• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

News Disney and Fox come to terms -- announcement soon; huge IP acquisition

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
How many streaming services till the market gets saturated?
You might want to check out this thread...

 
Advertisement
I'd love to see some sort of set walk through attraction for Narnia. Not a major attraction, but something to look through movie props and sets. That would be killer.
Again Netflix owns the narnia rights. Not sure about theme park rights tho.

This is an article from when the Netflix deal was announced: https://deadline.com/2018/10/netflix-the-chronicles-of-narnia-tv-series-and-films-eone-1202475272/ there’s an actual “C.S. Lewis Company” so they probably could make a theme park deal if they wanted to, but since they don’t own the film rights anymore it be pointless.
How many streaming services till the market gets saturated?
Hence why Disney wanted this deal to happen. Every company wants their own service. After this merger Disney’s portfolio is arguably the best around.

I saw a trailer for the new Twilight Zone, and it looks amazing. However I’m not paying for CBS’s streaming service. Once Disney gets all of its content exclusive to its platform it will be a must own for most families.
 

AnotherDayAnotherDollar

Well-Known Member
Disney needs to get Fox's horror movies up ASAP. Usually low budged with some big potential at the BO (and sometimes licensing). New Predator sucked and was too expensive comparatively, but the franchise can be salvaged IMO. Here are some random Horror movies from the past couple of years, Universal and especially WBs are the leaders here and are cashing in.

Paramount:
A Quiet Place - Budget 17-21MM, 50MM OW, 188MM Domestic, 341MM WW
Pet Sematary - OW projected at around 28MM

Universal:
Us - Budget 20MM, OW projected at around 60MM
Get Out - Budget 4.5MM, 33 MM OW, 176MM Domestic, 255MM WW
Halloween - Budget 10MM, 76MM OW, 159MM Domestic, 254MM WW

Sony:
Escape Room - Budget 9MM, 18MM OW, 56MM Domestic, 143MM WW
Don't Breathe - Budget 9.9MM, 26MM OW, 89MM Domestic, 157MM WW

Warner:
Annabelle Creation - Budget 15MM, 35MM OW, 102MM Domestic, 306MM WW
It - Budget 35MM, 123MM OW, 327MM Domestic, 700MM WW

Fox:
Predator - Budget 88MM, OW 24MM, 51MM Domestic, 161MM WW



Great read if you haven’t seen it yet!
Maisel managed to raise $525 million — a majority from Merrill Lynch, with additional support from Paramount and Universal in exchange for distribution rights — to make 10 films, capped at a budget of $165 million each with a PG-13 requirement, based on what were then considered “second-tier superheroes, who may not resonate with younger moviegoers.”
Paramount Pictures will market and distribute the movies, for a fee. (Universal Pictures, which made 2003’s “Hulk” by the director Ang Lee but sold back the rights to Marvel after its poor box-office performance, will handle that sequel.)

The financial model seems unusually favorable. Because most of the financing raised by Merrill Lynch (the $465 million revolving credit facility) is insured by Ambac Assurance, Marvel is not liable to repay its senior creditors if the movies tank. The Ambac deal uses the comic characters as collateral and thus requires no capital outlay by Marvel.
That's the first time I've seen this. If that report is correct than the original 525MM, 465MM coming from Merril Lynch and 60MM coming from Universal and Paramount. That helps untangle some of the Hulk rights and confirms it's in perpetuity. Disney bought the distribution rights Paramount owned for 115MM + 9% of the BO gross of Iron Man 3 IIRC. Assuming they paid 30MM it's quite a nice ROI. Disney could (and probably did) offer Universal a similar deal, but they probably said no. Only way those rights are coming back is if Disney buys Comcast out of their 30% of Hulu and gets the Marvel rights thrown into the equation.

Hence why Disney wanted this deal to happen. Every company wants their own service. After this merger Disney’s portfolio is arguably the best around.
Add a little cherry on top if they get Indy 1-4 distribution rights from Paramount and get Star Wars Clone Wars movie distribution rights from WBs if/when they buy the 10% of Hulu from them. They also own international distribution rights to something like Titanic, but not domestic (that's also with Paramount). I would think they'd like to get those if they could as well.
 

Slpy3270

Active Member
Apple just unveiled its new Apple TV service, including their new originals service Apple TV+. Surprisingly, Hulu and ESPN are partners in the new app, meaning that those with Hulu and/or ESPN+ subscriptions can utilize their services on the Apple TV platform, without having to install their dedicated apps.

One has to wonder if Disney plans to put Disney+ on the new Apple TV platform as well.

Add a little cherry on top if they get Indy 1-4 distribution rights from Paramount and get Star Wars Clone Wars movie distribution rights from WBs if/when they buy the 10% of Hulu from them. They also own international distribution rights to something like Titanic, but not domestic (that's also with Paramount). I would think they'd like to get those if they could as well.
None of that is likely. Paramount will never let Indy 1-4 and Titanic leave their hands no matter how much money Disney throws at them, the Clone Wars distribution rights from WB have probably already expired (it's no longer in print on any other platform, physical or digital, besides Netflix, which also streams the whole series) and AT&T has made it clear they only want to offload the Hulu stake to reduce debt load, and Disney can afford it without borrowing more money or making a trade (enough with the trade theories, fans!).
 
Last edited:

Twilight_Roxas

Well-Known Member
Apple just unveiled its new Apple TV service, including their new originals service Apple TV+. Surprisingly, Hulu and ESPN are partners in the new app, meaning that those with Hulu and/or ESPN+ subscriptions can utilize their services on the Apple TV platform, without having to install their dedicated apps.

One has to wonder if Disney plans to put Disney+ on the new Apple TV platform as well.



None of that is likely. Paramount will never let Indy 1-4 and Titanic leave their hands no matter how much money Disney throws at them, the Clone Wars distribution rights from WB have probably already expired (it's no longer in print on any other platform, physical or digital, besides Netflix, which also streams the whole series) and AT&T has made it clear they only want to offload the Hulu stake to reduce debt load, and Disney can afford it without borrowing more money or making a trade (enough with the trade theories, fans!).
That’s because Viacom who owns Paramount is a bully.
 

Slpy3270

Active Member
That’s because Viacom who owns Paramount is a bully.
Not at all. It has everything to do with money. The Indy movies and Titanic are huge cash-cows for Paramount and they will demand a significant premium from Disney for both movies. The reason Paramount still has distribution rights to the Indy movies is because they gave up the rights to future movies and all merchandising rights to Disney in exchange for keeping the rights and financial participation for future movies. Getting Titanic out of Paramount's hands will be next-to-impossible because they foot part of the bill and own part of the copyright for it (Fox sold the North American rights to them during production because they were afraid it would lose a huge amount of money if it flopped) and so Disney would have to take out even more money just to get their portion of the copyright and rights.

Given that they've already spent tens of billions of dollars for assets they're still trying to integrate, everything will be staying put. A few movies are not going to be the draw that gets people to subscribe to their service (and if they are, their service is doomed to fail).
 

Darkprime

Well-Known Member
Just wondering now that the deal has closed could Disney appeal the DOJs condition to sell the RSNs if they struggle to find a buyer or is it too late for that?
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Just wondering now that the deal has closed could Disney appeal the DOJs condition to sell the RSNs if they struggle to find a buyer or is it too late for that?

That would be unlikely. They agreed to the spin off. While technically I believe it is possible, it would likely hurt them in the long run.
 

Darkprime

Well-Known Member
That would be unlikely. They agreed to the spin off. While technically I believe it is possible, it would likely hurt them in the long run.
Thing is I got the impression they never wanted to sell them in the 1st place and only agreed to it to get a timing advantage over Comcast. If Comcast wasn't in play I think Disney would have talked with the DOJ a bit more and maybe got approval with behavioural remedies. Instead. Could Disney request an extension at least? I feel like 90 days just won't be enough I believe Brazil gave them until 2020 to sell the Latin America Networks that's a bit more reasonable.
 
Last edited:

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Thing is I got the impression they never wanted to sell them in the 1st place and only agreed to it to get a timing advantage over Comcast. If Comcast wasn't in play I think Disney would have talked with the DOJ a bit more and maybe got approval with behavioural remedies. Instead. Could Disney request an extension at least? I feel like 90 days just won't be enough I believe Brazil gave them until 2020 to sell the Latin America Networks that's a bit more reasonable.

I think @seascape postulated that they could ‘spin off’ the sports networks instead of out right selling them. Which would give them a path to reabsorbing them again in the future. Honestly I think it is better to sell them and then use the proceeds to wage a war to get Streaming NFL Sunday Ticket.
 

AnotherDayAnotherDollar

Well-Known Member
None of that is likely. Paramount will never let Indy 1-4 and Titanic leave their hands no matter how much money Disney throws at them, the Clone Wars distribution rights from WB have probably already expired (it's no longer in print on any other platform, physical or digital, besides Netflix, which also streams the whole series) and AT&T has made it clear they only want to offload the Hulu stake to reduce debt load, and Disney can afford it without borrowing more money or making a trade (enough with the trade theories, fans!).
I guess technically money for assets is a trade, but other than that I didn't suggest any trade in the post you quoted. Not too long ago people were saying it was impossible for X-Men and Fantastic Four to ever go back to Marvel, but look at it now.

I have seen no indication that the distribution rights for the Clone Wars has expired. Do you have a source besides it's not for sale on physical or digital?

Regarding Disney's wants to buy licensing of their IPs from 3rd parties, Iger was asked that question in a recent financial quarter. He was asked specifically about the Star Wars that Turner got in 2016 that will expire in 2024 and he replied some akin to, "there has been some reports on the matter and I'll say is that we are talking to 3rd parties that have licensed our content to see if we can amend the contract". So yeah, I believe Disney would want to get Clone Wars and the streaming rights from WB if they buy the 10% Hulu stake from them.

Not at all. It has everything to do with money. The Indy movies and Titanic are huge cash-cows for Paramount and they will demand a significant premium from Disney for both movies. The reason Paramount still has distribution rights to the Indy movies is because they gave up the rights to future movies and all merchandising rights to Disney in exchange for keeping the rights and financial participation for future movies. Getting Titanic out of Paramount's hands will be next-to-impossible because they foot part of the bill and own part of the copyright for it (Fox sold the North American rights to them during production because they were afraid it would lose a huge amount of money if it flopped) and so Disney would have to take out even more money just to get their portion of the copyright and rights.

Given that they've already spent tens of billions of dollars for assets they're still trying to integrate, everything will be staying put. A few movies are not going to be the draw that gets people to subscribe to their service (and if they are, their service is doomed to fail).
How much money do you actually think Indy movies and Titanic net Paramount each year? My guess would be 7 digits or low 8 digits between streaming, VOD, DVD/Blu Ray, and cable. Star Wars - a much bigger franchise - netted ~275MM over 8 years at Turner. That was for 10 movies and included newly released theatrical movies. The 4 newer films were estimated to have been accountable for at least 140-160MM of that amount, which would give the rights to the 6 legacy ones about 14-17MM per year. I doubt the 5 aforementioned movies would command even close to this amount. You are free to your opinion and it's valid to say it'll never happen, but they are not huge cash cows IMO. It may never happen, but Disney bought Paramount's Avengers, Cap America, Ironman, and Thor distribution rights in 2010. The deal for the aforementioned movies should be cheaper than the one for the 6 Marvel movies was, which included some that still hadn't seen a theatrical release. If I had to guess it would be around the same amount Disney paid to acquire distribution rights to Ironman, Ironman 2, Thor, and Captain America in 2013 from.......Paramount. But you may be right and it may be something they are not interested in pursuing.

Disney's deal with Paramount in 2013 for Indy was just for marketing and distribution of future movies. Lucas already owned all the merchandise rights to Indy and that transferred over to Disney in the 2012 acquisition.

I do agree that these are not necessities, but nice to have. I never suggested otherwise. People will actually sign up for the service based on original content (i.e. The Mandalorian and Loki).

I think @seascape postulated that they could ‘spin off’ the sports networks instead of out right selling them. Which would give them a path to reabsorbing them again in the future. Honestly I think it is better to sell them and then use the proceeds to wage a war to get Streaming NFL Sunday Ticket.
I concur.
 

capsshield

Active Member
I hope they reboot Indy with a younger actor and plan out a series of movies, or make a new Indy movie using a grandson or daughter of Harrison Fords character and give the franchise a fresh start.

Now that the deal has happened, I can't wait to see and hear what comes next.
Personally I hope they cancel the Dark Phoenix and new mutant movies I feel releasing them will only further damage future X-Men movies. What Fox did to the X-Men is terrible. No understanding at all of who the characters are.

I know they are working on Black Widow, but I feel that movie should go to Disney Plus. My gut feeling is it will be a quick easy low cost way to fill a slot. Black Widow has never been a major player or successful property as a comic. It is a "C" level property at best. I'm positive it will do big box office numbers but I suspect it will fall short of what many of the other franchises have done and the studios expectations. Gut feeling is that this film will help fill the void Capt. America or Iron Man is leaving.

The Eternals does have potential to be huge and can fill the void Thor has left. I think it is a "D" level property, however that give them more freedom to shape it to fit the MCU. The rumored character list introduces a lot of Missing Avengers that could spin off on their own and the movie could help explain the different factions of deities.
If there is a Captain Britain and Black Knight film it will also help fill the Iron Man, Captain America void, and could lead to the Avengers / Defenders war. (no way we will not see this 5-10 years down the road)

Planet of the apes is the one big franchise that fox had that I hope gets a lot of love and a reboot. I would be happy with any platform.
 

Rosso11

Active Member
I hope they reboot Indy with a younger actor and plan out a series of movies, or make a new Indy movie using a grandson or daughter of Harrison Fords character and give the franchise a fresh start.
I’ve always thought they should set it up like The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles where they have an older Indiana Jones, played by Harrison Ford, tell stories of when he is younger with a new actor playing the young Indiana. I think the public would be much more willing to accept a recast in this scenario and make the transition better. The problem with doing the movie based on his kids or grandkids is the time period in my opinion. The closer it gets to modern time the less it will feel like Indiana Jones. It needs to be more in the age of exploration.
 
Top Bottom