News Disney and Fox come to terms -- announcement soon; huge IP acquisition

[Sirwalterraleigh]

BS. Marvel gets crumbs from their current deal.

Two questions:
1. What’s the difference between “profit” and “revenue”
2. What do public companies crave?

The idea that Disney wants to build $1.5 worth of rides and to staff them to make money 10 years from now is foolhardy.

Iger has a couple years left...maybe...there ends the Longview

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Two questions:
1. What’s the difference between “profit” and “revenue”
2. What do public companies crave?

The idea that Disney wants to build $1.5 worth of rides and to staff them to make money 10 years from now is foolhardy.

Iger has a couple years left...maybe...there ends the Longview

Marvel makes very little money from its UNI deal. They make considerably less than say JKR and WB do with the Wizarding Worlds, for instance. Less revenue and less profit.

While flawed, bringing Marvel half assed to WDW will make them considerably more revenue and profit than the current arrangement with UNI.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3358578-cnbc-fox-nearing-plan-shareholder-vote-disney-bid

Twenty-First Century Fox (FOX +1.6%, FOXA +1.5%) is closing in on a shareholder vote over Walt Disney's (DIS +1.3%) bid for Fox's media assets, CNBC's David Faber reports.

The company will decide on a date for the vote in the next week or two, and likely set it in mid-July, Faber says.

Meanwhile, Comcast (CMCSA +0.6%) is shaping up its own bid likely for mid-June, setting up a dramatic battle ahead and the prospect of a bidding war.

Why would disney want Comcast’s marvel piece? That’s a legit question?

It's pretty obvious why they want it. Same reason they want/acquired Marvel movie rights back even though they get/got licensing fees from them.

They don't need it though as I think you're alluding to.

 

[HauntedMansion513]

WDW will be known as the home to Marvel Characters in Orlando no matter what happens. Everyone knows Guardians of the Galaxy is Marvel. Dr. Strange is Marvel. Ant Man is Marvel. And more and more. Remember there is wording in the contract that incidental use such as pictures does not count as using the character. Lets see what the lawyers come up with and that there were many posters here that said no Marvel character would ever show up at WDW.

Yep! Universal will just have to get by with its attractions based off the super obscure characters of Spider Man and the Hulk...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Marvel makes very little money from its UNI deal. They make considerably less than say JKR and WB do with the Wizarding Worlds, for instance. Less revenue and less profit.

While flawed, bringing Marvel half assed to WDW will make them considerably more revenue and profit than the current arrangement with UNI.

It would...but not in the short term... it would involve more cost/debt...

The management wants higher stock prices for their parachutes...that’s not likely to change moving forward...sadly

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yep! Universal will just have to get by with its attractions based off the super obscure characters of Spider Man and the Hulk...

...exactly...I like the revisionist history that universal somehow DIDNT pick the best characters to use in the 1990s...

 

[Indy_UK]

I'm beginning to think that Disney don't really care about the lack of Marvel in WDW. They're giving a major push for it in the other lands across the world and by shoehorning Gardians into Futureworld, it doesn't leave them really with any expansion options in the future. I think they're happy with the deal as it probably stands.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm beginning to think that Disney don't really care about the lack of Marvel in WDW. They're giving a major push for it in the other lands across the world and by shoehorning Gardians into Futureworld, it doesn't leave them really with any expansion options in the future. I think they're happy with the deal as it probably stands.

Yeah...but you’re taking the obvious available information and making an informed opinion based on it...

You know not to do that around here

 

[Indy_UK]

Yeah...but you’re taking the obvious available information and making an informed opinion based on it...

You know not to do that around here

I don't get why people are looking into Disney getting the Marvel rights from Universal. If it really was something they were pursuing and thought they could obtain then they probably would not have bothered with Guardians in Epcot and done Mission Breakout in DHS with tons of Marvel potential in that area to grow and expand

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't get why people are looking into Disney getting the Marvel rights from Universal. If it really was something they were pursuing and thought they could obtain then they probably would not have bothered with Guardians in Epcot and done Mission Breakout in DHS with tons of Marvel potential in that area to grow and expand

You get so many mixed signals from this crowd...

There’s the “it’s a business...” Disney fans - who use that to justify any price they’re charged. I mean - I get it - it’s a way to justify paying and feeling like they’re “special”. (You don’t have to be Freud)

...but then some of the same are the ones that have cried for marvel since 2011. If “it’s a business”, then why on earth would they break their own contract and lose free money to then have to rebuild it, maintain it, and find and pay another 5,000 or so employees each year to support it.

I use “mentally lazy” a lot when talking about the customers. This is the example scenario after the definition.

 

[MisterPenguin]

...but then some of the same are the ones that have cried for marvel since 2011. If “it’s a business”, then why on earth would they break their own contract and lose free money to then have to rebuild it, maintain it, and find and pay another 5,000 or so employees each year to support it.

You've been told: WDW could make more money if they could leverage the MCU in their own park -- even taking into account the cost of building and maintaining -- than they currently get with the licensing fee that Marvel arranged for itself when it was cash-strapped.

And I don't think many, if any at all, are advocating "breaking" the contract. But buying out or renegotiating.

 

[Rodan75]

I don't get why people are looking into Disney getting the Marvel rights from Universal. If it really was something they were pursuing and thought they could obtain then they probably would not have bothered with Guardians in Epcot and done Mission Breakout in DHS with tons of Marvel potential in that area to grow and expand

I think you are correct on a lot of these points. Disney spent a lot of time, after the Marvel purchase, to decide on how they wanted to integrate Marvel into the existing parks, and now that they have begun teasing their plan it has reignited Orlando speculation. It always seemed silly for Disney to chase the Orlando rights when they weren't using their 'rest of the world' rights.

So between that and the Disney-Comcast-Fox asset war that seems to be coming, folks are speculating that a status quo change could come.

The Guardians Coaster, obviously pre-dates the Fox bid and the Comcast rebuttal, so using that as an indicator of strategy may be a flawed mindset.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You've been told: WDW could make more money if they could leverage the MCU in their own park -- even taking into account the cost of building and maintaining -- than they currently get with the licensing fee that Marvel arranged for itself when it was cash-strapped.

And I don't think many, if any at all, are advocating "breaking" the contract. But buying out or renegotiating.

Wouldn’t a buyout involve money? Not sure there’s a distinction.

If the themepark market continues to expand - which is NOT a given - then it would be reasonable to expect more money...over time. That is a PREDICTION...by the way. No guarantees on long term popularity. MCU could end up in transformer land in 10 years...we don’t know for sure.

But you have been told...but of course ignore it...that this type of management isn’t worried about the longterm. There is not incentive for them too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think you are correct on a lot of these points. Disney spent a lot of time, after the Marvel purchase, to decide on how they wanted to integrate Marvel into the existing parks, and now that they have begun teasing their plan it has reignited Orlando speculation. It always seemed silly for Disney to chase the Orlando rights when they weren't using their 'rest of the world' rights.

So between that and the Disney-Comcast-Fox asset war that seems to be coming, folks are speculating that a status quo change could come.

The Guardians Coaster, obviously pre-dates the Fox bid and the Comcast rebuttal, so using that as an indicator of strategy may be a flawed mindset.

Very reasonable...I can appreciate your take.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But you have been told...but of course ignore it...that this type of management isn’t worried about the longterm. There is not incentive for them too.

Tell me you don't seriously believe that. They just announced three new cruise ships that will probably cost a total of $5 billion (based on an estimated $1 billion each for the Dream and Fantasy, plus inflation, plus the fact that these will be bigger). That's the equivalent investment of a fifth and sixth gate. Just because they're not doing the things you want them to do doesn't mean they're not making long-term decisions.

 

[Lensman]

I don't get why people are looking into Disney getting the Marvel rights from Universal. If it really was something they were pursuing and thought they could obtain then they probably would not have bothered with Guardians in Epcot and done Mission Breakout in DHS with tons of Marvel potential in that area to grow and expand

I don't think they have a long-term strategy yet for Epcot, but they could convert Future World entirely to IP-based attractions. There's way more room in Future World than there is in DHS, right?

I don't think the Marvel rights east of the Mississippi are worth nothing like some here pretend to (and yes, I think some take extreme positions in arguments for whatever reason), but neither do I think that TWDC wants to pay a fortune to retrieve these rights. It might behoove both parties to let time pass. The Spiderman ride and the Hulk coaster will age and Universal will have less incentive to keep the rights. Does anyone know if Universal has plans to invest more in rides based on their Marvel IP? They have built-in disincentive to build more attractions that are deeply committed to Marvel IP because it will encumber their ability to sell these back to Disney one day. They have to trade that off against profiting from this IP. And if @Sirwalterraleigh is right about the ROI on attractions being intrinsically very low, what incentive do Universal have to build additional attractions based on Marvel IP?

I've often wondered at the synergistic value of attraction IP on follow-on movies and merchandising. I'd be interested in some actual analysis or at least conventional wisdom here.

 

[Lensman]

You get so many mixed signals from this crowd...

Don't fret too much about it. People will take different positions on different days based on what they think that day.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wouldn’t a buyout involve money? Not sure there’s a distinction.

Still having trouble with the idea that an MCU would be profitable, i.e., the revenue would be more than all the costs, including a buy-out?

If the themepark market continues to expand - which is NOT a given - then it would be reasonable to expect more money...over time. That is a PREDICTION...by the way. No guarantees on long term popularity. MCU could end up in transformer land in 10 years...we don’t know for sure.

Hahaha. Come back when you're living in reality...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Don't fret too much about it. People will take different positions on different days based on what they think that day.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.”

"Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being. And we are now men, and must accept in the highest mind the same transcendent destiny; and not minors and invalids in a protected corner, not cowards fleeing before a revolution, but guides, redeemers, and benefactors, obeying the Almighty effort, and advancing on Chaos and the Dark."

 

[mikejs78]

Wouldn’t a buyout involve money? Not sure there’s a distinction.

If the themepark market continues to expand - which is NOT a given - then it would be reasonable to expect more money...over time. That is a PREDICTION...by the way. No guarantees on long term popularity. MCU could end up in transformer land in 10 years...we don’t know for sure.

But you have been told...but of course ignore it...that this type of management isn’t worried about the longterm. There is not incentive for them too.

Then why are they currently investing in a multi-year, multi-billion dollar expansion of WDW? Your assertions about them not worrying or doing anything about the long term doesn't gel with the facts on the ground.