Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[DisneyHead123]

The Barbie movie's tropes and plot points were very established, vanilla territory with its messaging.

If anything, it had to pretend the last 40 years of progress hadn't happened and that big, corporate boards like Mattel were all still run entirely by men. It seemed to think it was still the circa 1980 world of "9 to 5", which was a fabulous movie and a personal favorite but even in 1980 it was a bit unbelievable and hokey for those of us actually working 9 to 5 as President Carter left office.

But, in fact, Mattel was co-founded by a woman (Ruth Handler), currently 4 of Mattel's 11 executive directors are women, the producer of the movie about Barbie was a woman (Greta Gerwig), the movie was produced by a woman (Margot Robbie), starred mostly women (Margot Robbie and others), and was given a production and marketing budget that could put a dent in some nation's entire GDP. Because, women.

But sure, blame "patriarchy" and pretend it's still 1964 for some reason, if it can get a few jokes. Which made the dour and humorless teenage Sasha character railing about patriarchy at the Cool Girls Table in her Jr. High cafeteria even funnier in Act 2, until Sasha finally realized the truth and lightened up in Act 3.

My take is that if the redeemable "villains" were almost caricature-esque in nature, it goes back to the old movie style of making the "bad guy" so far removed from the average viewer that said viewer can pat themselves on the back for being solidly in "good guy" territory. If Barbie were a statement about how much plastic from toys and toy boxes ends up in the ocean, we might all have to leave feeling a little guilty. Not treating women like a circa 1950s chauvinist pig? Hopefully the vast majority of the viewership manages that.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The YouTube screeds are growing exponentially regarding Barbie's supposed wokeness.

Tho, I'm sure they're delighted that Barbie won't be financially successful, because, you know, it will 'go broke.'

 

[Jedijax719]

Spoiler ahead if you care:

One of my favorite unintended (or perhaps very much intended) messages of the movie is when angry, self-righteous Sasha magically transforms into a much happier version of herself and smiles, sings, bonds with her mother, and has a proactive view on life - once she puts on make-up, a cute dress, and does her hair.

Take note women of the world! Life is better when you wear makeup and a snappy little dress!

#barbielifelessons

So in other words, the movie calls for female independence but then says women are better off when they conform to the standards set by men?

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think we’re seeing another reason that Barbie initially escaped much of the culture war assault: messages about women’s place in society, about the often hidden workings of patriarchy - even when delivered in speeches to the camera, are more complex and easier to misinterpret, either willfully or through ignorance. An image of a same-sex couple kissing or a mermaid of the “wrong” race are much more easily understood and those who object feel them on a much more immediate and visceral level.

 

[Ghost93]

And the complaints being minimal more has to do with the "messaging" being relatively hidden ahead of time then anything, and is different compared to Disney promoting representation within their films months ahead of time.

I think a problem with Disney's representation, even if well done in the context of the movie itself, is that they often brag about it way in advance in the media. This makes everyone view the diversity through a cynical lens of Disney trying to use diversity as a marketing tactic.

It's most egregious when it comes to Disney's LGBT representation. The VERY brief lesbian moments in Rise of Skywalker, Onward and Lightyear are almost blink and you miss, yet they got tons of press coverage in advance and were used as a selling point for the movie. It's insulting to LGBT fans, and it gives a false impression among homophobic people that the lesbian moments are much more prominent and progressive than they actually are.

Let's take the new Snow White movie as an example. We could have discovered for ourselves, in the theater, that Zegler's Snow White would be more focused on being a strong leader than finding a prince. Instead, they are bragging about how progressive the film is and criticizing the animated classic months in advance, leading people to already form strong opinions on the remake before it's even come out.

I think it helped that most people got to discover Barbie in the theaters for themselves before reactiona

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I think Barbie's massive success is also simply because people wanted something different than what usually gets released to theaters these days (action/superhero movies and R-rated horror films).

It wasn't a "kids movie", it wasn't Oscar-bait, it wasn't an indie ego project, this was a movie geared towards a female audience that had true, multi-generational appeal. How often does that get made? Or with this kind of budget, cast and marketing hype?

Barbie made more money in its opening day weekend than The Flash, Mission Impossible, Transformers, Creed 3 and Elemental have made in their domestic runs to date and not much less than Indiana Jones or John Wick: Chapter 4 have either (the latter of which was considered a "hit" relative to its budget, but still made less than $190 million domestically). It made more than Ant-Man 3 in less than a week.

The movie has surpassed expectations because Hollywood created a self-fulfilling prophecy where only certain kinds of movies were hits because only certain kinds of movies were being made. Not surprisingly, people want to see other stuff than "Untitled Franchise Sequel 5".

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think a problem with Disney's representation, even if well done in the context of the movie itself, is that they often brag about it way in advance in the media. This makes everyone view the diversity through a cynical lens of Disney trying to use diversity as a marketing tactic.

It's most egregious when it comes to Disney's LGBT representation. The VERY brief lesbian moments in Rise of Skywalker, Onward and Lightyear are almost blink and you miss, yet they got tons of press coverage in advance and were used as a selling point for the movie. It's insulting to LGBT fans, and it gives a false impression among homophobic people that the lesbian moments are much more prominent and progressive than they actually are.

Let's take the new Snow White movie as an example. We could have discovered for ourselves, in the theater, that Zegler's Snow White would be more focused on being a strong leader than finding a prince. Instead, they are bragging about how progressive the film is and criticizing the animated classic months in advance, leading people to already form strong opinions on the remake before it's even come out.

I think it helped that most people got to discover Barbie in the theaters for themselves before reactiona

Was the same-sex couple in Lightyear promoted by the studio?

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think Barbie's massive success is also simply because people wanted something different than what usually gets released to theaters these days (action/superhero movies and R-rated horror films).

It wasn't a "kids movie", it wasn't Oscar-bait, it wasn't an indie ego project, this was a movie geared towards a female audience that had true, multi-generational appeal. How often does that get made? Or with this kind of budget, cast and marketing hype?

Barbie made more money in its opening day weekend than The Flash, Mission Impossible, Transformers, Creed 3 and Elemental have made in their domestic runs to date and not much less than Indiana Jones or John Wick: Chapter 4 have either (the latter of which was considered a "hit" relative to its budget, but still made less than $190 million domestically). It made more than Ant-Man 3 in less than a week.

The movie has surpassed expectations because Hollywood created a self-fulfilling prophecy where only certain kinds of movies were hits because only certain kinds of movies were being made. Not surprisingly, people want to see other stuff than "Untitled Franchise Sequel 5".

Possibly, but this Summer has seen D&D, No Hard Feelings, Cocaine Bear, Joy Ride, and The Blackening, all relatively well reviewed, underperform. Original animated films Elemental and Gillman have also struggled.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Possibly, but this Summer has seen D&D, No Hard Feelings, Cocaine Bear, Joy Ride, and The Blackening, all relatively well reviewed, underperform. Original animated films Elemental and Gillman have also struggled.

R-rated comedies have done terribly since COVID, across the board. It's not unique to this summer.

D&D was well reviewed, but might have been seen as another nerd/male oriented film like so many others.

 

[Ghost93]

Possibly, but this Summer has seen D&D, No Hard Feelings, Cocaine Bear, Joy Ride, and The Blackening, all relatively well reviewed, underperform. Original animated films Elemental and Gillman have also struggled.

I saw D&D, No Hard Feelings, Cocaine Bear, Joy Ride and the Blackening at the cinema. I'm doing my part to support original filmmaking!!

But as good as those movies all were, however, I think they lacked a "fear of missing out" element that Barbie — and to a lesser extent, Oppenheimer, have.

I think a lot of people are seeing Barbie just to take part of the conversation, and because they want to join their friends in taking selfies at the theater dressed in pink.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I saw D&D, No Hard Feelings, Cocaine Bear, Joy Ride and the Blackening at the cinema. I'm doing my part to support original filmmaking!!

But as good as those movies all were, however, I think they lacked a "fear of missing out" element that Barbie — and to a lesser extent, Oppenheimer, have.

I think a lot of people are seeing Barbie just to take part of the conversation, and because they want to join their friends in taking selfies at the theater dressed in pink.

As Ani points out, R-rated comedies have done terribly since even before covid, but that’s a bit difficult to square with the idea that all audiences wanted was something new (but familiar).

I don’t know what reproducible lessons we can learn from Mario and Barbie. Both were incredibly popular IPs that had yet to be exploited in film, and there aren’t a lot of those lying around. Variety is probably right to call Barbie a “pink unicorn.” Studios’ attempts to recapture the meme magic will be unbearable.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

As Ani points out, R-rated comedies have done terribly since even before covid, but that’s a bit difficult to square with the idea that all audiences wanted was something new (but familiar).

I don’t know what reproducible lessons we can learn from Mario and Barbie. Both were incredibly popular IPs that had yet to be exploited in film, and there aren’t a lot of those lying around. Variety is probably right to call Barbie a “pink unicorn.” Studios’ attempts to recapture the meme magic will be unbearable.

There's no replicating what happened with Barbie, but I would prefer Hollywood try to copy it with more glam and camp, instead of more toy movies.

I feel like today even a movie along the lines of Legally Blonde would never get made, or it would go straight to streaming. Barbie is kind of a throwback to that in a way.

 

[LittleBuford]

Let's take the new Snow White movie as an example. We could have discovered for ourselves, in the theater, that Zegler's Snow White would be more focused on being a strong leader than finding a prince. Instead, they are bragging about how progressive the film is and criticizing the animated classic months in advance, leading people to already form strong opinions on the remake before it's even come out.

Disney itself has said very little in the regard; it’s Zegler herself who’s revealed these details.

 

[Casper Gutman]

There's no replicating what happened with Barbie, but I would prefer Hollywood try to copy it with more glam and camp, instead of more toy movies.

I feel like today even a movie along the lines of Legally Blonde would never get made, or it would go straight to streaming. Barbie is kind of a throwback to that in a way.

Barbie’s also a throwback to the winking, self-aware IP comedies of the mid-90s through the mid-2000s, films like Brady Bunch, Bewitched, Flintstones, Avengers, Scooby-Doo, and so on. There were some fun outliers, but on the whole it’s not a genre I think many were sad to see go. You’ll likely get Legally Blonde 3 out of Barbie (it’s been in development for a while) but I’m HIGHLY skeptical that in the present environment you’re going to see a marked turn towards camp.

 

[Jedijax719]

There's no replicating what happened with Barbie, but I would prefer Hollywood try to copy it with more glam and camp, instead of more toy movies.

I feel like today even a movie along the lines of Legally Blonde would never get made, or it would go straight to streaming. Barbie is kind of a throwback to that in a way.

If this strike thing ever gets resolved, studios are going to look at Top Gun Maverick, Mario Brothers, and Barbie and scratch their heads about how to replicate their successes. Nostalgia is the only thing that will seem to tie them together. TGM brought in the right, Barbie the left, and Mario the kiddos. So there's little pattern with message. Unlike with pre-pandemic when it was all about the franchises, especially SW and MCU, there's not much to go with for these except Mario to create a true franchise. MI7 is doing well but not THAT well so Tom Cruise/massive action isn't it. Toys? Not so sure about that. It's nice that there is a variety of which movies do well. But damned if the studios are going to survive the strike and come out knowing which way is up and try to follow the needle of the compass which is going all sorts of cockamamy.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The writers and actors strike could possibly be the best thing that could happen to Disney.

For every new movie they don’t make, that’s 100 million for each they won’t lose

 

[TalkingHead]

I think Barbie's massive success is also simply because people wanted something different than what usually gets released to theaters these days (action/superhero movies and R-rated horror films).

It wasn't a "kids movie", it wasn't Oscar-bait, it wasn't an indie ego project, this was a movie geared towards a female audience that had true, multi-generational appeal. How often does that get made? Or with this kind of budget, cast and marketing hype?

Barbie made more money in its opening day weekend than The Flash, Mission Impossible, Transformers, Creed 3 and Elemental have made in their domestic runs to date and not much less than Indiana Jones or John Wick: Chapter 4 have either (the latter of which was considered a "hit" relative to its budget, but still made less than $190 million domestically). It made more than Ant-Man 3 in less than a week.

The movie has surpassed expectations because Hollywood created a self-fulfilling prophecy where only certain kinds of movies were hits because only certain kinds of movies were being made. Not surprisingly, people want to see other stuff than "Untitled Franchise Sequel 5".

Hollywood depended on variety for a hundred years. New properties also appeal to general audiences who don’t want to do the homework to catch up with the series.

 

[TalkingHead]

The Barbie comp from the 1990s is Clueless more than The Brady Bunch Movie, especially when audience is factored in.

 

[BrianLo]

I absolutely loved Barbie for the record as well. Hollywood will learn about zero valuable lessons from this. Especially Warner, which has proven to have zero perceptive ability to what actually went right here - a writer/director whom was supported with their vision. A team dedicated to that vision. A film actually made for its audience. Maybe the best corollaries being Avatar and Top Gun.

The real shame of the summer is Elemental, I feel it's critically important that film continue to ground swell into some posthumous success or popularity.

 

[LittleBuford]

Who here said Barbie isn’t really any good?

No-one as far as I can tell. I think all of us who’ve watched it have said we enjoyed it. Perhaps he has some of us on ignore and is just (incorrectly) inferring things from others’ responses?