Defunctland deep dive on Fastpass

[UNCgolf]

@marni1971 I'm curious if you've had the time to watch this video (if you're even interested in watching it at all).

If you have, is there anything in here that contradicts anything you know?

 

[flynnibus]

Claiming it was the official/definitive reason for the change would require sourcing

Exactly my point.

An equally strong perspective is it would fill out the proposition of FP+ for guests with limited to no consequence to Disney, so it made sense to finish the swipe and cover all the experiences. I mean.. after all when your big push to the customer is to secure those 'must do' experiences and give them the warm and fuzzies about everything being secured... for many families seeing Cinderella or Mickey Mouse up close is just as big as riding Pandora.

The idea of it being 'needed' by guests is not the sole factor in deciding if it made sense to qualify if FP+ were needed - the marketing of FP+ is far more complete when it covers all the main things people wanted.

The postulate that these were 'needed to make FP+ work' is a misnomer in itself... because we know it didn't save the system. Those kinds of crap FP+ reservations (like parades) weren't used by most... so that capacity went unused and hence didn't really move the needle on customer satisfaction regarding availability.

 

[UNCgolf]

Exactly my point.

An equally strong perspective is it would fill out the proposition of FP+ for guests with limited to no consequence to Disney, so it made sense to finish the swipe and cover all the experiences. I mean.. after all when your big push to the customer is to secure those 'must do' experiences and give them the warm and fuzzies about everything being secured... for many families seeing Cinderella or Mickey Mouse up close is just as big as riding Pandora.

The idea of it being 'needed' by guests is not the sole factor in deciding if it made sense to qualify if FP+ were needed - the marketing of FP+ is far more complete when it covers all the main things people wanted.

The postulate that these were 'needed to make FP+ work' is a misnomer in itself... because we know it didn't save the system. Those kinds of crap FP+ reservations (like parades) weren't used by most... so that capacity went unused and hence didn't really move the needle on customer satisfaction regarding availability.

That's a fair point, but I'm not sure it matters in the context of the video. While it would be nice to know the official reason, I don't think it's really relevant to the overall point he's making -- the simple fact that they did add FP+ to basically everything imaginable is the important thing.

 

[flynnibus]

That's a fair point, but I'm not sure it matters in the context of the video. While it would be nice to know the official reason, I don't think it's really relevant to the overall point he's making -- the simple fact that they did add FP+ to basically everything imaginable is the important thing.

My point was things said in there will now be referenced as 'established' going forward and considered 'well researched and sourced' because some stuff is -- other stuff may not be nearly as such.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

It's a very good video. But, I think the point of adding capacity is completely undersold.

Disney has compounded the problem by destroying old attractions, building new ones in their place and marketing a TON around them. Capacity is lower, awareness is higher and the problem builds. New attractions, ones that can handle massive crowds but aren't E tickets (maybe a MK theatre?), are a big part of the solution. But, Disney can't help itself.

Yes, while I enjoyed Rise I also thought any ride that can't handle a parks capacity so that every paying customer gets a ride if they are willing to wait a few hours seems like a poorly designed ride for a theme park.

 

[UNCgolf]

My point was things said in there will now be referenced as 'established' going forward and considered 'well researched and sourced' because some stuff is -- other stuff may not be nearly as such.

That's fair.

 

[mikejs78]

Yes, while I enjoyed Rise I also thought any ride that can't handle a parks capacity so that every paying customer gets a ride if they are willing to wait a few hours seems like a poorly designed ride for a theme park.

Such an attraction doesn't really exist.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Yes, while I enjoyed Rise I also thought any ride that can't handle a parks capacity so that every paying customer gets a ride if they are willing to wait a few hours seems like a poorly designed ride for a theme park.

I think reliability has to be a factor here as well. While it has been more reliable of late, it is not historically reliable.

Looking at it logically, I'm not sure the best way to add capacity to the attraction. Perhaps another loading area, but someone with more knowledge of the ride's throughput may be able to offer a different insight.

However, Flight of Passage is substantially more logical. The current Lightning Lane / Standby merge area where guests are sent up or down the ramp is a prime spot for another theater or two. If you have another ramp running perpendicular to those it seems conceivable that a 5th and a 6th theater could be added in that space. The exit from those theaters would be a bit of a walk, but not worse than Soarin' or Indiana Jones Adventure.

 

[Parker in NYC]

My point was things said in there will now be referenced as 'established' going forward and considered 'well researched and sourced' because some stuff is -- other stuff may not be nearly as such.

As opposed to everything else on the internet?

 

[Nubs70]

They only figured out the single.rider.concept in 97??

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Such an attraction doesn't really exist.

Course it does, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, plenty of good rides that can handle high volumes.

 

[lentesta]

I had to FF due to limited time and will watch it in full later. Did he say anything about how he handled the distribution of the various archetypes?

It's in the code. I think it's mentioned in the video.

 

[lentesta]

A great example of the kinds of statements in this piece that are 'fast and loose'.

Adding FP capacity through meet & greets and parades is specifically called out on page 17 of the FP+ pitch deck that the board of directors saw. There's nothing fast and loose about it. And I know Kevin has the entire document.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

My point was things said in there will now be referenced as 'established' going forward and considered 'well researched and sourced' because some stuff is -- other stuff may not be nearly as such.

Defunctland has long had a problem with playing fast and loose with facts and sourcing and misrepresenting history (E.P.C.O.T., Euro Disneyland and Disney’s America) to fit a certain narrative.

 

[DomVF07]

Thank you @lentesta for posting the link! While long it was in-depth and eye opening. $1 billion dollar “failure” let’s turn the monster into the old saying “putting perfume on a pig” to make it work.
Cheers!

 

[rio]

Course it does, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, plenty of good rides that can handle high volumes.

He's still right. At 3200 guest/hour, 38,400 people can ride those rides in a 12 hour day. Despite this huge number, the MK reguarly has greater than 40k and 50k guests arriving in a particular day (according to TEA, that was 57,433 guests per day in 2019). The shear quantity of people now visiting the MK means even a high capacity ride like HM or Pirates is no longer guaranteed to have every single person in the park experience the attraction.

That still means the answer is to build more, but highlights just how crowded the Disney Parks have become over the past 2 decades.

 

[flynnibus]

Adding FP capacity through meet & greets and parades is specifically called out on page 17 of the FP+ pitch deck that the board of directors saw. There's nothing fast and loose about it. And I know Kevin has the entire document.

View attachment 602457

Ok, thx for that len. but back to my point… is that cited in the video ? No… but he cites youtubers for operational details etc.

like i said, kinda fast and loose. The line between researched and interpreted is vague and fluid.

maybe would have been better served by splitting out his timeline/iteration coverage from his queuing discussion, disney decisions and sim coverage. So he wiuld have been less pressed for time

 

[mikejs78]

He's still right. At 3200 guest/hour, 38,400 people can ride those rides in a 12 hour day. Despite this huge number, the MK reguarly has greater than 40k and 50k guests arriving in a particular day (according to TEA, that was 57,433 guests per day in 2019). The shear quantity of people now visiting the MK means even a high capacity ride like HM or Pirates is no longer guaranteed to have every single person in the park experience the attraction.

That still means the answer is to build more, but highlights just how crowded the Disney Parks have become over the past 2 decades.

Exactly. I'm all for more capacity, but to get an attraction that would be able to handle everyone on an average day at MK (in 2019), it would need an hourly capacity of about 4.786 people per hour, which, I don't think, any Disney attraction has ever hit.

Now, that's not an excuse for Disney not adding more capacity via more attractions, but you can't expect every person to be able to ride a single ride in any given day.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Exactly. I'm all for more capacity, but to get an attraction that would be able to handle everyone on an average day at MK (in 2019), it would need an hourly capacity of about 4.786 people per hour, which, I don't think, any Disney attraction has ever hit.

Now, that's not an excuse for Disney not adding more capacity via more attractions, but you can't expect every person to be able to ride a single ride in any given day.

True, but can we at least get half of them riding it? I am savy with the phone but I think it sucks that a grandmom is now most likely out of luck if she isn't good on an app.

 

[rio]

Exactly. I'm all for more capacity, but to get an attraction that would be able to handle everyone on an average day at MK (in 2019), it would need an hourly capacity of about 4.786 people per hour, which, I don't think, any Disney attraction has ever hit.

Now, that's not an excuse for Disney not adding more capacity via more attractions, but you can't expect every person to be able to ride a single ride in any given day.

According to the Disney Food Blog, the Peoplemover has a capacity of 4600 guests per hour, which is extremely close. I'm not sure if we're allowed to link other sites though

edit: was wrong-@marni1971’s got the answer on the next page. PM can NOT nearly allow every single guest visiting MK to ride it on an average day.