Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Disney Irish]

Fully understood, but to trumpet NWH as a Disney theatrical success is incorrect as the film is produced, marketed, and distributed by SPE.

It might have been distributed by Sony Pictures, but it was co-produced by Columbia (Sony) and Marvel Studios. This is the only reason why Dr Strange was in the movie, if it was only produced by Columbia/Sony they would have no access to Strange.

 

[TP2000]

Actually, Spider-Man:NWH was a huge Sony movie, not a Disney success.

Always important to note that film grossed nearly $2 Billion ($1.912M) in December 2021 just three weeks after Encanto bombed with only $256M globally because of (Pick one of the following): Covid, families scared to go to theaters, streaming, dog ate my homework.

Oh, thank you for the clarification. The Spiderman Belongs To Sony thing is still confusing, especially for those who have been to Avenger's Campus at DCA and are familiar with the Spiderman ride there.

And yikes, that box office difference between Encanto and Spiderman is quite telling. I can only imagine the excuses that some folks used to blame Covid! for Encanto's tepid box office response. At least for three weeks until Spiderman came out.

Encanto: $150 Production, $75 Marketing, USA B.O. Take $58, Foreign B.O. Take $54 = $113 Million Loss
Spiderman: $200 Production, $100 Marketing, USA B.O. Take $488, Foreign B.O. Take $438 = $626 Million Profit

 

[doctornick]

Fully understood, but to trumpet NWH as a Disney theatrical success is incorrect as the film is produced, marketed, and distributed by SPE.

It's actually produced by Marvel Studios (Disney). Columbia Pictures has nominal final creative control, but essentially defers to Marvel Studios. Sony provides (most of the) financing and marketing and handles distribution. Disney provides 25% of financing and has full merchandising rights.

Sony certainly benefited the most financially from NWH, but if we are discussing it as a creative success, that would be due to Feige and Marvel Studios.

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh, thank you for the clarification. The Spiderman Belongs To Sony thing is still confusing, especially for those who have been to Avenger's Campus at DCA and are familiar with the Spiderman ride there.

And yikes, that box office difference between Encanto and Spiderman is quite telling. I can only imagine the excuses that some folks used to blame Covid! for Encanto's tepid box office response. At least for three weeks until Spiderman came out.

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Encanto: $150 Production, $75 Marketing, USA B.O. Take $58, Foreign B.O. Take $54 = $113 Million Loss
Spiderman: $200 Production, $100 Marketing, USA B.O. Take $488, Foreign B.O. Take $438 = $626 Million Profit

All you have to know is that any Spider-Man movie starring Tom Holland is co-financed and co-produced by Marvel Studios and Sony Pictures. This allows the Tom Holland version of Spider-Man to be in Avengers Campus.

Beyond that any Spider-Man related movie not using Tom Holland is solely financed and produced by Sony Pictures with only minor involvement from Marvel Entertainment (parent Marvel division at Disney) just to ensure that Sony is using the characters properly. These characters will not be in Avengers Campus.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's actually produced by Marvel Studios (Disney). Columbia Pictures has nominal final creative control, but essentially defers to Marvel Studios. Sony provides (most of the) financing and marketing and handles distribution. Disney provides 25% of financing and has full merchandising rights.

Sony certainly benefited the most financially from NWH, but if we are discussing it as a creative success, that would be due to Feige and Marvel Studios.

Yep, Disney ponies up 25% financing and gets 25% of the box office and 100% merch. All for the ability of Sony getting access to Feige and Marvel Studios for creative "help" (read almost entire creative control) and access to the MCU for those films.

Spider-Man Back In Action As Sony Agrees To Disney Co-Fi For New Movie, Return To MCU: How Spidey’s Web Got Untangled

UPDATED with more details: Sony has agreed to the terms that Disney originally proposed for its participation in a third Spider-Man movie, whereby Disney/Marvel would co-finance 25% of a third Homecoming movie for a 25% equity stake. The deal also calls for Spider-Man appearing in one more...

deadline.com

 

[Tony the Tigger]

FYI (related and unrelated to box office, but I dunno).

They seem to be talking only about DVDs, not CDs or vinyl. It would be a blow to universal if Disney pulled their vinyl and CD business, which is currently run through Universal.

 

[Tha Realest]

Disney absolutely already has some level of firm commitment from Downey and Evans to return for the next two Avengers films.

I believe Downey has also said in the past he didn’t have any desire to return to the Oscar thing he did when he was younger. Downey is a very skilled and entertaining speaker, but he can be glib.

Does this sound like there‘s a commitment in place?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Does this sound like there‘s a commitment in place?

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It sounds like a joke.

I find it hard to believe Downey Jr. willingly played Iron Man across nine movies while being consciously aware he was "losing credibility".

 

[Casper Gutman]

Does this sound like there‘s a commitment in place?

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Yes? It sounds like the constantly self-deprecating and sarcastic RDJ. A few years ago he said he was tired of the Oscarbait he did as a young man and was happy in blockbusters. He says stuff. He’s also fully aware the MCU single-handedly took him from being an uninsurable has-been to one of the five or so biggest stars in the world.

 

[TP2000]

But, as always, success has many fathers and failure is an orphan….

You are being polite. I always liked Lee Iacocca's rather profane version he used when talking about how many fathers inside the Ford Motor Company that the Mustang had after it became a smash hit.

Here's the box office results for Disney's movies on Presidents Day. Those stats weren't included in the weekend data, even though it was a federal holiday. Turning Red is at #15 and still is in 1,560 mostly empty theaters nationwide. Bizarre.

Down at #23 is where Wish is, as it just hit its 90th day in theaters. All Of Us Strangers is conveniently #24, in 50 theaters.

The Numbers - Daily Box Office Chart for Monday February 19, 2024

Daily Domestic Box Office Chart for Monday February 19, 2024

www.the-numbers.com

 

[erasure fan1]

A few years ago he said he was tired of the Oscarbait he did as a young man and was happy in blockbusters. He says stuff.

While I haven't heard of a solid, Evans and Downey would be coming back. I also wouldn't expect we'd ever know until the movie releases. It will be the worst kept secret in Hollywood, like Toby and Andrew in no way home. You are correct, actors say stuff. Evans had an interview a few years back where he said he was done with captain America. He then said, but if the world needs cap, how could I say no, it's captain America! The ONLY deciding factor to them coming back, is the size of the dump truck of money the deliver to them.

 

[Disney Irish]

Does this sound like there‘s a commitment in place?

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And Toby and Andrew both denied being in NWH until it was released, even though they were committed and scenes already filmed. So not sure your point. Actors deny and say contradictory stuff all the time until they are allowed to by the studios.

I'm not saying 100% that RDJ will be back. But I wouldn't put any stock in his jokey self deprecating speech as some confirmation that he isn't.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Just a reminder to those who have not seen it, All of Us Strangers is now streaming on Hulu.

'All of Us Strangers' Is Now Streaming on Hulu

The film stars Andrew Scott and Paul Mescal.

collider.com

 

[BuddyThomas]

Emma Stone and Yorgos Lanthimos on ‘Poor Things,’ Crazy Rehearsals and Never Making a Taylor Swift Joke Again

Emma Stone and Yorgos Lanthimos discuss reuniting for "Poor Things," working on the film's feminist edge and heading back to the Oscars together.

variety.com

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

"The star, who plays the title character in new superhero flick “Madame Web,” told MagicFM earlier this week that she doesn’t know when she’ll see the movie, vacillating between saying that she “probably won’t see it” to vaguely stating that she will “someday.”"

You're not alone Dakota...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/17/entertainment/madame-web-dakota-johnson/index.html

 

[Disney Irish]

"The star, who plays the title character in new superhero flick “Madame Web,” told MagicFM earlier this week that she doesn’t know when she’ll see the movie, vacillating between saying that she “probably won’t see it” to vaguely stating that she will “someday.”"

You're not alone Dakota...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/17/entertainment/madame-web-dakota-johnson/index.html

Just to defend her a little bit, but she doesn't see any of her own movies commonly. But I can see why she wouldn't want to see this one.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The budget for Joker 2 has ballooned to over $200 million and Gladiator 2 is over $310 million.

In case we’re still pretending grossly inflated budgets are a uniquely Disney problem.

 

[BrianLo]

Honestly, Madame Web doing this poorly can't be spun as a good thing for Disney's investment in Marvel, can it?

I do think there is a conversation to be had about how the failed Sony Marvel movies might have an unintended negative impact on the Disney Marvel movies if there are many consumers who can't tell the difference.

I somewhat missed this conversation, but wanted to chime in, because TP legitimately wouldn't know and that is not meant to be a criticism of him.

This is not a uniquely new problem. In fact it was far worse prior to the Fox acquisition and Ike Perlmutter being removed. Fox was also producing 'Marvel' movies, but not "Marvel Cinematic Universe" movies. X-men, Fantastic Four and Deadpool. Perlmutter even had Disney producing in-house, disconnected TV shows. Most of these were bombing badly as the MCU was questionably at its peak box office wise.

I don't think the general public actually had brand confusion, so I really do not think it matters that much. The few that were successful, were because they were actually well liked (Logan, Deadpool). People inherently know what belongs to the MCU proper and what doesn't.

Now if Tom Holland was in Madame Webb... that would have been a problem.

The MCU current problem is that even the core stuff right now is becoming too meandering and lost to the overarching plot, so people are discarding it, especially if it's not great.

 

[TP2000]

The budget for Joker 2 has ballooned to over $200 million and Gladiator 2 is over $310 million.

In case we’re still pretending grossly inflated budgets are a uniquely Disney problem.

I don't think we are pretending that. It's obvious when you look at the comparison charts in this thread that many movies from other companies have $200+ Million budgets now.

The difference with Disney's $200+ Million budgets is that it's become increasingly rare that one of them actually breaks even at the box office, much less make a small profit for Disney.

Disney had 7 movies in 2023 with budgets of $200 Million or more. Only one (1) of them broke even and made a profit; Guardians 3 with a $61 Million profit. The other six mega-budget movies from Disney in 2023 all lost money at the box office.

Combined, these 6 movies lost approximately $877 Million for Disney in 2023.

Ant-Man: Production $200, Marketing $100, Domestic B.O. Take $129, Foreign B.O. Take $100 = $71 Million Loss
Mermaid: Production $250, Marketing $140*, Domestic B.O. Take $179, Foreign B.O. Take $108 = $103 Million Loss
Elemental: Production $200, Marketing $100, Domestic B.O. Take $93, Foreign B.O. Take $133 = $74 Million Loss
Indy 5: Production $300, Marketing $100, Domestic B.O. Take $104, Foreign B.O. Take $83 = $213 Million Loss
The Marvels: Production $220*, Marketing $100, Domestic B.O. Take $51, Foreign B.O. Take $45 = $224 Million Loss
Wish: Production $200, Marketing $100, Domestic B.O. Take $38, Foreign B.O. Take $70 = $192 Million Loss

*A note on the asterisks: Marketing budgets were historically considered to be half of the production budget, but with bloated budgets of $200 Million or more I capped marketing at $100 Million, unless there was reliable media sources that said otherwise. Mermaid was noted by Variety and other industry sources as having a $140 Million marketing budget. The production budget of $275 Million for The Marvels was reduced to $220 Million thanks to a $55 Million subsidy from the British government.

 

[BrianLo]

Combined, these 6 movies lost approximately $877 Million for Disney in 2023.

Though content sales and licensing only reported a loss of 720 million for the calendar year.

I think the four *biggest* culprits were most assuredly Indy, The Marvels, Haunted Mansion and Wish. The rest a bit sitting on a bubble or lifted up by post-theatrical and Way of Water/Guardians spill overs.