News Disney and Fox come to terms -- announcement soon; huge IP acquisition

[Twilight_Roxas]

I think I know what Universal would give them for the those distribution rights.

 

[Rodan75]

It's a pretty straightforward contract, and doesn't really have an "out" unless Universal fails to keep their rides/IPs open per the contract. It has no sunset, and it's a "forever" type deal. Disney doesn't really HAVE any leverage to throw that into the pot when negotiating, unfortunately.

The only way I see them getting it is if Universal simply loses interest and lets its properties languish, or if Disney comes across with a ridiculously huge sum of money and convinces them. The former is less likely than the latter, _if_ Disney wants to run with the MCU stuff in the parks in the East. They might not want to.

Agreed. No one is arguing the original contract....just that all of these negotiations opened a small window where the Marvel rights could have been used as a negotiating tool. But that super small window is closing and like you say the likeliest scenario is that eventually Universal releases the rights on their own to promote their own IP. And even that is super unlikely.

At this moment, if I were Disney I would be far more concerned with how Sony uses Spider-Man family rights,
And would back up that truck of money to them vs Comcast.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Some of us thought Disney would extract the Hulu and Marvel rights, but it turns out extracting the highest premium was the strategy.....

Smart move. Comcast has a debt issue and this increases their debt and the burden of that debt. And it gives Disney the most money.

Money is inherently fungible and the best leverage to buy out any rights they want and to make deals, and they got the most money they could. It was a bargaining position of strength.

 

[Quinnmac000]

Disney does gain one more item to negotiate (I think).... Fox was the distributor for all movies made by Dreamworks Animation created between 2012 and 2017. Disney will continue to take a portion of the revenue generated from cable / streaming for these films even though they are owned now by Universal / Comcast..... Probably not a huge sum relative to Disney's total revenue, but I am thinking something Universal may choose to trade for someday.

Universal already has those back. They got them back December 2017.

Proof:https://www.uphe.com/search-results?search_api_views_fulltext=kung+fu+panda
https://www.uphe.com/search-results?search_api_views_fulltext=dreamworks

 

[seascape]

Universal already has those back. They got them back December 2017.

Proof:https://www.uphe.com/search-results?search_api_views_fulltext=kung+fu+panda
https://www.uphe.com/search-results?search_api_views_fulltext=dreamworks

The fact that Universal sells something does not mean they dont have to pay Disney anything.

 

[Quinnmac000]

The fact that Universal sells something does not mean they dont have to pay Disney anything.

Yeah, not how that works....they owned the properties rights now. Cable, streaming, all of the stuffs.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

"The Simpson's" rights belong to Matt Groening and Klasky Csupo. FOX only has the television distribution rights.

 

[Lafayettecalboy]

Apparently the EU has been speaking frequently with the DOJ and sharing similar responses: https://reorg.com/foxa-dis-ec-speak...s-superintendent-still-reviewing-transaction/

The European Commission is speaking frequently with the DOJ about the Fox/Disney transaction, according to Cecilio Madero, Deputy Director-General for Antitrust at the EC's Competition Directorate-General. The EC is “actively looking into the deal,” Madero told Event Driven, but he could not comment on when the enforcer will complete its review.

Speaking to Event Driven on Sept. 25 at Georgetown University Law Center’s Global Antitrust Enforcement Symposium, Madero said he thinks that the EC’s questions about the competition effects of Fox/Disney “are very similar to the U.S.’s” given that the DOJ and European antitrust agency “are talking very much to each other.” He added that “it’s really rare to have a real divergence.”

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Disney does gain one more item to negotiate (I think).... Fox was the distributor for all movies made by Dreamworks Animation created between 2012 and 2017. Disney will continue to take a portion of the revenue generated from cable / streaming for these films even though they are owned now by Universal / Comcast..... Probably not a huge sum relative to Disney's total revenue, but I am thinking something Universal may choose to trade for someday.

That was true up to a certain point. That's not true anymore and I'm pretty sure Universal owns the distribution rights to physical and VOD for all Dreamwork movies.

"The Simpson's" rights belong to Matt Groening and Klasky Csupo. FOX only has the television distribution rights.

I doubt it. I'm pretty certain 20th CF owns all the rights to Simpsons like they do Avatar.

https://variety.com/2008/more/news/fox-s-simpsons-ride-with-universal-1117985432/

U Parks & Resorts brokered a deal with 20th Century Fox Licensing and Merchandising to land “The Simpsons,” and is spending heavily to hype the ride, hoping the popularity of the characters will attract guests to its venues.

 

[eddie104]

What @MisterPenguin said. They are free to build as much Marvel as they want within the licenses they have the rights to. What they don't have the rights to is the Marvel Cinematic Universe likeness.

The only deal I ever see being made is some further sequestration of a few properties ala Guardians with Universal's gain being access to MCU-likeness. Something like Black Panther/Wakanda for Disney if Universal can build a proper MCU Avengers ride.

Otherwise there is no way Comcast would be motivated to part with it. It costs them peanuts and let's be realistic, Universal isn't the bastion owner of in-house great theme park material. Especially when they are double or triple dipping to come up with enough product for a third theme park.

Frankly I think both companies are squandering the license.

Of course they don't have the catalog of Disney but there are other companies they can look to for more IPs and also some of the stuff they have has not been used in the parks before so I think your reaching on this point.

 

[Quinnmac000]

I doubt it. I'm pretty certain 20th CF owns all the rights to Simpsons like they do Avatar.

https://variety.com/2008/more/news/fox-s-simpsons-ride-with-universal-1117985432/

Fox owns Simpson distribution/production rights whereas Matt Groening/Klapsky Csupo owns character rights. Essentially the same deal JKR has with WB where they can use her product because she approves all usage of characters and how they are used etc but WB can sell promo, distribute, etc.

 

[BrianLo]

Of course they don't have the catalog of Disney but there are other companies they can look to for more IPs and also some of the stuff they have has not been used in the parks before so I think your reaching on this point.

My point was they don’t have enough of their own in house material to sustain the number of parks they are planning. By having to look to other companies to replace Marvel... isn’t that supportive of the point? They don’t have enough in house so they need to look to other companies?

Comcast/Universal need licenses to sustain their parks. Marvel is one of the hottest ones currently and they have access to it for peanuts with aggressive future plans. Why on earth would you give that away for cheap.

 

[Ripken10]

My point was they don’t have enough of their own in house material to sustain the number of parks they are planning. By having to look to other companies to replace Marvel... isn’t that supportive of the point? They don’t have enough in house so they need to look to other companies?

Comcast/Universal need licenses to sustain their parks. Marvel is one of the hottest ones currently and they have access to it for peanuts with aggressive future plans. Why on earth would you give that away for cheap.

Your over estimating the value of the marvel theme park rights. Disney and Comcast make out with current deal, but one could easily argue Disney makes out more with the current deal and why the company has not attempted to change that. One could also argue that disney's current plans could also reduce the value of marvel theme park rights for Comcast as the rest of the world gets Disney owned parks with marvel. Us fans may want to see the sale, but Disney hasn't tried to buy yet and with financial reasoning. Dates escape me, but when was the last time universal built a new marvel ride (not refurb, new build)? How many Harry Potter rides have been built in that time? Currently no plans for new park they are building to have marvel either. If as you say, Comcast sees it as such a valuable property, they aren't taking advantage of it. Or is it that Comcast wants more money for it than its worth and Disney knows that Comcast wants more for it than its worth. One day Comcast will get rid of the rights, who knows how long, the fox deal was a possibility(and still is, for so many of the reasons already given, including the current debt of Comcast - if they don't see return on investment as they thought and get behind on the 5G game they could become a "seller"). I hope when they do sell, it's Disney buying. But as much as I would like marvel in the same house, I just don't see how Disney would feel the theme park rights are worth more than the current deal is.

I still don't see marvel rights being a great immersive scene for a theme park. The rights would be more a marketing strategy in parks. You won't get a setting like Star Wars or pandora. That's why I think Disney hasn't acted on this much. They get money and free marketing from current deal with universal.

 

[BrianLo]

Your over estimating the value of the marvel theme park rights. Disney and Comcast make out with current deal, but one could easily argue Disney makes out more with the current deal and why the company has not attempted to change that. One could also argue that disney's current plans could also reduce the value of marvel theme park rights for Comcast as the rest of the world gets Disney owned parks with marvel. Us fans may want to see the sale, but Disney hasn't tried to buy yet and with financial reasoning. Dates escape me, but when was the last time universal built a new marvel ride (not refurb, new build)? How many Harry Potter rides have been built in that time? Currently no plans for new park they are building to have marvel either. If as you say, Comcast sees it as such a valuable property, they aren't taking advantage of it. Or is it that Comcast wants more money for it than its worth and Disney knows that Comcast wants more for it than its worth. One day Comcast will get rid of the rights, who knows how long, the fox deal was a possibility(and still is, for so many of the reasons already given, including the current debt of Comcast - if they don't see return on investment as they thought and get behind on the 5G game they could become a "seller"). I hope when they do sell, it's Disney buying. But as much as I would like marvel in the same house, I just don't see how Disney would feel the theme park rights are worth more than the current deal is.

I still don't see marvel rights being a great immersive scene for a theme park. The rights would be more a marketing strategy in parks. You won't get a setting like Star Wars or pandora. That's why I think Disney hasn't acted on this much. They get money and free marketing from current deal with universal.

I don't disagree, I just said in a few posts back they are squandering it. Both companies. The license itself probably is not worth a lot, but it is worth a heck of a lot more today than what Comcast has to pay for it.

However, it is currently tied to 100's of millions of dollars of physical product, that's the sticking point. Money would need to be spent to physically free themselves of it at IOA. In a park that currently has two whole lands slated for eventual IP overhaul, are the keen to add a third?

 

[eddie104]

My point was they don’t have enough of their own in house material to sustain the number of parks they are planning. By having to look to other companies to replace Marvel... isn’t that supportive of the point? They don’t have enough in house so they need to look to other companies?

Comcast/Universal need licenses to sustain their parks. Marvel is one of the hottest ones currently and they have access to it for peanuts with aggressive future plans. Why on earth would you give that away for cheap.

Like I said before Uni can look to other studios if they want more properties in their parks. You keep saying not enough material like they used all their IPs in their current parks. New movies come out every year from them making your whole point kind of irrelevant.

 

[BrianLo]

Like I said before Uni can look to other studios if they want more properties in their parks. You keep saying not enough material like they used all their IPs in their current parks. New movies come out every year from them making your whole point kind of irrelevant.

We are saying the exact same thing. Yes they can look to other studios for more properties, that's exactly how they operate. That's my point.

They depend on other studios for properties to round out their park offerings. Comcast does not have enough in-house material for three entire parks (without double or tripping dipping) or essentially making a land around every forgotten or killed Dreamworks franchise. So they look to other studios. Which they can and will continue to do.

Giving away a premium license makes no sense for their model, unless there is a large incentive to do so. Disney can shed the lingering outside licenses (or essentially just buy them outright as is Iger's mantra). Comcast is beholden to other studios, especially since their parks are growing faster than their own in-house material.



To demonstrate the point: Potter, Simpsons, Marvel, Nintendo, Transformers, Men in Black, Seuss, Popeye, Hannah Barbara, Nickelodeon (and many more less active in Orlando) properties are licensed. That represents 10 current and future lands. 10! (Potter x3, Nintendo x3, Marvel, Simpsons, Seuss, Toon Lagoon). Without mentioning all the one off attractions and their likely duplication of the Jurassic franchise into the third park.

Unless you are building a Shark Tales land you are going to quickly realize Comcast is in no position to shed licenses willy-nilly.

 

[eddie104]

We are saying the exact same thing. Yes they can look to other studios for more properties, that's exactly how they operate. That's my point.

They depend on other studios for properties to round out their park offerings. Comcast does not have enough in-house material for three entire parks (without double or tripping dipping) or essentially making a land around every forgotten or killed Dreamworks franchise. So they look to other studios. Which they can and will continue to do.

Giving away a premium license makes no sense for their model, unless there is a large incentive to do so. Disney can shed the lingering outside licenses (or essentially just buy them outright as is Iger's mantra). Comcast is beholden to other studios, especially since their parks are growing faster than their own in-house material.



To demonstrate the point: Potter, Simpsons, Marvel, Nintendo, Transformers, Men in Black, Seuss, Popeye, Hannah Barbara, Nickelodeon (and many more less active in Orlando) properties are licensed. That represents 10 current and future lands. 10! (Potter x3, Nintendo x3, Marvel, Simpsons, Seuss, Toon Lagoon). Without mentioning all the one off attractions and their likely duplication of the Jurassic franchise into the third park.

Unless you are building a Shark Tales land you are going to quickly realize Comcast is in no position to shed licenses willy-nilly.

Thinking about it now Disney was in the same boat as them until the Lucasfilm and most recently the Fox purchase. So in a sense both depend/ed on other studios.

 

[bartholomr4]

Oct 19th is the date set for the EU's decision on the matter, so I believe the author is confused and this is a typo. We haven't heard anywhere else about this.

Oct 19th and the can request a 4 month in depth study.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...id-for-fox-assets-by-october-19-idUSKCN1LX0Z3[/QUOTE]


Disney offers EU concessions over Fox deal
Oct. 15, 2018 6:08 AM ET|By: Yoel Minkoff, SA News Editor

Walt Disney (NYSEIS) has offered concessions in an attempt to allay EU antitrust concerns over its $71.3B bid for Twenty-First Century Fox (NASDAQ:FOXA) entertainment assets, according to the European Commission.

The regulator, which extended its deadline for reviewing the deal to Nov. 6 from Oct. 19, is now expected to seek feedback from customers and rivals before deciding whether to accept Disney's concessions or demand more.

 

[mikejs78]

Thinking about it now Disney was in the same boat as them until the Lucasfilm and most recently the Fox purchase. So in a sense both depend/ed on other studios.

Disney (pre-Iger) had a deep enough catalog of properties to build numerous theme parks around them. Licensing in the past added value, but the licensing was fairly limited to DHS up until Pandora.

With the acquisitions of Muppets, Pixar, Marvel, LucasFilms, and now Fox, Disney's in-house catalog has grown exponentially and can now support any number of lands/rides/etc without ever having to go to outside studios for attractions or immersive lands.

 

[Quinnmac000]

Foreign media (Particularly russian media) is starting to state that China may block Disney-Fox Merger as an effect of the ongoing trade war. Especially with the deadline coming closer, once major multinationals are affected they will lobby for laws/trade to be changed.