Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Tony the Tigger]

That's just it. This notion that it was some great film that was taken down by a group of narrow minded individuals is crazy. Did it have an impact? Yea, I'm sure it did. But when push comes to shove, it was mediocre film. If people thought they were going to get the Buzz that they know and love, and were disappointed they didn't, how's that the fans problem? It seems like a miscalculation on Pixars part in my opinion. Unfortunately that seems to be a hard thing for some to come to terms with.

The bolded is totally fair.

The fact is it was also affected by an orchestrated campaign because of the kiss.

14 Countries Ban Pixar's 'Lightyear' Over Gay Kiss Scene; Chris Evans Calls It ‘Frustrating'

The scene, which includes the female character Hawthorne (voiced by Uzo Aduba) and her lover, was initially deleted from the film but was restored after a public uproar.

www.indiatimes.com

Parental Warning: ‘Lightyear’ Includes Same-Sex Kiss, Relationship

REVIEW: Latest film embraces Disney’s ‘LGBTQ’ agenda.

www.ncregister.com

Countries are censoring the new Buzz Lightyear movie over a same-sex kissing scene. It's not the first time that Disney has faced LGBTQ backlash.

'Lightyear,' released during Pride month, features a gay kiss — but critics question the company's commitment to LGBTQ rights

fortune.com

Disney Tries to Make It Better by Restoring Lightyear’s Lesbian Kiss

Following Pixar employees’ response to the handling of the “Don’t Say Gay” bill.

www.vulture.com

Oklahoma Movie Theater Posts 'Warning' Sign About Lightyear Gay Kiss, Local Calls the Move 'Bigoted'

'Lightyear' was banned in several countries overseas for containing a kiss between two female characters, and the theater in Oklahoma apologized to parents for the "inconvenience" of the scene

people.com

Disney’s first gay kiss is the least worrying part of Lightyear

In a world where girls and boys are interchangeable, comedy writer James Cary is more concerned with Lightyear's confusing gender messaging

www.premierchristianity.com

 

[el_super]

It wasn't the same Buzz character. It was a generic, far less interesting character who shared the same name and some superficial traits with the beloved Toy Story character, but not much else.

What? Buzz Lightyear's story was resolved back in 1995. He's been set dressing ever since. How is that character interesting in any way and where else could they go with it in the mineline stories? Makes sense to reboot him entirely.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The bolded is totally fair.

The fact is it was also affected by an orchestrated campaign because of the kiss.

14 Countries Ban Pixar's 'Lightyear' Over Gay Kiss Scene; Chris Evans Calls It ‘Frustrating'

The scene, which includes the female character Hawthorne (voiced by Uzo Aduba) and her lover, was initially deleted from the film but was restored after a public uproar.

www.indiatimes.com

Parental Warning: ‘Lightyear’ Includes Same-Sex Kiss, Relationship

REVIEW: Latest film embraces Disney’s ‘LGBTQ’ agenda.

www.ncregister.com

Countries are censoring the new Buzz Lightyear movie over a same-sex kissing scene. It's not the first time that Disney has faced LGBTQ backlash.

'Lightyear,' released during Pride month, features a gay kiss — but critics question the company's commitment to LGBTQ rights

fortune.com

Disney Tries to Make It Better by Restoring Lightyear’s Lesbian Kiss

Following Pixar employees’ response to the handling of the “Don’t Say Gay” bill.

www.vulture.com

Oklahoma Movie Theater Posts 'Warning' Sign About Lightyear Gay Kiss, Local Calls the Move 'Bigoted'

'Lightyear' was banned in several countries overseas for containing a kiss between two female characters, and the theater in Oklahoma apologized to parents for the "inconvenience" of the scene

people.com

Disney’s first gay kiss is the least worrying part of Lightyear

In a world where girls and boys are interchangeable, comedy writer James Cary is more concerned with Lightyear's confusing gender messaging

www.premierchristianity.com

I still think it would have “powered through” had it been a story that appeal to core Toy Story fans…

Would have taken an hit due to politics…but not a complete flop

 

[celluloid]

The Buzzlightyear kiss is shared by both extreme sides. Whether someone wants it and more to be in there, or none of it all, they are making it a bigger deal and impact to the box office than it was.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I don't think Lightyear was a bad movie, but it was NOT the movie audiences wanted and it missed the appeal of the Buzz Lightyear character. It was supposed to be a fun, pulpy space adventure — not a gloomy, cerebral time-travel drama.

I think of Lightyear almost as an original sci-fi movie as it just feels so disconnected from the Lightyear of the Toy Story movies.

This is why I have my own theory that it started out as an original sci-fi movie, than had the Toy Story IP added on to help get it green lit.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

the concept was in flux from development to release.

Which seems to happen a lot with Disney of late, and probably accounts in part for the high costs due to so many changes and reshoots during production.

 

[Phroobar]

I've been thinking, could it be that we have just grown up and Disney isn't what we remember from our childhood. It's like how Star Wars fans have turned against the brand because it doesn't give them the warm feelings at 50 like it did when they were 12. Disney movies are not designed for us anymore. It is for small kids but we are smart enough read between the lines for objectional content as adults that we would have not understood as children.

Disney isn't like ice cream. It's possible to not like it later in life.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I've been thinking, could it be that we have just grown up and Disney isn't what we remember from our childhood. It's like how Star Wars fans have turned against the brand because it doesn't give them the warm feelings at 50 like it did when they were 12. Disney movies are not designed for us anymore. It is for small kids but we are smart enough read between the lines for objectional content as adults that we would have not understood as children.

Disney isn't like ice cream. It's possible to not like it later in life.

I think that’s entirely possible and it’s a huge problem for them…

Their two biggest/strongest generations of fans - boom and X - are blinking out and/or tiring…

And that may be too big of a hole for even the D to climb out of

 

[TP2000]

I've been thinking, could it be that we have just grown up and Disney isn't what we remember from our childhood. It's like how Star Wars fans have turned against the brand because it doesn't give them the warm feelings at 50 like it did when they were 12. Disney movies are not designed for us anymore. It is for small kids but we are smart enough read between the lines for objectional content as adults that we would have not understood as children.

Disney isn't like ice cream. It's possible to not like it later in life.

Possibly, but that doesn't explain why the Gen Z demographics have collapsed for Marvel, which is theoretically the studio for teenage boys and young men.

40% of the audience for Captain Marvel in 2019 was aged 18-25
19% of the audience for The Marvels in 2023 was aged 18-25

Meanwhile, that exact same demographic of teens and college aged boys flocked to Five Nights At Freddy's, so it's not like the guys are suddenly refusing to leave the basement or fraternity house to see a movie.

They've just lost interest in Marvel specifically. And they are young and the future of box office results.

 

[Willmark]

While possible I don’t think that’s it the answer that people have checked out entirely. It’s a variety of factors some under disneys control, some not. The disastrous box office of 2023 reflects that.

Whether Disney it’s adherents or whoever want to dismiss it Disney is a reflection of the times. Disney used to have a universal appeal and in their latest filings touch on some of the reasons.

People can claim inevitably of their own stances all they want as to what they want Disney to do going forward.

Here’s the thing. History is littered with the hubris of companies “too big to fail.”

Ask Kodak how that worked out. While I don’t think Disney is going to go bankrupt they are going to look different than they do now.

The question is when, not if IMO.

As always YMMV.

 

[el_super]

Here’s the thing. History is littered with the hubris of companies “too big to fail.”

Ask Kodak how that worked out. While I don’t think Disney is going to go bankrupt they are going to look different than they do now.

Companies like Kodak failed because they didn't embrace the future and got stuck in the past.

Disney is already transitioning their business to be more future proof in the migration to streaming. It's rough and messy, but they knew that getting into this. They still moved forward with Disney+ because they realized they had no other option to ensure they don't become another Kodak.

In the coming decades, when in-person theaters start going the way of Sears and KMart, Disney will have the upper hand.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

It's like how Star Wars fans have turned against the brand because it doesn't give them the warm feelings at 50 like it did when they were 12.

That's their choice as "fans." I wish I had so few problems in life that all I had to worry about was turning against Star Wars.

Star Wars was one of the first movies I saw in theaters as a kid (after Jaws) that wasn't Benji, and it ruined movies for me for the rest of my life, including their own prequels and so forth.

I identify with the "this is not what I wanted" crowds for different films because that was how I felt at the time about the prequels, especially the first one. But I didn't take a fit over it.

The bottom line is I am not the artist or the author. They are. I am open-minded enough to see where they want to take me. If I enjoy it, great. If I like some things and others not so much, fine. If I hate it, fine. I don't get all mad at the movie studio. It's one of the least important things in life, as much as I love my TV and movies - it's just not important in the big picture. It's entertainment. If someone doesn't find something entertaining, they move along. That's OK!

Outside of the original trilogy, Star Wars will never be what I would have wished it to be. But, there it is. I actually had no issue with what they did with Luke. Some things go wrong in life. That's how it is. Some things are unexpected. That's better than formulaic.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I think that’s entirely possible and it’s a huge problem for them…

Their two biggest/strongest generations of fans - boom and X - are blinking out and/or tiring…

And that may be too big of a hole for even the D to climb out of

Seriously, I feel like I've seen just about everything at this point. Very little is fresh or surprising, and I have moderate expectations of every film and TV show. I enjoyed the Marvel stuff. It will never be Star Wars. It will never be meaningful, just entertaining. Harry Potter came closer than any other series (but of course it rips off all the basics from Star Wars.)

TV shows, movies - we're old. We've seen every version of every story with different characters interchanged. Sure, there are some bright spots, but how many 25 year old writers are going to put one past us?

Sure, there were advances as far as realism and pushing the envelope on cable/streaming. (They pronounced most of the Italian words correctly on The Sopranos, hey!)

These days, I've been open to more old movies on TCM. It's interesting to watch how people used to talk and so forth. And they had fewer effects, so it relied more on the stories. They also overacted like crazy sometimes LOL.

So, just give me something enjoyable that I can relate to. I prefer something at an intelligence level a notch above CW shows, and something less graphic than many streaming shows. And I don't mind a little eye candy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Possibly, but that doesn't explain why the Gen Z demographics have collapsed for Marvel, which is theoretically the studio for teenage boys and young men.

40% of the audience for Captain Marvel in 2019 was aged 18-25
19% of the audience for The Marvels in 2023 was aged 18-25

Meanwhile, that exact same demographic of teens and college aged boys flocked to Five Nights At Freddy's, so it's not like the guys are suddenly refusing to leave the basement or fraternity house to see a movie.

They've just lost interest in Marvel specifically. And they are young and the future of box office results.

Well they oversaturated marvel…that’s hard to dispute

They just didn’t tell the Praets yet -so they’ll never believe it


Which is funny because they told them they oversaturated Star Wars and thy believed that…when they just screwed it up in an act of creative malfeasance

 

[TalkingHead]

Disney Execs Talk Quality Over Quantity, Plug Parks, Say ESPN Still Eyeing 2025 DTC Launch And More From Bob Iger’s Town Hall

Disney’s anticipated all staff town hall saw CEO Bob Iger and top execs stressing a commitment to quality over quantity.

deadline.com

Choice quote: “But Bergman promised the studio will learned from its down year at the box office and move on with a slate that includes The Omen prequel, a new Planet of the Apes, Inside Out 2, a new Alien and Deadpool 3, which recently resumed filming post actors’ strike.”

Last Alien movie made $75m domestic. Sounds like they’ve got nothing going on but sequels and prequels to tired franchises. That should be a recipe for success.

 

[TP2000]

The numbers are out for Monday, AKA Box Office Brutality in Burbank...

Wish had an unusually steep drop off from the weekend, down 83%, likely owing to kids back in school.
The Marvels is cooked, stick a fork in it and send it to Disney+ "for free!".
Next Goal Wins is going to lose money even with a measly $10 Million budget.

Also, for those keeping score, Wish looks like it will easily get beat at the box office by Trolls Band Together. That's gotta sting.

 

[TP2000]

Here's how that matchup looks for Wish vs. Trolls, with a very weak opening for Wish not looking like it will find legs in the next week or two. Universal made Trolls Band Together on a production budget of $95 Million. Trolls should break even, barely.

But Wish was made with a budget more than double that of Trolls, at $200 Million. And it's performing even worse than Trolls at the domestic and overseas box office. Which begs the question... just how much money will Wish lose for Disney? $125 Million? $150 Million? Or more???

 

[Disney Irish]

Well they oversaturated marvel…that’s hard to dispute

They just didn’t tell the Praets yet -so they’ll never believe it


Which is funny because they told them they oversaturated Star Wars and thy believed that…when they just screwed it up in an act of creative malfeasance

I think most in the Marvel fan community know they produced too much content for the general public, many just don't care.

I myself want more MCU content, but I know that it'll be too much for many in the general public unless there are some stakes behind it. The D+ shows ended up being hit or miss for many. And that caused many in the general public to be turned off, even I can admit that.

The hope is with moving back toward some fan favorites next summer it'll right the ship.

 

[TP2000]

I think most in the Marvel fan community know they produced too much content for the general public, many just don't care.

Marvel must also produce the right kind of content to pull in the young male demographic that made Marvel such an enticing buy for Disney 15 years ago. Disney already has (had?) the girls and their moms with the Princesseses and cutesy animated movies and Mary Poppins-type content. Marvel and Lucas were supposed to pull in the young guys and father/son movie night demographic, a demographic that eluded Disney for decades.

Marvel can't keep making the same kind of content they've been making, but just make less of it.

Marvel certainly needs to limit the amount of content they produce, but also make sure everything they produce is aimed squarely at young men. Especially if they spend $300 Million or more on a movie for production/marketing. Or else this sort of thing will just keep happening over and over again for Marvel...

 

[Disney Irish]

Marvel must also produce the right kind of content to pull in the young male demographic that made Marvel such an enticing buy for Disney 15 years ago. Disney already has (had?) the girls and their moms with the Princesseses and cutesy animated movies and Mary Poppins-type content. Marvel and Lucas were supposed to pull in the young guys and father/son movie night demographic, a demographic that eluded Disney for decades.

Marvel can't keep making the same kind of content they've been making, but just make less of it.

Marvel certainly needs to limit the amount of content they produce, but also make sure everything they produce is aimed squarely at young men. Especially if they spend $300 Million or more on a movie for production/marketing. Or else this sort of thing will just keep happening over and over again for Marvel...

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Marvel can and has appealed to many demographics whether male or female. This idea that it should only appeal to the male demographic is outdated, especially considering how the next generation feels about such things.

So Marvel really needs to appeal less toward a specific gender and rather toward a younger demographic of any gender. That is the key to revitalizing the brand. They tried to start passing the torch by slowly introducing the Young Avengers, but did it in a way that many just weren't interested in yet, via the D+ shows.

It'll take awhile to get the next generation engaged. But the payoff will be huge, as you can't stick with the older generation as they are falling off. Got to replace them as time goes on. And that next generation doesn't care as much about whether something is geared toward male or female.