Death at Icon Park accident

Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Vegas Disney Fan said:
This also creates a problem because sensors need to be easily replaceable by maintenance to ensure the ride stays safe and operable.

I won’t argue it couldn’t be built better but this is 99% a maintenance issue, had they followed the manual this never would have happened.
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A maintenance issue, if regular maintenance included regular inspection of sensor adjustments to confirm they were not tampered with (like this one obviously was).

That brings up another question. At what frequency is (the regular inspection of sensor adjustments to confirm they were not tampered with) is done?
 
Bullseye1967

Bullseye1967

Is that who I am?
Premium Member
Disney Analyst said:
This had to be intentional, with an outcome the operator did not expect.

They are on record with media stating that there was no weight limit, there was only one seat modified, and this is the same seat the bigger guest was placed who then very sadly was killed.
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I wonder if they can get an employee to say this is where management told us to put larger riders.
 
Gringrinngghost

Gringrinngghost

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
A maintenance issue, if regular maintenance included regular inspection of sensor adjustments to confirm they were not tampered with (like this one obviously was).

That brings up another question. At what frequency is (the regular inspection of sensor adjustments to confirm they were not tampered with) is done?
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It would be daily. The state would come in annually.
 
N

natatomic

Well-Known Member
Well, looks like I owe an apology to the manufacturer, because I was 100% certain that this had to be a manufacturing error. However, in my defense, the reality of the situation is so unbelievably insane, reckless, brazen, and irresponsible, I don't think any rational person could have ever predicted that this was a likely scenario. That some "random*" person decided a seat needed the MAIN SAFETY FEATURE to be adjusted without considering that maybe - JUST MAYBE - the ride manufacturer made the limitations of the harness closure X inches for a freaking REASON? I mean, I genuinely assumed the manufacturer must have flat out skipped very basic physics calculations which led to this tragedy. And yet that still doesn't match the level of idiocy of what actually happened.

*And when I say "random" person, I don't mean just some random dude off the street. But this surely wasn't a call made by the manufacturer after the fact (or at least, I don't think so...but good Lord, look how wrong I was before, so who the heck knows at this point), but was probably made by who....some mid-management type wanting to be more "accommodating?" The ride owner? Maybe ICON park if they were getting complaints at guest services from bigger guests about not being able to ride anything? Probably no one involved in the manufacturing itself since this seems to be an adjustment that was made later after opening. (And this DOES explain a question I asked a few pages back about why this didn't sooner after the ride opened, given that there are plenty of people in the world that are this kid's size. I assume the adjustment was probably made not too long before this accident happened). But even so...those people who made this decision probably weren't the ones who would know HOW to adjust the harness, right? Did they seriously get some maintenance worker to adjust it for them? Surely the maintenance worker would have thought tampering with the main safety component of the seat was a HORRIBLE idea. Did he just do what he was told because he didn't care? He didn't know any better? Was he threatened to do so lest he be fired?

Like...it is truly mind boggling that THIS is how this happened. Seriously....someone is going to jail for this.
 
S

some other guy

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Wow! That reads like SlongShot Group is blaming their bosses in Australia.
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thf I can see why they might buckle under pressure from Emus
natatomic said:
Well, looks like I owe an apology to the manufacturer, because I was 100% certain that this had to be a manufacturing error. However, in my defense, the reality of the situation is so unbelievably insane, reckless, brazen, and irresponsible, I don't think any rational person could have ever predicted that this was a likely scenario. That some "random*" person decided a seat needed the MAIN SAFETY FEATURE to be adjusted without considering that maybe - JUST MAYBE - the ride manufacturer made the limitations of the harness closure X inches for a freaking REASON? I mean, I genuinely assumed the manufacturer must have flat out skipped very basic physics calculations which led to this tragedy. And yet that still doesn't match the level of idiocy of what actually happened.

*And when I say "random" person, I don't mean just some random dude off the street. But this surely wasn't a call made by the manufacturer after the fact (or at least, I don't think so...but good Lord, look how wrong I was before, so who the heck knows at this point), but was probably made by who....some mid-management type wanting to be more "accommodating?" The ride owner? Maybe ICON park if they were getting complaints at guest services from bigger guests about not being able to ride anything? Probably no one involved in the manufacturing itself since this seems to be an adjustment that was made later after opening. (And this DOES explain a question I asked a few pages back about why this didn't sooner after the ride opened, given that there are plenty of people in the world that are this kid's size. I assume the adjustment was probably made not too long before this accident happened). But even so...those people who made this decision probably weren't the ones who would know HOW to adjust the harness, right? Did they seriously get some maintenance worker to adjust it for them? Surely the maintenance worker would have thought tampering with the main safety component of the seat was a HORRIBLE idea. Did he just do what he was told because he didn't care? He didn't know any better? Was he threatened to do so lest he be fired?

Like...it is truly mind boggling that THIS is how this happened. Seriously....someone is going to jail for this.
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yeah I was def thinking "lol they got an ambulance chaser like crump" but seriously if they jimmied it open with a thing to make it fit amazingly huge people then yeah, this hole deserves a dozen Morgans on them
 
Patcheslee

Patcheslee

Well-Known Member
natatomic said:
Well, looks like I owe an apology to the manufacturer, because I was 100% certain that this had to be a manufacturing error. However, in my defense, the reality of the situation is so unbelievably insane, reckless, brazen, and irresponsible, I don't think any rational person could have ever predicted that this was a likely scenario. That some "random*" person decided a seat needed the MAIN SAFETY FEATURE to be adjusted without considering that maybe - JUST MAYBE - the ride manufacturer made the limitations of the harness closure X inches for a freaking REASON? I mean, I genuinely assumed the manufacturer must have flat out skipped very basic physics calculations which led to this tragedy. And yet that still doesn't match the level of idiocy of what actually happened.

*And when I say "random" person, I don't mean just some random dude off the street. But this surely wasn't a call made by the manufacturer after the fact (or at least, I don't think so...but good Lord, look how wrong I was before, so who the heck knows at this point), but was probably made by who....some mid-management type wanting to be more "accommodating?" The ride owner? Maybe ICON park if they were getting complaints at guest services from bigger guests about not being able to ride anything? Probably no one involved in the manufacturing itself since this seems to be an adjustment that was made later after opening. (And this DOES explain a question I asked a few pages back about why this didn't sooner after the ride opened, given that there are plenty of people in the world that are this kid's size. I assume the adjustment was probably made not too long before this accident happened). But even so...those people who made this decision probably weren't the ones who would know HOW to adjust the harness, right? Did they seriously get some maintenance worker to adjust it for them? Surely the maintenance worker would have thought tampering with the main safety component of the seat was a HORRIBLE idea. Did he just do what he was told because he didn't care? He didn't know any better? Was he threatened to do so lest he be fired?

Like...it is truly mind boggling that THIS is how this happened. Seriously....someone is going to jail for this.
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The maintenance and operating manual is online. Limit switches on the harness should be check daily, and the cylinders checked every 15 days using the supplied device.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
natatomic said:
Well, looks like I owe an apology to the manufacturer, because I was 100% certain that this had to be a manufacturing error. However, in my defense, the reality of the situation is so unbelievably insane, reckless, brazen, and irresponsible, I don't think any rational person could have ever predicted that this was a likely scenario. That some "random*" person decided a seat needed the MAIN SAFETY FEATURE to be adjusted without considering that maybe - JUST MAYBE - the ride manufacturer made the limitations of the harness closure X inches for a freaking REASON? I mean, I genuinely assumed the manufacturer must have flat out skipped very basic physics calculations which led to this tragedy. And yet that still doesn't match the level of idiocy of what actually happened.

*And when I say "random" person, I don't mean just some random dude off the street. But this surely wasn't a call made by the manufacturer after the fact (or at least, I don't think so...but good Lord, look how wrong I was before, so who the heck knows at this point), but was probably made by who....some mid-management type wanting to be more "accommodating?" The ride owner? Maybe ICON park if they were getting complaints at guest services from bigger guests about not being able to ride anything? Probably no one involved in the manufacturing itself since this seems to be an adjustment that was made later after opening. (And this DOES explain a question I asked a few pages back about why this didn't sooner after the ride opened, given that there are plenty of people in the world that are this kid's size. I assume the adjustment was probably made not too long before this accident happened). But even so...those people who made this decision probably weren't the ones who would know HOW to adjust the harness, right? Did they seriously get some maintenance worker to adjust it for them? Surely the maintenance worker would have thought tampering with the main safety component of the seat was a HORRIBLE idea. Did he just do what he was told because he didn't care? He didn't know any better? Was he threatened to do so lest he be fired?

Like...it is truly mind boggling that THIS is how this happened. Seriously....someone is going to jail for this.
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In this case the manufacturer, ride owner and ride operator are the same. SlingShot Group, the ride owner and operator, is owned by Funtime Group, the manufacturer.
 
L

lewisc

Well-Known Member
natatomic said:
because I was 100% certain that this had to be a manufacturing error. However, in my defense, the reality of the situation is so unbelievably insane, reckless, brazen, and irresponsible, I don't think any rational person could have ever predicted that this was a likely scenario. That some "random*" person decided a seat needed the MAIN SAFETY FEATURE to be adjusted without considering that maybe - JUST MAYBE - the ride manufacturer made the limitations of the harness closure X inches for a freaking REASON? I mean, I genuinely assumed the manufacturer must have flat out skipped very basic physics calculations which led to this tragedy. And yet that still doesn't match the level of idiocy of what actually happened.
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I understand your initial logic. It sort of made sense at the time BUT think about it. Is there any way the mfg would have designed something with such a gap? Is it likely there was a part failure which allowed the opening but also gave a sensor good reading after a few months of passing inspection? A Rube Goldberg solution to accommodate large guests actually makes the most sense, for a new attraction.

Reminds me a little of the news stories on the moving carnival rides. Employees assembling them in new locations frequently skip bolts. Kind of like assembling an Ikea bookcase and deciding you don't need that many nails to attach the back panel.
 
N

natatomic

Well-Known Member
lewisc said:
I understand your initial logic. It sort of made sense at the time BUT think about it. Is there any way the mfg would have designed something with such a gap? Is it likely there was a part failure which allowed the opening but also gave a sensor good reading after a few months of passing inspection? A Rube Goldberg solution to accommodate large guests actually makes the most sense, for a new attraction.

Reminds me a little of the news stories on the moving carnival rides. Employees assembling them in new locations frequently skip bolts. Kind of like assembling an Ikea bookcase and deciding you don't need that many nails to attach the back panel.
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Oh I admit my initial theory - blatant manufacturing negligence - was crazy. But rides these days have so many foolproof failsafes in place, I figured it would be impossible for a safety feature to fail in a way that allowed the ride to still operate. For instance, if a coaster loses power, the brakes close, because it takes power to keep them open. If a sensor on a coaster misfires or a bee flys in front of it, the ride e-stops. Typically, if any little thing is detected, a ride shuts down. I have so much faith in the fail safes on any modern attraction, I genuinely believed it impossible for a ride cycle on this ride to be activated if anything was amiss. So yes, it was definitely crazy to me to think that a ride manufacturer would some how basic physics variables (the tilt with that much gap between the harness and seat). However, we’ve all heard of executives or other higher-ups cutting corners in all sorts of ways that inevitably lead to imperative safety features being missed, skipped, or flat out ignored. I was putting my money on this tragedy being a case of that.

So yeah, I get that it was a crazy theory. But - to me - it still made more sense than some G-D idiot manually adjusting the sensor tolerance to make the harness have a larger gap. It’s such a brain dead thought process….I still can’t wrap my head around it.
 
S

some other guy

Well-Known Member
looking at
1650394995727.png
more I'm really amazed this hadn't killed somebody already
I'm very curious when the modification was made.
 
Tom Morrow

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
I wonder if we'll ever find out who made the adjustment. I think it can be ruled out that the ride attendants at the scene did anything wrong.

edited for clarity
 
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L

lewisc

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
I wonder if we'll ever find out who made the adjustment. I think it can be ruled out that the ride attendants at the scene didn't do anything wrong.
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Maybe if there is a criminal trial.

Maybe if it goes to a civil trial. Maybe not if the case settles.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Tom Morrow said:
I wonder if we'll ever find out who made the adjustment. I think it can be ruled out that the ride attendants at the scene didn't do anything wrong.
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lewisc said:
Maybe if there is a criminal trial.

Maybe if it goes to a civil trial. Maybe not if the case settles.
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I believe the Department of Agriculture is still investigating. The report that was published was just a preliminary report.
 
S

some other guy

Well-Known Member
lewisc said:
Maybe if there is a criminal trial.

Maybe if it goes to a civil trial. Maybe not if the case settles.
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yeah if it hits the courts (and it can clearly be determined who gave the order to mod the seat / who modded the seat) then it'll probably come out regardless of how the judgement goes
Florida is usually remarkably transparent about court matters, that's part of where the legends of Florida Man comes from, although we certainly do our fair share of the heavy lifting, the way that arrests and court proceedings are public matter, it amplifies it a lot.

if they settle out of court then very likely not
you don't settle out of court to make more noise
now that I think about it if I was the operation I'd look at my options to find a specific person or two that I could throw under the bus (or who may legit have been solely responsible for an unauthorized mod) and make it so they take the fall at trial / settlement, if that ends up the circumstances _maybe_ a name or two gets the blame
 

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