Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Kind of difficult to enforce, given its a tip not a service charge.
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Dining plan changes to KILL Free Dining???
- Thread starter JimboJones123
- Start date
The auto-18% is enough. If you want to be generous, it wouldn't be turned down. Chilli's - Bar and Grill.
Yes thats right the 18% for parties of 6 or more is not included in the dining plan. You have to pay it out of pocket. I don't mind doing this at all, just wanted to make sure I didn't offend the waiter /waitress by not giving enough tip. Where is the Chillis? Sharon:wave:
If only...
I for one would be thrilled if the DDP was discontinued in its entirety.
Five years ago... ten years ago... restaurants at WDW had extensive and delicious menus. You could walk into Epcot in the mid 1990s and use a kiosk to make a lunch or dinner reservation - the day you visited the park. You could plan a trip to WDW, therefore, without deciding six months in advance whether you wanted pasta, steak or seafood - or which park you were going to go to each day.
The dining plan kicked all that to the curb. Over the last couple of years, it has become impossible to eat at an actual restaurant without making reservations months in advance. Meanwhile, all the restaurants have shortened and simplified their menus and dishes to the lowest common denominator: what can be mass-produced in huge vats for consumption by hundreds of people in the space of a few hours. It's no longer fine dining.
We were at WDW last week. We had 8 table service meals. 6 of the 8 means were of lower quality than we have ever had before at those particular restaurants. Two of them earned "we will never return" status. At three of them I asked the chefs for "old recipes" that have been removed from the newly dumbed down menus. One chef who brought me the recipes himself lamented the changes the DDP has wrought upon the restaurants, and said he hoped that the 2008 changes to the plan would help improve the current situation, which is very bad. They are removing the appetizer and reducing the size of main entree portions, since many guests complained that the table service was "too much food" to eat.
We dropped $130 eating at Fulton's, and I've had better seafood at Red Lobster for less than half the price. I will never go back to Fulton's... and it used to be good, years ago. And yet even with the bad food it has now, it was swarmed with people vying to use their table service credits, crowded into that tiny lobby, clamoring for tables when they had no advance reservations. Crazy.
Crazier still are the plate-sharers. Since you get an appetizer, a meal, and a dessert with the DDP, we noticed people sharing plates between 2 and sometimes 3 people. I guess this helps you double the number of table service meals you go to. However you're still taking up those seats, and those reservation times, making it that much more crowded for everyone else who legitimately is paying for a seat for every party member... hopefully the removal of the appetizer, and the smaller main entree portions next year, will cut down on this abuse. Personally I think Disney should charge every party member for a table service credit regardless, and cut out that plate sharing entirely.
So yes, I am hopeful that the 2008 changes will help. Making it less food and removing the included tip will probably help cut out the bottom feeders who were abusing the system by sharing plates. Dropping the tip will encourage the servers to actually provide service instead of merely slinging plates at your table. I just hope the servers don't end up getting stiffed by the cheapskates who look upon DDP as a free meal ticket.
I miss the days when fine dining at Disney was actually fine dining. When the dishes were good and the choices were varied. As of now we are planning mostly offsite dining on our next trip, until Disney figures out how to fix this monster they created. According to the chef I spoke with they definitely know it's broken... hopefully they can swing it back on track.
I for one would be thrilled if the DDP was discontinued in its entirety.
Five years ago... ten years ago... restaurants at WDW had extensive and delicious menus. You could walk into Epcot in the mid 1990s and use a kiosk to make a lunch or dinner reservation - the day you visited the park. You could plan a trip to WDW, therefore, without deciding six months in advance whether you wanted pasta, steak or seafood - or which park you were going to go to each day.
The dining plan kicked all that to the curb. Over the last couple of years, it has become impossible to eat at an actual restaurant without making reservations months in advance. Meanwhile, all the restaurants have shortened and simplified their menus and dishes to the lowest common denominator: what can be mass-produced in huge vats for consumption by hundreds of people in the space of a few hours. It's no longer fine dining.
We were at WDW last week. We had 8 table service meals. 6 of the 8 means were of lower quality than we have ever had before at those particular restaurants. Two of them earned "we will never return" status. At three of them I asked the chefs for "old recipes" that have been removed from the newly dumbed down menus. One chef who brought me the recipes himself lamented the changes the DDP has wrought upon the restaurants, and said he hoped that the 2008 changes to the plan would help improve the current situation, which is very bad. They are removing the appetizer and reducing the size of main entree portions, since many guests complained that the table service was "too much food" to eat.
We dropped $130 eating at Fulton's, and I've had better seafood at Red Lobster for less than half the price. I will never go back to Fulton's... and it used to be good, years ago. And yet even with the bad food it has now, it was swarmed with people vying to use their table service credits, crowded into that tiny lobby, clamoring for tables when they had no advance reservations. Crazy.
Crazier still are the plate-sharers. Since you get an appetizer, a meal, and a dessert with the DDP, we noticed people sharing plates between 2 and sometimes 3 people. I guess this helps you double the number of table service meals you go to. However you're still taking up those seats, and those reservation times, making it that much more crowded for everyone else who legitimately is paying for a seat for every party member... hopefully the removal of the appetizer, and the smaller main entree portions next year, will cut down on this abuse. Personally I think Disney should charge every party member for a table service credit regardless, and cut out that plate sharing entirely.
So yes, I am hopeful that the 2008 changes will help. Making it less food and removing the included tip will probably help cut out the bottom feeders who were abusing the system by sharing plates. Dropping the tip will encourage the servers to actually provide service instead of merely slinging plates at your table. I just hope the servers don't end up getting stiffed by the cheapskates who look upon DDP as a free meal ticket.
I miss the days when fine dining at Disney was actually fine dining. When the dishes were good and the choices were varied. As of now we are planning mostly offsite dining on our next trip, until Disney figures out how to fix this monster they created. According to the chef I spoke with they definitely know it's broken... hopefully they can swing it back on track.
AllisonG
New Member
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
As are we, the value of the DP is limited, so I may go back to an AP and the DDE. As well as eating better cheaper food off site. Its sad that I can get a better quality steak at the Longhorn or Lonestar than at the Concorse steak house
I am so happy - I found a link to the 2008 dining plan brochure this morning. About half the World Showcase restaurants are dropping the plan (France, Japan, China, Italy, Mexico). As well, all Downtown Disney restaurants appear to be off the plan except for Captain Jack's.
Perhaps this will help those of us who miss the old dining experience. I loved the extensive menus, the varied choices, the artwork that was Disney Dining 5-10 years ago. We saved extra money so we could afford to eat a handful of really nice meals on property - and they were worth it. I still long for Seafood Pot Pie from Coral Reef, and the to-die-for king crab legs from Captain Jack's - the ones that were sliced open in the kitchen, so all you had to do was lift out the crab. Since the non-plan restaurants will no longer have to push so many through each night, perhaps things will return somewhat to normal for some places.
I still expect to have to obtain reservations 180 days out, but yay for having a few places to choose from without DDP crowds.
I will have to compare the DDE list before our next trip to our reservations, and see how many of our places will take it. But I think primarily we'll go back to the way we used to do Disney: cook some in the Villa, eat a handful of what I hope will be really good meals at non-DDP restaurants, and eat a bit off property. I suspect the only DDP place we'll return to is the Crystal Palace Breakfast, which is still delicious (at least it was last week!).
disneydudette
Well-Known Member
We just returned from our Free Dinning trip... and would have booked the bounceback offer if the plan wasn't changing.
We had amazing service, fantastic quality of food, and an overall amazing expereince that we normally don't get with our Disney trips. In fact, it very much spoiled us.
We made our ADRs and we're prepared. We were seated in less then 5mins everytime, including Le Cellier and Coral Reef, and our food was incredible. Maybe it's because we don't have much to compare it to... but we didn't experience any "complaints" that often flood the boards in regards to the DDP.
I'm not sure how the changes will effect the DDP, but Free Dinning is in fact returning next year... both via UK and Bounceback, and I'm sure the public come early April. I'm waiting to see the reviews and the ease of the plan before booking another September trip. Outside of the promotion, we didn't really see any advantage of September compared to mid-January or early December. We both agreed we'd return though just for the "free food"...
Overalll we greatly enjoyed the DDP and would have paid for it going forward had they left the plan in tact. Guess we're the type of people that Disney marketing loves lol.
We had amazing service, fantastic quality of food, and an overall amazing expereince that we normally don't get with our Disney trips. In fact, it very much spoiled us.
We made our ADRs and we're prepared. We were seated in less then 5mins everytime, including Le Cellier and Coral Reef, and our food was incredible. Maybe it's because we don't have much to compare it to... but we didn't experience any "complaints" that often flood the boards in regards to the DDP.
I'm not sure how the changes will effect the DDP, but Free Dinning is in fact returning next year... both via UK and Bounceback, and I'm sure the public come early April. I'm waiting to see the reviews and the ease of the plan before booking another September trip. Outside of the promotion, we didn't really see any advantage of September compared to mid-January or early December. We both agreed we'd return though just for the "free food"...
Overalll we greatly enjoyed the DDP and would have paid for it going forward had they left the plan in tact. Guess we're the type of people that Disney marketing loves lol.
raven
Well-Known Member
We really enjoyed our recent trip with the free dining plan as well. There were a few drawbacks though:
Limited Menu items - We were told at some places exactly what we would be eating. No other choices were offered for those on the plan.
Too many screaming kids - With nearly every family at WDW enjoying the free dining we couldn't get away from annoying children...well, annoying parents not taking care of their children. Even in the more expensive restaurants we thought we would have had the chance to dine elegantly but it was always ruined by screaming kids.
Waiters/Waitresses under pressure - While we were at Coral Reef our waitress didn't come to our table until 15 minutes after we had been seated. When she got there she said to us "Sorry, pressure pressure. I hate Septembers!" She also suggested a non-alchoholic fruit smoothie to us which we got. When we asked for a refill she said "No. You can't get refills with that drink." She wouldn't let us change it to a soft drink either.
Some food was cold/over cooked - While at Ohana's we experienced some cold meat and overcooked sausage and turkey. It seems that they made a ton of food and was waiting to serve everyone with it even though it was old and cold. At Ohana's you don't ask for it, they just put it on your plate.
All said and done I thought the plan was pretty good for the most part. I don't think I would participate in it if they took away the gratuity part of it since it would make us decide on something cheaper to eat.
On a side note, I remember when Septembers were very peaceful and you didn't have to have an ADR for any place to eat. The longest lines back then was about 10 minutes and that was to catch a bus!
Limited Menu items - We were told at some places exactly what we would be eating. No other choices were offered for those on the plan.
Too many screaming kids - With nearly every family at WDW enjoying the free dining we couldn't get away from annoying children...well, annoying parents not taking care of their children. Even in the more expensive restaurants we thought we would have had the chance to dine elegantly but it was always ruined by screaming kids.
Waiters/Waitresses under pressure - While we were at Coral Reef our waitress didn't come to our table until 15 minutes after we had been seated. When she got there she said to us "Sorry, pressure pressure. I hate Septembers!" She also suggested a non-alchoholic fruit smoothie to us which we got. When we asked for a refill she said "No. You can't get refills with that drink." She wouldn't let us change it to a soft drink either.
Some food was cold/over cooked - While at Ohana's we experienced some cold meat and overcooked sausage and turkey. It seems that they made a ton of food and was waiting to serve everyone with it even though it was old and cold. At Ohana's you don't ask for it, they just put it on your plate.
All said and done I thought the plan was pretty good for the most part. I don't think I would participate in it if they took away the gratuity part of it since it would make us decide on something cheaper to eat.
On a side note, I remember when Septembers were very peaceful and you didn't have to have an ADR for any place to eat. The longest lines back then was about 10 minutes and that was to catch a bus!
I am figuring about a 25.00 tip ,give or take a little bit per ts meal for 4 people,depending on the amount of the bill.So for 10 days,about an extra 250.00 for tips,still don't see that as being a bad deal.Most of our bills were between 125-175 for ts.Without the appetizers(which i will probably share one with my husband-kids really dont finish theirs anyway and are looking for their desert options)they should be a little less.Not to mention it depends on the service and type of setting for the rest.,also what meal.Even with having to tip,its still a sweet deal.Our bill for a family of 4 for counter service meals ran anywhere from 45-65 dollars each day.So thats about 500.00 just for the lunch for the 9 nights we had the ddp for.Then include the TS meals which even if you average them out to 150.00 a day for 9 credits is about 1350(?).So the 250-300 extra for tips or food is still a great deal(at least that is what i am telling my hubby-LOL):animwink:
shoppingnut
Active Member
Not everyone on the DDP is sharing meals. I often share an appetizer, meal and dessert when my friend and I go to disney. This is simply because it is so darn hot down there, that we can't eat so much, but we still want to "taste" things like the appetizers and want to have dessert because after all it's vacation. We are not on the DDP, but sharing meals sometimes, we like doing that so we can taste more things, so now with your plan just so you can get into a restaurant, I have to suffer.
OneLuckyMom
New Member
Don't count on it. Early brochures for the plan last year also did not list many of the World Showcase restauraunts. But they all added later on. I've seen it mentioned somewhere several times that this probably has to do with the timing of contracts, etc.
"making it that much more crowded for everyone else who legitimately is paying for a seat "
I didnt realize the free dining plan and plate sharing was not legitimate-interesting fact-
"We dropped $130 eating at Fulton's, and I've had better seafood at Red Lobster for less than half the price. I will never go back to Fulton's... and it used to be good, years ago. And yet even with the bad food it has now, it was swarmed with people vying to use their table service credits, crowded into that tiny lobby, clamoring for tables when they had no advance reservations. Crazy"
correct me if I am wrong,but fultons is not a participating ddp rest.
I didnt realize the free dining plan and plate sharing was not legitimate-interesting fact-
"We dropped $130 eating at Fulton's, and I've had better seafood at Red Lobster for less than half the price. I will never go back to Fulton's... and it used to be good, years ago. And yet even with the bad food it has now, it was swarmed with people vying to use their table service credits, crowded into that tiny lobby, clamoring for tables when they had no advance reservations. Crazy"
correct me if I am wrong,but fultons is not a participating ddp rest.
Shere_Khan
Well-Known Member
JJ - I have not been on this site long, but I have really enjoyed alot of your initial posts and find them to be very interesting reads. Alot of times I even completely agree with what you are saying. What I don't enjoy however is how anytime someone has a viewpoint that differs from yours you feel the need to rip them apart or make them feel stupid. It's fine to disagree with others, that is the point of bringing up these discussions. If you don't want conflict and differing opinions then don't post on a subject where lots of people disagree.
Like I said before, I like your initial posts and your opinions most of the time coincide with my own. You bring up really great and valid points. I just think you should try to be a little more understanding of other's views if you would like them to be understanding of your own.
I hate me.
Lucky
Well-Known Member
If splitting an entree is allowed, how is it an "abuse"? And how are people splitting an entree "bottom feeders"? Many people, especially women and senior citizens, simply can't eat that much. Why do you think it is so virtuous to either eat 3 times as much as anyone needs, or (otherwise) to have CMs cook, serve and then throw away food you know you won't eat? People split dinners at restaurants outside of WDW all the time. Why is it so evil to do the same thing at WDW? Just how big would portions have to get before you decided it was OK to share a meal? Or are we all obliged to eat as much as the largest, hungriest people?
And why do you assume a guaranteed tip means servers just "sling plates" instead of provide good service? I think they try to do a good job, and usually do, regardless. But if you think guests and CMs are basically lazy or cheaters I suppose you would manage to turn your experience into such a bitter attitude.
very true,we were in and out of most restaurants,but thats us,its how we roll:lol:.We don't look to spend a lot of time in the restaurant,we have lots of stuff to take care of.We did enjoy the restaurants,but it was not our reason for being there.Plus,with the kids,its hard to stay in an eating establishment for a long time with them,I dont like my kids to roam around and ruin another patrons dining experience.So in and out works much better for us.Besides it seems like most of the people complaining about the free ddp or ddp in general are well aware of adrs and dining at wdw,so just make them in advance and go -i didnt wait more than 10 minutes for any of my sitdowns,i knew to make adrs(i knew this from my trip7 years ago so it was no surprise that they would be even more necessary this time around.).
disneydudette
Well-Known Member
Raven, we experienced the complete opposite of what you mentioned! How weird is that? Guess it's all timing and luck of the draw, but our meals this trip were an amazing improvement over our meals in January (Chef Mickeys and the Play n' Vine) which we paid OPP for.
What I found most surprising was MOST people we talked to (which were alot when you have a smoker in the group) we're not on the free dinning promotion. Now I'm sure those with ADRs were on the plan, but I was surprised to see how many people paid OPP for the plan and had booked long before April, or had no idea the promotion was even offered.
As for sharing food... I don't see what the big deal is. Another reason to "dislike" someone for beating you out for an ADR I guess. I don't see why Disney would have a problem with this, especially if the party was on the DDP and had paid "up front". We see sharing all over the place, not just in Disney :veryconfu I don't mind sitting next to a couple/family sharing a meal... heck, I think it's better then sitting in an empty place because people double booked ADRs.
Our one gripe for the new plan is this:
Why would I pay a tip on a $40 bill, that I only physically paid $37 for and a portion of that went to a CS meal and a Snack? Pricing everything out... $11 for a CS meal, $3 for a snack... thats $14, so $23 for a TS meal. Now I still don't mind paying a little extra tip wise for a meal twice the price of what I paid... but that can add up for larger families.
What I found most surprising was MOST people we talked to (which were alot when you have a smoker in the group
) we're not on the free dinning promotion. Now I'm sure those with ADRs were on the plan, but I was surprised to see how many people paid OPP for the plan and had booked long before April, or had no idea the promotion was even offered. As for sharing food... I don't see what the big deal is. Another reason to "dislike" someone for beating you out for an ADR I guess. I don't see why Disney would have a problem with this, especially if the party was on the DDP and had paid "up front". We see sharing all over the place, not just in Disney :veryconfu I don't mind sitting next to a couple/family sharing a meal... heck, I think it's better then sitting in an empty place because people double booked ADRs.
Our one gripe for the new plan is this:
Why would I pay a tip on a $40 bill, that I only physically paid $37 for and a portion of that went to a CS meal and a Snack? Pricing everything out... $11 for a CS meal, $3 for a snack... thats $14, so $23 for a TS meal. Now I still don't mind paying a little extra tip wise for a meal twice the price of what I paid... but that can add up for larger families.