Taylor
Well-Known Member
That is a bunch of billion dollar ifs
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DHS CARS LAND
- Thread starter whylightbulb
- Start date
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
Now you are starting to understand. Disney has created an amazing mouse trap. Disney isn't worried about universal.
If they were, Epcot, AK, and DHS would be building huge attraction right now....they aren't and avatar has been put on hold.
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
I think they are, in the next 6 months we will see expansion in DHS and that the reason behind cutbacks. Disney can't let WDW have attendance be flat for 2 years in row. I hope Disney isn't building because they are waiting for the right attraction. RSR will be coming soon though and maybe we will get lucky with one or two more
new attractions at that park alone
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
Even if they build a major expansion, which they haven't announced yet. It would take years to finaly finish. FLE was announced in 2009 and wont be fully completed until 2014 when the mine train opens.
Disney moves slow, if a major expansion is coming to DHS (and it will someday) they would have to announce plans today and start construction today for it to be ready by 2015.
Nothing in the company suggest they fast track large ideas or keep construction hidden. If they are building, they want to start the hype campaign.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
Your argument about park size is completely moot when both Uni parks are basically the same size as the most visited theme park in the world, MK.
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
You have to remember that while DHS is getting 2 million more guests than IOA, MOST of DHS and DAK's attendees are on greatly reduced admission media (multiday passports). With the number of 7+day passports being sold, a lot of folks are getting into DHS for as little as $29/day. So it is entirely possible that IOA is making more off of admission media than DHS. And as far as in park spending, NOTHING touches IOA.
Also there are strong rumors that Disney's numbers are not only "trending downwards" this year but literally plummeting. As in around 60% occupancy rates instead of the traditional 80+% for most of the Summer Season. IF these numbers are close to true, then I can see why TDOs ears are perking up to a problem. Especially since WDW has nothing else in the pipeline to stop the bleeding. Disney has the FLE about to open this Christmas and it wasn't designed to be an attendance driver, but to increase capacity WITHOUT bringing in more people. And that's it for the forseeable future. Given these numbers, I can see why TDO was rumored to have "flipped out" when Universal announced their 4th hotel which is to be Uni's least expensive and offer family suites. Any ride Universal builds will inevitably bring people to the WDW hotels, but more affordable lodging options located on property at Universal WILL cut into WDWs pocketbook.
And I also fully believe that with the additions of "Transformers: The Ride" and "The Wizarding World of Harry Potter: Diagon Alley" with it's 2 unique E-Tickets, USF will be in the top 10 after these offerings open.
Now, does any of this spell the "end of WDW"? No, that's just silly. But I do believe that Universal Resort Orlando is putting enough pressure on a complacent TDO for Burbank to turn an eye to what is going on in O-town.
Also there are strong rumors that Disney's numbers are not only "trending downwards" this year but literally plummeting. As in around 60% occupancy rates instead of the traditional 80+% for most of the Summer Season. IF these numbers are close to true, then I can see why TDOs ears are perking up to a problem. Especially since WDW has nothing else in the pipeline to stop the bleeding. Disney has the FLE about to open this Christmas and it wasn't designed to be an attendance driver, but to increase capacity WITHOUT bringing in more people. And that's it for the forseeable future. Given these numbers, I can see why TDO was rumored to have "flipped out" when Universal announced their 4th hotel which is to be Uni's least expensive and offer family suites. Any ride Universal builds will inevitably bring people to the WDW hotels, but more affordable lodging options located on property at Universal WILL cut into WDWs pocketbook.
And I also fully believe that with the additions of "Transformers: The Ride" and "The Wizarding World of Harry Potter: Diagon Alley" with it's 2 unique E-Tickets, USF will be in the top 10 after these offerings open.
Now, does any of this spell the "end of WDW"? No, that's just silly. But I do believe that Universal Resort Orlando is putting enough pressure on a complacent TDO for Burbank to turn an eye to what is going on in O-town.
cheezbat
Well-Known Member
You can think its all moot...but look at how much more space they utilize in the MK...winding pathways everywhere, more attractions than any of the other parks, more restrooms, eateries, shops, etc. all of those things give them an advantage in space...not to mention Universal just loves taking up space with their large lagoons.
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
There are no strong rumors disneys is plummeting...where are those numbers to suggest that?
Universal is at 6 million visitors a year, even with the potter expansion and transformers it would take a 50 percent increase in attendance to catch the lowest Disney park DHS at 9,700,000 visitors.
California adventure was number 13 on the parks list...tied with universal Orlando. That is embarrassing considering it is right next to the number two park in the world.
So Disney dropped large bank to change that. Will be interesting to see CA gate in three years. I think Disney is also taking a wait and see approach.
Does large expansion create huge ROI? Does the large FLE create huge ROI? Disney will be patient to the tune of at least a year before they make a massive desision on an expansion to their parks. Hell, they couldn't get Avatar off the ground and it was announced!
Disney will build new rides but I don't think you will hear anything until mine train is built or Iger is gone and the new CEO wants to leave his mark on a park.
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
Maybe not universal hasnt announced potter or transformers, they could wait till after that announcement to steal thunder. Also Rome wasn't built in a day I'd rather they take it slow and do it right so we don't get an expansion that is all sizzle, no steak. I'd put money on an expansion for DHS open by late 2016. If Carsland is used design time is cut in half also manufacturing time will be shorter. If the rumors are true about LMA they want to shut down as soon as possible.
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
In the last stockholders meeting DL and DCA were up DW down 2% in attendance down approximately 5-5.5% over a two year period they don't release occupancy numbers so that's just rumors. But you don't do room promos and free dining if rooms are filled.Universal had a 22% increase over the past 2 years with the addition of a new value hotel,potter 2.0 and transformers they are solidifying both parks and numbers will only go up. If they do expand their kid zone they will also attract a larger demographic
John
Well-Known Member
I totally agree, what some dont understand as has been said numerous times. Uni's goal dosnt have to be #1 in O'town its all about percentages. There is no dispute that disney's numbers are flat and a argument could be made that they are on the down swing. Because of the large attendence numbers they get, a 1% decrease is huge. UNI couldnt care less if they are number 2 or number 13. Its about the almighty dollar and UNI has been raking it in.
This whole wait and see attitude is what has got Disney in this downswing to begin with. They have been resting on their luarals long enough. This has been the attitude of current management and although its been great for their bottom line it has had a negative effect on attendence numbers. As they wait they will see UNI continually cut into the bottom line. No one can be surprised that Avland is cancelled, because of this and the continual disaster at DTD I dont believe nothing TDO says anymore. I will only believe something will be done when I see them open the gates on any new attraction.
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
but has universals numbers increased because they are so low to start with....how much can Magic Kingdom increase when its hitting 17 million visitors?
Hey...I hope Disney throws billions at Florida this year. I'm ready!
CinematicFusion
Well-Known Member
I could see DHS expansion by 2016....but they have to green light this year for that to be true. FLE was announced in 2009 and will have a soft open end of 2012 with full completion in 2014
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
What I don't understand is why Disney would attempt to work with Cameron and not Rowling. You would think that after the strained relationship Disney has with Lucas that this would have been a red flag. He's not called king of the world because he's a nice guy. There are so many proven franchises Disney owns why risk investing in something unproven. Before anyone says its the highest grossing film ever, I agree but adjust star wars or lion king for inflation and they aren't too far behind. I'm like you though you have to show me so I can become a true believer. Blue sky is pretty but at Disney it's prettier when blocked by Disney construction
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
I agree not billions trillions. Universals numbers were respectable for being new to theme parks, anything over a 5% increase is phenomenal. At 17 million visitors they should be able to increase between 5 and 7% percent easily. The problem isnt really park attendance it's across the board decrease in on site stays. The majority of on resort occupancy was down 15-20%. While length of stay was down from an average of 6 to 5 days. That's whats spearheading an expansion. The funny thing is merchandise spending across the board is up
phi2134
Well-Known Member
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I wonder if it was maybe because Rowling didn't want to work with Disney? Maybe she thought that they would have too much control and I could see her not wanting a bastardization of her legacy.
I wonder if it was maybe because Rowling didn't want to work with Disney? Maybe she thought that they would have too much control and I could see her not wanting a bastardization of her legacy.
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
This is a guess not for certain but where all evidence is pointing green light by late oct/ early nov announcement 2 weeks after uni announces potter 2.0
M.rudolf
Well-Known Member
I'd say a little of both but I also think Disney didnt think the profit wasnt worth potential hassle. I agree with her not waiting to tarnish her legacy. But do you think Walt, Lucas or Cameron want that either
John
Well-Known Member
IMO the reason Star Wars hasnt happened is because of the huge paycheck that Disney would have to write to Mr Lucas. I also believe money is the issue with Cameron. Cameron wants to build something that would be incredible and Disney wants something on the "cheap" side. Once again....all about the money. I am considered to be on the Doom and Gloom side of most issues....which I disagree with. To me its just plain as the nose on Mickey's face that this company is driven and its decisions are controlled by the bottom line. No longer is there a balance of guest experience vs cost. SOmeone give me one good explainable reason why nothing has been done with PI? Why SDMC is going to take so long? Its about money.......oh and BTW Disney has recorded record breaking profits. Look at this website, even the mear hint that something as small as TDO exspanding Fantasmic and somekind of new night time show at MK ( which just seems silly to me given the fact they still have a nightime parade that has been running for years) people are going nuts. YAWWWWWWWNNNNNN Fantasmics production has been cut a couple of times....now they are going to add some live additions. OK....Great. But who is going to hop online and book a trip over that? Lets just go with the notion they actually announce something soon. How long will it take them to build it? Thats even given the fact that they might shelve any project after announcement ( see Hyperion Wharf, Avatar) ? It would take three, four or five years to complete? How would anyone feel if they did do something like AVland or CL and open it in stages like FLE? It could take till 2020 before it would be completed.
Mawg
Well-Known Member
I hope the rumors are true that DHS is getting an expansion, Cars Land or something else, anything would be welcome. The lines at Toy Story are crazy and they shouldn’t be any worse than Buzz Light Year Astro blasters if the Park was the right size with enough attractions. This is why I don’t think they should bulldoze Lights Motor Action or the Back lot tour to create the expansion. I know these two attractions don’t get much love on these boards, but they are at least something and they suck in some of the crowds especially those that have never done them before. I think the Back Lot Tour just needs a little love (maybe a lot) and they should find room to create the expansion elsewhere without bulldozing anything. Don’t start bulldozing attractions until the Park is up to an appropriate size that starts to come close to the Magic Kingdom in attraction and shows.