Disappointing Changes to 2008 Disney Dining

[BRER STITCH]

Personally, I think this is great news. Now maybe less people will actually get the Dining Plan and therefore we might see less buffets...and lower prices.

Yeah.....THAT will happen real soon!


:ROFLOL: :ROFLOL: :ROFLOL:

It's all about the GREEN!

WDW will change the plan again in a heartbeat if it isn't working out financially to their advantage - and that includes the remote possibility that fewer people will opt for the Dining Plan becasue of the current changes.

I'm not sure their first solution would be to lower prices and cut some character meals!

 

[dxwwf3]

I'm not sure their first solution would be to lower prices and cut some character meals!

Well if there are less butts in the seats then maybe it would be an option. And I think there is no doubt that if less people use the meal plans, then the numbers would go down at the buffets.

 

[2gether]

Dde

For those upset with the Disney Dining Plan changes, I highly recomend the Disney Dining Experience Card. I wont go into details about all its benefites here, but there is plenty of information availalble about it on the forums and directly from Disney. We use it and love it.

I have to agree. We love the Disney Dining Experience and made liberal use of it during the last year. I like the flexibility it gives, and I don't mind paying a smidgeon more :ROFLOL: for the food in order to get it. When you add up the discounts we get through the Disney Visa, Annual Passholder, DVC, and DDE we do pretty good.

Of course, we are blessed to have the opportunity!

 

[Hakunamatata]

I have to agree. We love the Disney Dining Experience and made liberal use of it during the last year. I like the flexibility it gives, and I don't mind paying a smidgeon more :ROFLOL: for the food in order to get it. When you add up the discounts we get through the Disney Visa, Annual Passholder, DVC, and DDE we do pretty good.

Of course, we are blessed to have the opportunity!

Same here on all accounts.

 

[COProgressFan]

It could also be possible that Disney wanted, to some degree, to reduce the number of guests who use the DDP in order to improve ADR availability and flexibility, as a response to sustained guest complaints.

I was thinking the same thing...based on the changes, they certainly must be aware of the fact that fewer people with be on the dining plan, and that may have been one of their intentions all along.

CoP

 

[daliseurat]

The removal of the gratuity was insisted on by the Union.

Remember, the dining plans included in the Magic Your Way Plus Dine, Magic Your Way Premium, and Magic Your Way Platinum are Walt Disney Travel Company (WDTC) components. Restaurants that accept these plans must submit the number of meals served to WDTC each week to be reimbursed a preset amount per meal, regardless of the total food bill.

Once the restaurant is reimbursed, the wait staff is paid their gratuities in the form of a bonus check once per month. The check is based on 18% of the total food bill for each meal served by the waiter during the prior month. Being a bonus check, as per law all taxes are deducted including the higher federal tax percentage required.

With the 2008 plans the Guest pays the gratuity directly to the waiter. If the gratuity is offered in cash, the waiter receives it immediately but has to report the amount to IRS themselves. If the gratuity is paid by credit card or room charge, the waiter receives it as part of their normal weekly paycheck with the amount reported to IRS by the restaurant.

Gratuities are still included at locations that required the Guest to pay for the experience in full at the time of booking. This includes The Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show, Mickey's Backyard BBQ, The Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Review, Cinderella's Royal Table Meals and Epcot Food and Wine Events. These locations pay their Cast normal full (non-tipped) wages.

Why were Appetizers removed from the Magic Your Way Plus Dine Package?

This is a direct result of Guest feed-back. Most Guests on this plan did not order both an appetizer and a desert at every meal, simply choosing one or the other with most choosing the dessert.

For those Guests that wish to include both an appetizer and desert, and for those Guests that wanted 3 meals per day but not include the recreational components included in the Premium Plan, the Deluxe Dine plan was created.

It is calculated that the average Guest will still save up to 30% on meals using the 2008 Magic Your Way Plus Dine Package, and will save up to 40% on meals using the 2008 Magic Your Way Plus Deluxe Dining Package. These cost savings amounts are used on most advertising materials released by Disney for these packages.

This all sounds plausible. Thank you for such a complete explanation. I also think that if we were given a choice between dessert and appetizer, it would be more reasonable. However, doing the math, the new plan is not a real value for my family. It's maybe break even as long as I use the plan to it's fullest. And it's now become an annoyance. I really enjoyed being able to sit at a Table Service restaurant and treat myself to appetizers and desserts I wouldn't normally order and not have to think about the tip. Now, I can live with the loss of the appetizer, but the tip sucks. Now the card is no better than my own credit card. Now I have to think about the tip. And frankly, I'll probably tip LESS. Why? Because I don't automatically tip 18 to 20 percent. My waiter has to EARN it. And I have had some truly lame service at WDW lately. The staff should be GRATEFUL tips were coming their way at 18% automatically. I actually decided not to use my dining plan one night just so I could intentionally give a lousy tip to my lousy waiter. Now when I get great service I tip 20-25%. I enjoy eating out, and I expect good service. From WDW I expect GREAT service. For those who are delivering the great service, I feel sorry for them. They will get less tips and get stiffed by people who don't realize they are doing it. But for those of you phoning it it, don't be surprised if you get way less with this new plan. And you can thank your union for that one.

The best thing to do if you don't like the changes is to:

A. Not use it.
B. Write Disney and complain about it. And be SPECIFIC.

A few years ago the resorts discontinued MAGIC MORNINGS and substitued a vanload of characters who came to your resort and basically kept you there even longer. Well, for ME, this was a blow. My favorite perk at WDW was MAGIC MORNINGS. I almost cancelled my reservations when I found out. But being that I found out two weeks before, that wasn't feasible. I called and complained. They offered me nothing for my inconvenience. I wrote several specific letters complaining. I got 2 calls from the Disney company trying to explain the change in a positive way. I rebuffed them and wrote another letter complaining about their lame attempt to assuage my complaints. I pointed out that when I am happy at WDW I spend more money and make a point of coming back asap and recommending WDW vacations to everyone. When I am unhappy, I spend no money and don't bother recommending WDW. And when asked, I point out all the negatives that annoyed me. Now won't pretend that my little letters had any REAL effect, but a year or so later, MAGIC MORNINGS was back. I have to wonder how many other people had the same complaint as I did. Let your feeling be known to the company. So, once more I will start writing letters. And I won't use the NEW dining plan. And we'll see what happens next year.

 

[TravisMT81]

:zipit:

 

[TOCPE82]

Any chance of me doing the dining plan in the future just went out the window. The DDP was at best a tenuous value before the removal of the tips. Taking away the appetizer, regardless of how much it was used, puts the icing on the cake. You'd think they could have worked out a better arrangement with the servers before resorting to confusing BS like this. As a former cast member I know that most guests are stupid, in a naive sort of way (Disney ignorant, if you will) and many servers will leave empty handed. Terrible call by the union. For every good person and good tipper out there, there are many others who are equally the opposite.

 

[NOLADisneyFan]

The removal of the gratuity was insisted on by the Union.

Remember, the dining plans included in the Magic Your Way Plus Dine, Magic Your Way Premium, and Magic Your Way Platinum are Walt Disney Travel Company (WDTC) components. Restaurants that accept these plans must submit the number of meals served to WDTC each week to be reimbursed a preset amount per meal, regardless of the total food bill.

Once the restaurant is reimbursed, the wait staff is paid their gratuities in the form of a bonus check once per month. The check is based on 18% of the total food bill for each meal served by the waiter during the prior month. Being a bonus check, as per law all taxes are deducted including the higher federal tax percentage required.

With the 2008 plans the Guest pays the gratuity directly to the waiter. If the gratuity is offered in cash, the waiter receives it immediately but has to report the amount to IRS themselves. If the gratuity is paid by credit card or room charge, the waiter receives it as part of their normal weekly paycheck with the amount reported to IRS by the restaurant.

Gratuities are still included at locations that required the Guest to pay for the experience in full at the time of booking. This includes The Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show, Mickey's Backyard BBQ, The Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Review, Cinderella's Royal Table Meals and Epcot Food and Wine Events. These locations pay their Cast normal full (non-tipped) wages.

Yet again, organized labor rears its ugly head...and surprise surprise it rooks the consumer and its members, for whom it is supposed to be looking out.

If I understand your explanation, this is to allow the servers to take the "cash" tips and *wink* report them honsetly *wink* to the IRS. I have friends in the food service business and it is common knowledge that many servers (not all, of course) do not report the cash tips, and cheat the tax man.

Therefore, the union insisted that WDW facilitate fraud by its own employees in not paying their income tax. I am paid a flat salary for my work, and can not break the law by reporting less than I really make.

The union is screwing its members...form over substance...I can tell you right now with that in mind, I will be certain to make sure that on my next trip to WDW, no server will get more than 10% tip from me or my party. No offense servers, but if you have a problem with that...tell your union. It is supposed to represent you...and has done you a great disservice.

The dining plan was supposed to be a convenience for the guests, a "pay one price" and forget about shelling out money at mealtime. Now, it is an inconvenience, and WDW has had to bow down to the sacred cow of unionized labor. It is obvious that in some circumstances labor unions are necessary, but in the food service industry, especially in WDW, it is redundant and only serves to screw things up...Its a shame that things have come to this.

 

[flscooman]

thats good for the servers since they will get more tips this way and not a base tip for the disney dining plan.

It's not a base tip it is 18% of the price of your meal. This is why the server made sure you got the drink/app/entree and dessert.

 

[flscooman]

123

 

[flscooman]

The removal of the gratuity was insisted on by the Union.

Remember, the dining plans included in the Magic Your Way Plus Dine, Magic Your Way Premium, and Magic Your Way Platinum are Walt Disney Travel Company (WDTC) components. Restaurants that accept these plans must submit the number of meals served to WDTC each week to be reimbursed a preset amount per meal, regardless of the total food bill.

Once the restaurant is reimbursed, the wait staff is paid their gratuities in the form of a bonus check once per month. The check is based on 18% of the total food bill for each meal served by the waiter during the prior month. Being a bonus check, as per law all taxes are deducted including the higher federal tax percentage required.

With the 2008 plans the Guest pays the gratuity directly to the waiter. If the gratuity is offered in cash, the waiter receives it immediately but has to report the amount to IRS themselves. If the gratuity is paid by credit card or room charge, the waiter receives it as part of their normal weekly paycheck with the amount reported to IRS by the restaurant.

Gratuities are still included at locations that required the Guest to pay for the experience in full at the time of booking. This includes The Spirit of Aloha Dinner Show, Mickey's Backyard BBQ, The Hoop-Dee-Doo Musical Review, Cinderella's Royal Table Meals and Epcot Food and Wine Events. These locations pay their Cast normal full (non-tipped) wages.

Why were Appetizers removed from the Magic Your Way Plus Dine Package?

This is a direct result of Guest feed-back. Most Guests on this plan did not order both an appetizer and a desert at every meal, simply choosing one or the other with most choosing the dessert.

For those Guests that wish to include both an appetizer and desert, and for those Guests that wanted 3 meals per day but not include the recreational components included in the Premium Plan, the Deluxe Dine plan was created.

It is calculated that the average Guest will still save up to 30% on meals using the 2008 Magic Your Way Plus Dine Package, and will save up to 40% on meals using the 2008 Magic Your Way Plus Deluxe Dining Package. These cost savings amounts are used on most advertising materials released by Disney for these packages.

It's not a bonus check the 18% gratuity is paid weekly on the cm reg check
Servers in the locatins you listed rec a tip wage not reg wage with the exception of the F & W festival kiosks

 

[flscooman]

For those upset with the Disney Dining Plan changes, I highly recomend the Disney Dining Experience Card. I wont go into details about all its benefites here, but there is plenty of information availalble about it on the forums and directly from Disney. We use it and love it.

the dde will now include the 18% gratuity based on the prediscounted price

 

[Bluewaves]

Well I never have and probably never will use the DDP, I usually only have one table service meal the whole week I am Disney. But it does effect me, t means I have to look 60 days out and figure out what night I am doing what and where so I can have my one sit down meal becasue the all the table service resturaunts are packed.

This also effects the day visitors to the parks who can't get a seat at a table service becasue they are so busy, personaly I wish they would have just eliminated the whole, it was a bad idea from the get go and I wish they would bring back my unlimited park hopper tickets, those were the best.

 

[beachclubbasics]

Not purhcasing DDP again.

I, for one, am seriously considering not using DDP when we visit again next year. I started using it in 2005 when we visited and LOVED it. My family only eats out at table service on vacations and the TS part of the plan not only made eating some very good meals affordable, but also allowed us some extra variety and we tried restaurants that we never would have before.

We also tend to go all out with the DDP. For example, on our recent trip (2 weeks ago) all 5 of us got the royal feast at Marrakesh (which was excellent! I don't understand why that restaurant gets such a bum rap). that ran about $260 with tip and tax. We also had a similarly priced meal at the Coral Reef. Would I spend this much without DDP? No way. Let's face it, for the portions you get, CR is not a great value. I can find variety and healthy food at CS establishments now and can probably eat for 1/2 the price of the DDP.

I would have liked to see changes such as a choice of dessert OR appetizer offered on both the TS and CS portions of the DDP. When my family recently ate at Yakitori House I wanted to substitute a green salad for the ginger cake and couldn't. Not that the cake wasn't good, but, that was the only choice you got for desssert there, and I just happen to love salad (especailly with the ginger dressing). When the options for dessert are minimal (as they are at most CS areas besides Sunshine Seasons (the only place at WDW to get a good CS dessert IMHO), I'd rather have the option to get an appetizer type item or nothing at all (and not pay for it...lol)

I would probabaly do Marrakesh again without the DDP, but would only order a single meat meal and would do Ohana, but would skip every other restaurant (especially Coral Reef...that place is definitely NOT worth a $260 bill).

When you figure it out, the average appetizer cost is $6 to $10 at WDW. And the 18% tip would be $3.60 on a $20 entree (without appetizer or dessert). Add a $7 dessert to that and your tip is $4.86. So, if you order $27 worth of food at your TS meal (which I know is low) and continue to tip at 18%, your total cost of the day's plan (adult) is $37.99 +$4.86 +$6.00 for the appetizer that you either had to pay for or no longer will purchase. So, in effect Disney has RAISED the plan price to $48.85 (not including a tip for the appetizer price) per day. If you don't get the appetizer your plan has been raised to $42.85 at a minimum, Therefore the price to the consumer has gone up at a minimum 8% if you tip at 18%. And this also does not include tip on the included non-alcoholic drinks.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that the price should have dropped more than $1.

 

[DisneyJoe]

But it does effect me, t means I have to look 60 days out and figure out what night I am doing what and where so I can have my one sit down meal becasue the all the table service resturaunts are packed.

Its been 180 days now for awhile....

 

[Tweak766]

Disney will be saving a lot more than the 18% for tip and the cost of the appetizer. When we had the dining plan we splurged. We got some of the most expensive items we could. Twin lobster tails isn't cheap. Not only that but servers made getting us to spend more money their primary concern. I had to tell one server about ten times that I couldn't handle dessert. With tip not being included you can expect people to spend half of what they did before. Me and my wife spent $100 on one meal. That's a $20 tip now. There is no way we are doing that now. The servers are going to end up serving less expensive food which will hurt their tips. Disney on the other hand will save a bundle using tips to encourage people to spend less on the plans. The only way this hurts disney is if no one signs up for the plans. The only way I will is if its free in September.

 

[NOLADisneyFan]

Where is everyone getting the prices for the 2008 dining plan (at the different levels). I see the pdf doc on WDW's website indicating what is included, but I don't see any prices.

Thanks!

 

[spaceghost]

When you figure it out, the average appetizer cost is $6 to $10 at WDW. And the 18% tip would be $3.60 on a $20 entrée (without appetizer or dessert). Add a $7 dessert to that and your tip is $4.86. So, if you order $27 worth of food at your TS meal (which I know is low) and continue to tip at 18%, your total cost of the day's plan (adult) is $37.99 +$4.86 +$6.00 for the appetizer that you either had to pay for or no longer will purchase. So, in effect Disney has RAISED the plan price to $48.85 (not including a tip for the appetizer price) per day. If you don't get the appetizer your plan has been raised to $42.85 at a minimum, Therefore the price to the consumer has gone up at a minimum 8% if you tip at 18%. And this also does not include tip on the included non-alcoholic drinks.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that the price should have dropped more than $1.

OK, I'm going to break out the devil's advocate routine here about a couple of things in this thread. First off, the above math only proves that the dining plan was a great deal before, not that it is a bad deal now. To see if it really is a deal or not, let's do some math shall we? Thanks to AllEarsNet.com's menus and prices, here's a rundown of what you could expect to spend at Disney's Hollywood Studios for a day's worth of items covered by the dining plan:

Lunch at the ABC Commissary:
Cuban Sandwich - $6.69
Chocolate Mousse - $3.59
Soda - $2.09

Snack at Min and Bill's Dockside:
Apple Cinnamon Stuffed Dessert Pretzel - $3.79

Dinner at the 50's Primetime Café:
Old Fashioned Pot Roast - $15.79
S'mores - $4.79
Soda - $2.00

Total - $38.74

So, obviously not a huge savings per se, however I deliberately selected items that were not at the top of the pricing scheme. I could have selected Sirloin Steak and a Sundae and pushed my tab for the day up by another $6+. So, you can still save money with the dining plan. I did not include taxes with my figuring as I am not sure what the going sales tax for dining is in FL, nor am I sure if the dining plan price of $37.99 also might get taxed at the time of purchasing the package. Depending on that information, even more money could be potentially saved.

Personally, I feel that depending on how you use it, the dining plan can still definitely save you money. The problem is comparing what you get and how much things cost for 2008 vs. how the plan was priced in the past. To me, the dining plan when we went earlier this year was a HUGE savings. With the appetizer and gratuity, we easily saved $10-15 per person, per day of the trip. It boggled my mind before that people would think that the dining plan was not a good deal for what you got. Now, after using the plan last April, I did have some complaints about the plan, namely that there was too much food. While, it is a bummer that we are getting less for our money than before, an appetizer, entrée, and dessert per person was, quite frankly, more food than I wanted to eat. So, in some ways, I actually like the fact that there will be less food...if that makes any sense.

One other thing about the dining plan - I'm tired of people complaining about the dining plan drastically reducing the availability of walk-up reservations (nothing personal). Yes, I get it. Yes, the dining plan has forced the need for advanced reservations. However, stop to think about what exactly this means was going on pre-DDP... The dining plan in and of itself does not require people to get advanced reservations - it works just fine if you walk in. So, the problem has come from the large influx of guests going to table service restaurants when in the past they did not. Which in turn means that pre-DDP, the table service restaurants were operating somewhat below maximum capacity/efficiency. So, this only goes to show again that the dining plan is/was a great money saver and convenience. I'm not really sure that I understand how anyone can complain that Disney is trying to boost their revenue by increasing attendance at their restaurants...sorry, but I just don't see that as a bad thing. I'm pretty sure that the wait staff that was working the less than capacity restaurants are probably not too unhappy about the increased tips from the increased attendance either. Regardless, the reason that Disney can offer the variety of dining experiences they can is dependent upon people actually eating at those places...

All the above said, my biggest disappointment about the changes is the lack of convenience of not having to keep track of or set aside separate money for tips, appetizers, etc. This was really the selling point of the DDP to me, and this does diminish things some. However, ultimately I think I can deal with that. Before our next trip (next year? ), I'll have to sit down and figure out if we want to do the plan again, but the changes are not as bad as some have made them out to be and they do not make the decision an automatic "no"...

 

[beachclubbasics]

The DDP was a wonderful value before and my family used it to the fuillest. The fact that the tip and appetizer was removed and the plan priced dropped by only $1 is what has turned me off of the plan. They've taken probably $8-$15 per person off of the plan (tip and appetizer) and dropped it by $1. I wonder if this was because they realized they couldn't raise the price of the plam more than $2-3 or so and still have people buy it?

If the plan did away with tip and appetizer, but the price had dropped more I'd consider it again.