (among others).

Now, if the problem with the GF was more Disney's execution, then that's a different matter. The Four Seasons most definitely knows how to treat that market, but at the same time, if WDW's slice of that market wants both Disney immersion AND Four Seasons level service, this project could still have a tough time.

Some things to look for imho will be how things like transportation, dining, etc. will be handled. Will the Four Seasons have any special privileges that the Disney Deluxes don't have? Will they be part of the same bus system that the "Jethros" are on?

And as others have said, how accessable will the amenities of the Four Seasons be to the "Jethros"?

As for dress codes and such at Four Seasons in other warm weather locations, I looked up the Las Vegas and Maui locations. There's nothing on their websites about attire in the common areas of the resorts, however, they do have dress codes for their restaurants posted.

The Las Vegas location has one restaurant listed as casual, and one as business casual. Of course, what exactly business casual means I'm not sure... Disney and Shula's use that term to mean dress shorts.

The Maui location has three restaurants. One is listed as casual, the other two allow swimsuits with cover-ups for breakfast/lunch, and resort attire for Dinner, which I'm sure means shorts are ok.

Now, Hawaii is about as casual as things go. You can probably count on one hand the number of restaurants in the whole state that don't allow shorts. But still, I can't see a WDW Four Seasons being able to limit visitation through a dress code anymore strict than what there is at other WDW signature dining places. Maybe at one restaurant like V&A's but that's probably it, and that wasn't enough for the GF.

 

[Raidermatt]

If only the very wealthy stay there, and they stay there due to wanting extra luxury, away from the crowds, then how much would they be in the parks and the WDW restuarants? What are the odds that you will see Bill Gates in the MK eating at the Crystal Palace for breakfast?

It seems they would have very little impact for the parks.
The Four Seasons will provide Disney with a prestige factor, a slice of the hotel room pie, and maybe a place to put up visiting VIP's, but not extra entertainment income.

Ah, but if they aren't going to visit the WDW parks and restaurants, why would they go to WDW and not some other Four Seasons that is in a place they DO want to experience?

 

[tomm4004]

Dad will be on the golf course. Mom at the spa. And the kids in the MK with the nanny. Okay, I'm kidding - maybe.

I can't speak as to the typical Four Seasons guest, but I would suspect that Disney get some of "these types" of people already. (How's the occupancy rate at Disney suites? I hear that the Walt and Roy suites on the boats sell out fast). And I suspect that Four Seasons also have an idea of what their guests want. They've probably done surveys: Would you like to stay at one of our hotels and ride Splash Mountain and Tower of Terror?

Rich snobs have kids too!

 

[netenyahoo]

This quote bothers me - "These projects are first-of-a-kind for Walt Disney World Resort and we are thrilled to be able to bring Four Seasons to our resort," said Meg Crofton, president of Walt Disney World Resort. "Families around the globe know they can trust Disney to deliver magical experiences and Four Seasons to offer exceptional service and amenities. Combined, this is a huge win for devotees of both brands and for Central Florida," said Crofton.

Disney already offers exceptional service and amenities. It seems Disney is being cheap and letting Four Seasons build on its property, so it doesn't have to pay to build up its own hotels. They seem to be saying that the deluxe hotels are not good enough to compete with Four Seasons.

It is the 3rd party value hotels that bother me even more. Disney is hurting itself with allowing this. Their own hotels have a hard time filling up and Pop Century isn't finished. If one of these hotels offers rooms at $75/night versus say $100/night for one of the value resorts then why stay at the value resorts? Both are close and will have transportation to the parks. People looking to save money will try to save more at the cheaper hotel. It doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Disney is in the business to make money, so they must know what they are doing. Other issues like outsourcing first line jobs bothers me more than these issues.

 

[slappy magoo]

I'm not sure that it can. I just can't see people paying for the priviledge of staying in a Four Seasons in WDW unless they are "park people", at least to a certain extent. And you would think that the Jethro Factor wouldn't be that strong in that group. If people are put off by themeing, monorails, and other parts of the typical Disney experience, why on earth will they want to go to WDW at all? A Four Seaons maybe more their type of place, but there are Four Seasons elsewhere that don't have all that nasty Disney stuff going on, like in Las Vegas and Hawaii.

The upshot of all that is it's possible that the Four Seasons crowd and WDW just aren't that compatible. Much like how the family market and Vegas didn't work out well. Honestly, I'm not sure, but I do have my doubts about this being a good idea for that very reason (among others).

Quite a few people have brought up that same point-why is Disney trying to attract a customer base that wants nothing to do with Disney?

I suspect the answer is pretty much: Kids.

There are people for whome the "Disney magic" means nothing, but they've got kids who want to be there. If they can arrange a holiday where they can hit the links pretty much every day, but also give the kids a Disney vacation at the same time, and they'll just meet up for meals and bedtime, well, for people with that mindset, it's the best of both worlds. It's why I brought up the Vegas analogy before. Some people made Vegas a "family vacation" in as much as the high rollers might bring the family to Vegas, but whether they spend any time together doing the same thing is debatable.

What is also debatable is how successful this would be at WDW, but I suspect that is the goal. Give the dads their golfing holiday, give mom a 5-star spa, give the kids and "the help" directions to the bus stop or other access to the Magic Kingdom, keep in touch, don't talk to strangers, be back and washed up and ready for bed by 11.

 

[nibblesandbits]

It is the 3rd party value hotels that bother me even more. Disney is hurting itself with allowing this. Their own hotels have a hard time filling up and Pop Century isn't finished. If one of these hotels offers rooms at $75/night versus say $100/night for one of the value resorts then why stay at the value resorts? Both are close and will have transportation to the parks. People looking to save money will try to save more at the cheaper hotel. It doesn't seem to make sense to me.

What would make the most sense to me is if Disney is going to be offering these new 3rd party hotels Disney perks...they should only be offered a few perks...but not all. Will have busses to cart them back and forth but can't use DDP or don't get EMH.

That way they get some of the Disney perks...but you still have to stay on site to get some of the other, more valuable ones.

 

[tomm4004]

...this is a huge win for devotees of both brands and for Central Florida," said Crofton.

I guess their research has shown that there are devotees to both brands.

And I agree that it seems that Disney is conceding that they can't offer that level of service. I'm trying to think of a parallel. Well, they do have lots of third-party restaurants on the premises. Is that a parallel? The top places though are still Disney - V&A, C Grill.

 

[TravisMT81]

Dad will be on the golf course. Mom at the spa. And the kids in the MK with the nanny. Okay, I'm kidding - maybe.

I can't speak as to the typical Four Seasons guest, but I would suspect that Disney get some of "these types" of people already. (

Rich snobs have kids too!

more common then you think, I think it is sad!

 

[majortom1981]

Wait

A lot of you forgot what Disneys original vision was.

Remember EPCOT was supposed to be a futuristic CITY. Dont start this it doesnt fit stuff. Epcot was going to be a city. This actually does fit with the plan.

Also My GdF's p[arents are Kinda Rich and would love to stay at something like this when They go to Disney World. Especially if it centers around golf

 

[Hakunamatata]

Also My GdF's p[arents are Kinda Rich and would love to stay at something like this when They go to Disney World. Especially if it centers around golf

I know a family of Rich's. Where are the Kinda Rich's from?

 

[tomm4004]

There's a Ritz-Carlton resort not far from Disney, with golf. So that clientele is already in the Orlando area.

 

[Raidermatt]

What is also debatable is how successful this would be at WDW, but I suspect that is the goal.

I agree. I guess we have no choice but to wait and see how it plays out.

 

[tomm4004]

I agree. I guess we have no choice but to wait and see how it plays out.

I suspect it will work out well for Disney and Four Seasons and that the typical guest will not know that it's there. But the real question, which has been alluded to in posts throughout this thread, is one of philosophy. Is this a change or simply a tweak in philosophy for Disney? And if it's a change in philosophy, or even a shift, will this change negatively effect the overall experience by watering it down, making it less Disney and more generic?

 

[valorus]

A question I've been mulling over about the new Four Seasons hotel is 'What will be the interaction of the people who stay there with the WDW parks and existing restaurants?'
If only the very wealthy stay there, and they stay there due to wanting extra luxury, away from the crowds, then how much would they be in the parks and the WDW restuarants? What are the odds that you will see Bill Gates in the MK eating at the Crystal Palace for breakfast?

It seems they would have very little impact for the parks.
The Four Seasons will provide Disney with a prestige factor, a slice of the hotel room pie, and maybe a place to put up visiting VIP's, but not extra entertainment income.

I am not Bill Gates, nor is my wife, but we are part of the target clientele for the Four Season. Though we enjoy the Grand Floridian, we are very much looking forward the coming of the Four Seasons. It seems to me that there has been allot of a stereotyping going on. Just because the Four Seasons is more our cup of tea, does not mean we don't enjoy the parks and everything else Disney has to offer.

 

[Raidermatt]

But the real question, which has been alluded to in posts throughout this thread, is one of philosophy. Is this a change or simply a tweak in philosophy for Disney? And if it's a change in philosophy, or even a shift, will this change negatively effect the overall experience by watering it down, making it less Disney and more generic?

I'm not sure it's really a change. I think they've been willing to sell/lease assets that would have been untouchable in the past for quite some time. It's primarily a question of price. What we also maybe seeing the impact of is a CEO who is better able to work with others and maintain relationships, which is only a good thing if the ideas are sound to begin with.

 

[Jose Eber]

I personally think Four Seasons is a fair product, its just odd Disney can't bust its own to create their own high level product. Laziness?

Grand Floridian is great (why is someone always talking about it being a disappointment -- facts and figures please).

But an ultra high quality resort would have been nice -- maybe even on the Epcot line that had convention space. Maybe by Lake Bambi? Maybe Gaylord took the wind out of Disney's sails...who knows.

 

[Lane]

May be a good thing.

In the long run, THis may be a good thing. I like the fact that the four Seasons is moving in. Maybe they will help pressure Disney into better coustomer service at thier High end properties. It sure has slipped in the past few years. I have been staying at the polynesian for 20 yrs. and man, Has coustomer service went south there! I still love it, but it's such a pain dealing with them now. I recently booked my stay for this fall. 10 nights concierge level. When I tried to contact the Polynesian concierge office to get started with my dinning plans they were impossiable to contact and when i finally got someone to return my call they acted as if they really didn't want to be bothered with me. At rates higher than the Ritz Carlton you'd think they would try a little harder.

 

[jholiiday]

I think this is nothing but a positive. There's nothing quite like staying at a truly luxurious hotel, to make a vacation superb, and while I think Disney is certainly capable of providing such a place, the service a Four Seasons is going to provide will be an absolutely wonderful way to end a long day at a park, plain and simple. Especially if, as I imagine, that time spent at the park is after 8 or 9 hours in a long conference room. There's a reason Finance, Tech, Biotech, and Pharmaceutical companies have meetings at Fairmonts, Ritz-Carltons, and Four Seasons - people who work hard, in large corporate settings like to be pampered (who doesn't, of course) - and can afford it. These are also people who work 70 hour weeks, and feel guilty about never seeing their children, they'll bring them on trips like this.