Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
I find our exchange tedious and annoying. Don’t worry, it’s almost over. I know myself.

Did I call you a racist? Or did you draw that line yourself? Why so defensive/self-conscious?
Tony, your insinuations in previous posts have been quite clear, and my responses reflect that. It’s not about being defensive; it’s about standing firm in my beliefs. Rest assured, I’m not racist, and I’m pleased we’re on the same page there. Now, since you mentioned your exit is imminent, feel free to make your departure. I, on the other hand, will remain here, steadfast as always.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
You tell me, caleb. I’ve laid out my cinematic beliefs in my previous posts. For Mermaid, Wonka, Haunted Mansion, Wish - my views are there. Wonka is great, Mansion very good, Wish average, and Mermaid, well, it’s gimmicky on many levels. It seems our cinematic tastes just don’t align, and that’s all there is to it.
You want me to tell you what your beliefs are?

It sounds like by “beliefs,” maybe you mean “opinions” or “taste in films?”
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Tony, your insinuations in previous posts have been quite clear
“Just a spoonful of sugar…”
Now, since you mentioned your exit is imminent
Oh, I’m not going anywhere. I’m just wishing you away to the cornfield with the others.

(That’s right, I’m Anthony.)
IMG_2455.jpeg


God love that button.
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
“Just a spoonful of sugar…”

Oh, I’m not going anywhere. I’m just wishing you away to the cornfield with the others.

(That’s right, I’m Anthony.)
View attachment 761906

God love that button.
I’m glad to hear you’re staying, Tony. It’s important to remember that differences in opinion are natural and healthy part of conversation. It’s through different perspectives that we can learn, grow. Sending someone off to the ‘cornfield’ because you disagree with them might not be the answer.
Embracing diversity of opinion enriches our understanding of others. It’s alright to disagree; it’s how we handle these disagreements that truly matters. Let’s use this as an opportunity to learn from each other and strengthen our bond.

Tony the Tiger:
“I’m just wishing you away to the cornfield with the others.
(That’s right, I’m Anthony.)”

Anthony “Tony” Fremont from “The Twilight Zone” is a young boy with godlike powers, enabling him to alter reality on a whim. Despite his immense abilities, he retains the emotional maturity of a child, often acting unpredictably and at times cruelly. His power to make people vanish instills fear in those around him. “Tony” is not simply evil; rather, he’s a tragic figure, embodying the dangers of great power wielded without moral maturity. His story is a profound reflection on power, responsibility, and the complexities of youthful innocence.
 
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CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
I’ve never understood the “create new stories for actors of colour” argument. A black Ariel and the character Noodle are not mutually exclusive.
The argument you’re referring to goes beyond just casting actors of color in existing stories. It’s about striking a balance between creating new, innovative narratives and reimagining classic tales, much like the creative approach taken in “Wonka.” The concern is that simply recasting roles in remakes of well-known stories like “Beauty and the Beast,” “The Lion King,” or “The Little Mermaid” can sometimes feel like a superficial change, a ‘gimmick,’ rather than a meaningful engagement with diversity and storytelling.

When we talk about inclusivity in film and media, it’s not just about who is on screen, but also about the stories being told. Audiences are looking for fresh, original content that resonates with the diverse experiences of today’s world, not just the same old narratives with different faces. This is not to say that a black Ariel or any diverse casting choice is problematic. Rather, it’s an encouragement for the industry to go further — to create new stories that reflect a broader range of cultures, experiences, and perspectives, alongside reimagining the classics.

So, it’s not as simple as an issue of ‘people of color’ in remakes. It’s about the need for the entertainment industry to evolve, offering both representation and originality. It’s about understanding that audiences’ disinterest in remakes may stem from a desire for more than just a change in casting, but a change in the kind of stories being told.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
The argument you’re referring to goes beyond just casting actors of color in existing stories. It’s about striking a balance between creating new, innovative narratives and reimagining classic tales, much like the creative approach taken in “Wonka.” The concern is that simply recasting roles in remakes of well-known stories like “Beauty and the Beast,” “The Lion King,” or “The Little Mermaid” can sometimes feel like a superficial change, a ‘gimmick,’ rather than a meaningful engagement with diversity and storytelling.

When we talk about inclusivity in film and media, it’s not just about who is on screen, but also about the stories being told. Audiences are looking for fresh, original content that resonates with the diverse experiences of today’s world, not just the same old narratives with different faces. This is not to say that a black Ariel or any diverse casting choice is problematic. Rather, it’s an encouragement for the industry to go further — to create new stories that reflect a broader range of cultures, experiences, and perspectives, alongside reimagining the classics.

So, it’s not as simple as an issue of ‘people of color’ in remakes. It’s about the need for the entertainment industry to evolve, offering both representation and originality. It’s about understanding that audiences’ disinterest in remakes may stem from a desire for more than just a change in casting, but a change in the kind of stories being told.
No-one is framing it as an either/or choice except for those who dislike the recasting of traditionally white roles.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
The argument you’re referring to goes beyond just casting actors of color in existing stories. It’s about striking a balance between creating new, innovative narratives and reimagining classic tales, much like the creative approach taken in “Wonka.” The concern
Your concern, you mean? Who else are you speaking for?
is that simply recasting roles in remakes of well-known stories like “Beauty and the Beast,” “The Lion King,” or “The Little Mermaid” can sometimes feel
Feel? To whom?
like a superficial change, a ‘gimmick,’ rather than a meaningful engagement with diversity and storytelling.
I’m not sure why you write as though you’re speaking on behalf of others.

The artists involved push for a degree of authenticity in the production. Who are you to say that, for example, Halle Baily’s performance in TLM is somehow inauthentic? Inauthentic to what?
When we talk about inclusivity in film and media, it’s not just about who is on screen, but also about the stories being told.
Has anyone said otherwise?
Audiences
Which audiences?
are looking for fresh, original content
How many of the biggest hits over the last few years have been sequels, reboots, or franchised IPs?
that resonates with the diverse experiences of today’s world, not just the same old narratives with different faces. This is not to say that a black Ariel or any diverse casting choice is problematic.
Oh, good.
Rather, it’s an encouragement for the industry to go further — to create new stories that reflect a broader range of cultures,
Like Wish? Ms. Marvel? American Born Chinese (which is being cancelled)?
experiences, and perspectives, alongside reimagining the classics.
What are you ignoring that Disney is doing both?
So, it’s not as simple as an issue of ‘people of color’ in remakes. It’s about the need for the entertainment industry to evolve, offering both representation and originality.
As they are. And have been. But a significant subset of the audience aren’t having it, and don’t seem content to let others enjoy it.
It’s about understanding that audiences’ disinterest in remakes may stem from a desire for more than just a change in casting, but a change in the kind of stories being told.
Turning Red was a film about female adolescence. Strange World was a cautionary tale about the environment dressed up as a classic pulp science fantasy. Lightyear is a meta take on the astronaut that inspired the Buzz Lightyear toy in Toy Story. These seem like pretty significant changes to the kind of stories being told, don’t you think?
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
Your concern, you mean? Who else are you speaking for?

Feel? To whom?

I’m not sure why you write as though you’re speaking on behalf of others.

The artists involved push for a degree of authenticity in the production. Who are you to say that, for example, Halle Baily’s performance in TLM is somehow inauthentic? Inauthentic to what?

Has anyone said otherwise?

Which audiences?

How many of the biggest hits over the last few years have been sequels, reboots, or franchised IPs?

Oh, good.

Like Wish? Ms. Marvel? American Born Chinese (which is being cancelled)?

What are you ignoring that Disney is doing both?

As they are. And have been. But a significant subset of the audience aren’t having it, and don’t seem content to let others enjoy it.

Turning Red was a film about female adolescence. Strange World was a cautionary tale about the environment dressed up as a classic pulp science fantasy. Lightyear is a meta take on the astronaut that inspired the Buzz Lightyear toy in Toy Story. These seem like pretty significant changes to the kind of stories being told, don’t you think?
It’s all about finding the right balance. We need fresh, original stories, and I’ll begrudgingly give you new takes on the classics(I’m not a fan, new Lion King wasn’t necessary).
“The Last of Us”, “Stranger Things” – they’re great examples of how taking a risk can really pay off, offering something deep and culturally rich.
But… we’ve have to remember that everyone’s got their own taste in films. It’s not right to bash people for what they like, don’t like. The goal should be to have a mix of different stories out there – something for everyone, without expecting every film to hit the mark with every single viewer. That’s the sweet spot for a vibrant movie scene.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
It’s all about finding the right balance. We need fresh, original stories, and I’ll begrudgingly give you new takes on the classics(I’m not a fan, new Lion King wasn’t necessary).
“The Last of Us”, “Stranger Things” – they’re great examples of how taking a risk can really pay off, offering something deep and culturally rich.
But… we’ve have to remember that everyone’s got their own taste in films. It’s not right to bash people for what they like, don’t like. The goal should be to have a mix of different stories out there – something for everyone, without expecting every film to hit the mark with every single viewer. That’s the sweet spot for a vibrant movie scene.
I find the conversation interesting when it goes beneath the surface of “I like this, I don’t like that” to exploring why may or may not like something.

Someone who’s only eaten food from his own culture might not be the best critic of food from other cultures. Especially if he insists on comparing other cultures’ food, without having given it a chance, to his familiar favorites.

Taste is subjective, but it can still be developed. And with a bit of humility, curiosity, and understanding, we can learn to like new things. That’s what I want for folks here because I’ve found so much to like about things that used to be foreign to me.
 

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
I find the conversation interesting when it goes beneath the surface of “I like this, I don’t like that” to exploring why may or may not like something.

Someone who’s only eaten food from his own culture might not be the best critic of food from other cultures. Especially if he insists on comparing other cultures’ food, without having given it a chance, to his familiar favorites.

Taste is subjective, but it can still be developed. And with a bit of humility, curiosity, and understanding, we can learn to like new things. That’s what I want for folks here because I’ve found so much to like about things that used to be foreign to me.
But the inverse to this is also true. If someone has tried something and didn't like it, even though the majority did, they are not automatically wrong. It is also just their taste. I will say I sure like conversation to the outright bickering. Sane points of view, even if differing from your own, add to real discussion.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
But the inverse to this is also true. If someone has tried something and didn't like it, even though the majority did, they are not automatically wrong. It is also just their taste. I will say I sure like conversation to the outright bickering. Sane points of view, even if differing from your own, add to real discussion.
In this case, why they don’t like it may well be a factor.

If you think the formerly white actor’s non-white “replacement” can’t sing or act, or the movie has bad special effects, that’s more likely to be grounded criticism.

If you just don’t like “race swapping,” that tells us nothing about the film, just about the person speaking.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
But the inverse to this is also true. If someone has tried something and didn't like it, even though the majority did, they are not automatically wrong. It is also just their taste. I will say I sure like conversation to the outright bickering. Sane points of view, even if differing from your own, add to real discussion.
I agree! I try not to bicker, only to discuss. But I don’t usually find it very satisfying to read a post that amounts to, “I just don’t like it.”

Sometimes, the reason someone doesn’t like something is that they don’t understand it. Or they haven’t tried it. Or that they haven’t tried enough of it. Sometimes it IS just a matter of taste, but with insight, we can learn to appreciate even those things we don’t personally care for.

To me, the important thing is the attitude.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Biggest box office surprise to me this season is Anyone But You. It's now improved on its previous weekend gross for the 2nd time now, and is at $43.7 million domestically against a $25 million budget. It won't be a blockbuster, but it's proof that word of mouth can help lower budget films if they find the right audience.

This is the kind of movie that could have been released under Touchstone or Hollywood Pictures (it's a Sony release).
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
It does not bother me… as I have also been discussing movies outside of Disney… However A couple of times I mentioned other movies to show the box office was not just a Disney issue… you told me this thread
is about Disney box office exclusively… and the only times you mentioned other movies is to compare numbers with Disney movies that were similar… so what Disney film are you comparing the Color Purple to?

Any of Disney's recent musicals, really. At least in my mind.

But that may be due to my generation. When I think "musical" I think two things; Walt Disney and/or Rodgers & Hammerstein.

EDIT: Except in summer, when Rodgers & Hammerstein is replaced with Frankie & Annette in my viewing list of musicals.
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
The box office this year is and was bad for Disney. But we're having trouble actually sticking to that topic every time someone swings around to the company being in a 1.2 billion deficit and needing to shutter the studios. Those statements are highly purposefully misleading.

For the record;
  • Disney lost $1.248 Billion at the box office in 2023.
  • I have never called for shuttering all the studios. I don't think anyone here has, have they?
  • I have said repeatedly though that keeping Pixar up in Emeryville in the 21st century no longer makes sense. It's duplicative and wasteful, especially when neither WDAS or Pixar has had a film break even at the box office since before Covid.
  • In addition, they need to do another round of layoffs at the Burbank studio campus. Slashing their budgets by half in order to have a better shot at merely breaking even will require tough decisions, slashing perks and benefits, and real layoffs.
 

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