Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Tha Realest]

This is a great recipe for never increasing diversity. Never.

You’re also pushing the idea that there will be someone who is clearly “best” for a role. That’s not how anything works. For any position or role you have a range of strong, qualified candidates. Any one would be great. So you pick based on other considerations. Perhaps one of these considerations is a desire to increase diversity - or, much, much more commonly, a desire not to.

You know who is “best” for a lead role in a film? A reliable movie star. Not a TV series lead. Decades of experience demonstrates this.

 

[orky8]

Honestly I think it's dumb. I still subscribe to the idea that people know to wait a few months to watch things. Pull the band aid and wait like 9 months to stream this, reprogram your viewers.

Then I'll wait 9 months. I had no desire to go to a theater to see that movie - it simply isn't drawing to audiences. And I don't think I'm alone in this and the box office numbers seem to validate my thinking.

Heck, besides the discussion here, I've truly forgotten that The Marvels is a thing, so when it hits D+ whether in February 2024 or much later, that will be the next time I give any thought to the movie and maybe, at that time, it'll be worth the investment, which is zero $, so just an investment of time, as Verizon continues to pay for my D+. And, again, I don't think I'm alone in this.

Disney doesn't need to reprogram their viewers, they need to reconnect with their viewers.

 

[erasure fan1]

They hit there target audience with Barbie and sent the message that audience wants to hear.
They knew exactly who they were selling the movie to.

Mario did the same thing. They made the movie unapologetically for fans of Mario.

 

[LSLS]

Then I'll wait 9 months. I had no desire to go to a theater to see that movie - it simply isn't drawing to audiences. And I don't think I'm alone in this and the box office numbers seem to validate my thinking.

Heck, besides the discussion here, I've truly forgotten that The Marvels is a thing, so when it hits D+ whether in February 2024 or much later, that will be the next time I give any thought to the movie and maybe, at that time, it'll be worth the investment, which is zero $, so just an investment of time, as Verizon continues to pay for my D+. And, again, I don't think I'm alone in this.

Disney doesn't need to reprogram their viewers, they need to reconnect with their viewers.

Sure, that's a part of it (specifically with the Marvels). But that's kind of my point here. I don't think holding the Marvels for another 6 months really changes people getting D+, but it does send a message for future releases. I don't think the Marvels specifically is hurting from everyone knowing you just need to wait a few months to stream for "free" (at least it's not the biggest thing hurting Marvel), but I think there are other films where this has definitely hurt them, and I think you need to change that now if you want to save your box office in the future.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Well, I saw Barbie this weekend. After seeing it, there is almost no chance you are going to convince me that Disney's film "Messaging" has anything to do with where they were at. Honestly, I can't figure out why everyone likes the Barbie film anyways (honestly I cringed way more than I laughed at anything in it), but there is no chance you can sit there and say that the Marvels was some girl power messaging that caused it to fall apart while Barbie was made it's numbers. So I'm back to it's streaming, and it's Marvel movies having no direction at this point.

Most of the criticism I've seen about The Marvels was not about messaging so much as it simply wasn't very good. Even the Critical Drinker, who panned the film, was surprised how little messaging the film contained.

 

[orky8]

Sure, that's a part of it (specifically with the Marvels). But that's kind of my point here. I don't think holding the Marvels for another 6 months really changes people getting D+, but it does send a message for future releases. I don't think the Marvels specifically is hurting from everyone knowing you just need to wait a few months to stream for "free" (at least it's not the biggest thing hurting Marvel), but I think there are other films where this has definitely hurt them, and I think you need to change that now if you want to save your box office in the future.

Perhaps, so rip the band-aide with this one (Marvels) that no one cares about anyway? I could see that. Fundamentally, I'm not sure it matters. There is just too much content out there and compelling content will draw people to theaters. I haven't seen Wish, even though I kinda want to. But I'll just wait till it comes out on D+ because it is not compelling to me. Whether that's 3 months from now or 12 months from now, I'm still fine to wait because I don't have a burning desire to see it - that is the fundamental problem. And, I'm not trying to diagnose why I feel that way here, though I do have many thoughts on that topic, just responding to the D+ timing aspect and that I ultimately don't think that is the problem Disney is facing. And, again, given the box office numbers, I don't seem to be alone.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Wait 3 years and then Create characters and a story line that resonates with the die hard, core Star Wars/Marvel fans that honors the Marvel Comics/and respects the vision of Star Wars by George Lucas…. And crowds will come.
Respects the core audience and the others will follow.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Well, I saw Barbie this weekend. After seeing it, there is almost no chance you are going to convince me that Disney's film "Messaging" has anything to do with where they were at. Honestly, I can't figure out why everyone likes the Barbie film anyways (honestly I cringed way more than I laughed at anything in it), but there is no chance you can sit there and say that the Marvels was some girl power messaging that caused it to fall apart while Barbie was made it's numbers. So I'm back to it's streaming, and it's Marvel movies having no direction at this point.

I think the Marvel movie ranked very high on the "meh" scale (the ultimate "I'll just catch in on streaming" movie), while the marketing for Barbie was genius. Pop-up events, Instagram-able opportunities galore (pink popcorn and life-size Barbie Box photo props in theaters, women dressing up as Barbie to attend), all the right product tie-ins.

Also, The Marvels and Barbie both had a Girl Power message, but were otherwise quite different. The aesthetic and events surrounding Barbie were super Girly Girl. The Marvels was a superhero movie, which is a fairly different context. My sense is that epic style movies are more about the viewer's emotional journey and investment in the characters - they have to be a bit more emotionally profound, a bit more "wow I just got chills" to really land. A movie like Barbie, alternately, can afford to be a bit more tongue-in-cheek, funny and fun, because it's more an "event" movie.

 

[DKampy]

Why does it have to be as big as Taylor swift? When I say bigger, I mean more artists doing it. Have you tried to get tickets for a popular concert? It's a great idea in my opinion. I can even see sporting events getting in on it. What I find interesting is I keep hearing a lot of, the film industry is changing and the viewing habits are changing... So why wouldn't it be smart for theaters to find alternative income channels? I could see sporting events becoming huge as well.

Never thought you meant as big as Taylor Swift….as that is a given… nobody will be able to reach those heights ….but I would suspect if “Concert films were going to only get bigger in the next few years“ one would want at least a 20 million opening since it cost Taylor at least 10 million to produce her film… that was just filming a concert….Beyoncé opened to 21 million and I don’t see anybody else coming close to that as she is probably the second most bankable music star…that is less then Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, and Michael Jackson opened years ago without inflation

However when you mention you could see sporting events as well…then perhaps you mean one night only live engagements…This I agree with…they already have done this in the past year with the likes of Coldplay and some KPop groups

 

[_caleb]

Wait 3 years and then Create characters and a story line that resonates with the die hard, core Star Wars/Marvel fans that honors the Marvel Comics/and respects the vision of Star Wars by George Lucas…. And crowds will come.
Respects the core audience and the others will follow.

It is not even remotely possible to create a film that “resonates with die hard, core fans.” This is not a singular, reliably pleasable group.

 

[CinematicFusion]

What? In what world?

In what world is a college age transgendered person going to be in a hit Disney movie because the writing is better?

Let me be more precise: in what world in this decade?

Don’t do check boxes? No one can ever explain why. Why is it any different to write a white character vs. a non-white character when it comes to creativity or storytelling?

People claim folks don’t go first week because of poor storytelling. Well, first week people have no idea about the storytelling because they haven’t seen it yet.

How many people outside this forum said they wouldn’t go see Strange World because of poor storytelling and how many said it was because “Disney lost its way and is snubbing their longtime fans by showing this non-family oriented family?”

I get bored with superhero movies, I got bored by the middle of Iron Man 2. I saw Ant Man and Guardians because they “looked good” and had no expectations of them tying into anything. I was bored to death and had to force myself to finish the first Captain America and I will never watch it again. But The Marvels went down easy, it was one of the most fun Marvel movies out there, and I will see it again on D+.

First Captain America was awesome. Loved it.
Marvels was terrible, I’m not alone there.
Wish was average to me, felt plain and corporate. Again, not alone with that thought.
Eternals was unwatchable
Recent Antman was terrible
I liked Loki.
I guess Disney is making the movies movies you want to see and that’s great for you.

 

[CinematicFusion]

It is not even remotely possible to create a film that “resonates with die hard, core fans.” This is not a singular, reliably pleasable group.

Say Hello to Barbie, Mario

 

[celluloid]

Say Hello to Barbie, Mario

Heck, Universal even got the history nerds and general public down pat with Oppenheimer this year.
Five Nights at Freddy's resonated with fans and general audience pretty darn well too.

 

[el_super]

You know who is “best” for a lead role in a film? A reliable movie star. Not a TV series lead. Decades of experience demonstrates this.

Like some Oscar winners right? That's who they need to get in their Marvel movies. Only Oscar winners.

 

[el_super]

Wait 3 years and then Create characters and a story line that resonates with the die hard, core Star Wars/Marvel fans that honors the Marvel Comics/and respects the vision of Star Wars by George Lucas…. And crowds will come.
Respects the core audience and the others will follow.

No ... the crowds won't come. That's been well established.

If we've hit the point where we are saying Marvel can't appeal to a wide audience, and instead has to either appeal to one side or the other, than we are basically making a case for no longer making Marvel movies. They've already paused Star Wars, so maybe it's best to pause both for a few years until they can both be rebooted.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Heck, Universal even got the history nerds and general public down pat with Oppenheimer this year.
Five Nights at Freddy's resonated with fans and general audience pretty darn well too.

You hit it on the head with “Five Nights at Freddy’s” I had never even heard of it but my daughters couldn’t wait to see it and new everything about the Lore, characters of the story.
It was fun having them watch something they are geek over. They enjoyed Barbie also. You are correct… Universal has the pulse on what people want to see.
That is exactly what I’m talking about

 

[CinematicFusion]

No ... the crowds won't come. That's been well established.

If we've hit the point where we are saying Marvel can't appeal to a wide audience, and instead has to either appeal to one side or the other, than we are basically making a case for no longer making Marvel movies. They've already paused Star Wars, so maybe it's best to pause both for a few years until they can both be rebooted.

My point is Marvel isn’t appealing to the core audience with the crap they have been tossing out with Eternals, Marvels, Antman. Core audience knows quality storytelling… and that isn’t it.

Last Indiana Jones was a terrible story because…

Spoiler

Nazis could have tied up Indy at start of film, successfully completed the mission and still failed because it only takes you to one place in time. Pointless.

 

[celluloid]

You hit it on the head with “Five Nights at Freddy’s” I had never even heard of it but my daughters couldn’t wait to see it and new everything about the Lore, characters of the story.
It was fun having them watch something they are geek over. They enjoyed Barbie also. You are correct… Universal has the pulse on what people want to see.
That is exactly what I’m talking about

Very true. My son nerded out over the lore the way I used to Ghostbusters and Disney. It was different being the novice and he shared a passion with me.

 

[el_super]

My point is Marvel isn’t appealing to the core audience with the crap they have been tossing out with Eternals, Marvels, Antman. Core audience knows quality storytelling… and that isn’t it.

So what's the problem with the storytelling? Could it just be that all Marvel movies are essentially the same? All the heroes basically follow the same archetype? That they are running into problems by bending or adjusting the archetype in order to stay fresh and alienating one side or the other?

If the answer is that Marvel movies have to stay the same in order to be well received then yeah, they were doomed to run their course eventually anyway.

 

[CinematicFusion]

So what's the problem with the storytelling? Could it just be that all Marvel movies are essentially the same? All the heroes basically follow the same archetype? That they are running into problems by bending or adjusting the archetype in order to stay fresh and alienating one side or the other?

If the answer is that Marvel movies have to stay the same in order to be well received then yeah, they were doomed to run their course eventually anyway.

That is the core question.
All I can tell you is Eternals was beyond terrible, felt like Superman 4 from the 80s.