Death at Driving Experience

[GrumpyFan]

Why do experiences like these in the US make you sign a 'waiver'? From what I understand (and the legal experts can chime in) you cannot sign your civil liberties away, which includes legal rights. Therefore, making such agreements useless in the event that the facility if found at fault, and still allows a victim to seek damages.

I understand that is not the case here, just a general question from this topic.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've had to sign something like this before when skydiving and it's called a "Liability Waiver". These are typically used to protect a business engaging in dangerous activities such as this from any liability or lawsuit. Basically, it's a legal statement where you accept responsibility for whatever happens, whether you're injured or even die. However, it's not an ironclad guarantee that will protect the business in case of serious carelessness or recklessness ("gross negligence").

I looked around, but couldn't find the Petty or Exotic Driving experience liability forms online, but here's a very basic example:

This agreement releases {Organization} from all liability relating to injuries that may occur {during activity, on location, etc.}. By signing this agreement, I agree to hold {Organization} entirely free from any liability, including financial responsibility for injuries incurred, regardless of whether injuries are caused by negligence.

I also acknowledge the risks involved in {type of activity}. These include but are not limited to {list risks}. I swear that I am participating voluntarily, and that all risks have been made clear to me. Additionally, I do not have any conditions that will increase my likelihood of experiencing injuries while engaging in this activity.

By signing below I forfeit all right to bring a suit against {Organization} for any reason. In return, I will receive {participation in activity}. I will also make every effort to obey safety precautions as listed in writing and as explained to me verbally. I will ask for clarification when needed.

I, _____________, fully understand and agree to the above terms.
​

A more comprehensive liability form can be found here: https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Women's Program Events/13compulsoryworkshops/waiver_adult.pdf

 

[NelsonRD]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've had to sign something like this before when skydiving and it's called a "Liability Waiver". These are typically used to protect a business engaging in dangerous activities such as this from any liability or lawsuit. Basically, it's a legal statement where you accept responsibility for whatever happens, whether you're injured or even die. However, it's not an ironclad guarantee that will protect the business in case of serious carelessness or recklessness ("gross negligence").

I looked around, but couldn't find the Petty or Exotic Driving experience liability forms online, but here's a very basic example:

This agreement releases {Organization} from all liability relating to injuries that may occur {during activity, on location, etc.}. By signing this agreement, I agree to hold {Organization} entirely free from any liability, including financial responsibility for injuries incurred, regardless of whether injuries are caused by negligence.

I also acknowledge the risks involved in {type of activity}. These include but are not limited to {list risks}. I swear that I am participating voluntarily, and that all risks have been made clear to me. Additionally, I do not have any conditions that will increase my likelihood of experiencing injuries while engaging in this activity.

By signing below I forfeit all right to bring a suit against {Organization} for any reason. In return, I will receive {participation in activity}. I will also make every effort to obey safety precautions as listed in writing and as explained to me verbally. I will ask for clarification when needed.

I, _____________, fully understand and agree to the above terms.
​

A more comprehensive liability form can be found here: https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Women's Program Events/13compulsoryworkshops/waiver_adult.pdf

I understand, but does it hold any weight? If I go sky diving and the parashoot fails, no matter what I signed, they are liable.

The only explanation I can come up with is a way to enforce there is risk involved with the activity being taken, but the question remains, are they essentially useless?

 

[GrumpyFan]

I understand, but does it hold any weight? If I go sky diving and the parashoot fails, no matter what I signed, they are liable.

The only explanation I can come up with is a way to enforce there is risk involved with the activity being taken, but the question remains, are they essentially useless?

That's an extremely loaded question that's probably best left for legal minds smarter than me (or Google) and probably not suited for this discussion.

 

[ChrisFL]

For waivers, I could also see it as you do something stupid and get killed, they can't be held responsible...like taking apart your parachute harness or something.

 

[unkadug]

For waivers, I could also see it as you do something stupid and get killed, they can't be held responsible...like taking apart your parachute harness or something.

Or driving backwards on a track not designed for such.

 

[DisneyCane]

Why do experiences like these in the US make you sign a 'waiver'? From what I understand (and the legal experts can chime in) you cannot sign your civil liberties away, which includes legal rights. Therefore, making such agreements useless in the event that the facility if found at fault, and still allows a victim to seek damages.

I understand that is not the case here, just a general question from this topic.

How are you signing away your civil liberties? You are entering into a contract agreement. If the company does something negligent, a court won't absolve them of liability. But, if you are injured during the normal course of the activity, the company will not be liable.

Take a ski resort for example. If you ski into a tree and are seriously injured, you can't hold them liable. If a chair falls off the lift onto your head and injures you, then they will be liable. WRT the driving experience types stuff. If you crash the car and get hurt they are generally not going to be liable. If the breaks failed, then they are no matter what you signed.

In this particular case, they probably will be liable. First of all, it was an employee that was killed. An employee can't be required to sign an injury waiver. That would violate all kinds of OSHA policies, I'd guess. Second, it may turn out that running the course backwards was a negligent act.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Or driving backwards on a track not designed for such.

Actually, that might be considered "gross negligence" on the part of the operator/owner of this experience. It wasn't the driver's fault it was Disney/Petty. It wasn't necessarily going the wrong way that was the danger, so much as the fact that they failed to make this as safe as possible for the participant and the employee, which could override any such waiver signed by the participants. However, that will likely be up to a court to decide, unless they settle with the families.

 

[NelsonRD]

How are you signing away your civil liberties? You are entering into a contract agreement. If the company does something negligent, a court won't absolve them of liability. But, if you are injured during the normal course of the activity, the company will not be liable.

Take a ski resort for example. If you ski into a tree and are seriously injured, you can't hold them liable. If a chair falls off the lift onto your head and injures you, then they will be liable. WRT the driving experience types stuff. If you crash the car and get hurt they are generally not going to be liable. If the breaks failed, then they are no matter what you signed.

In this particular case, they probably will be liable. First of all, it was an employee that was killed. An employee can't be required to sign an injury waiver. That would violate all kinds of OSHA policies, I'd guess. Second, it may turn out that running the course backwards was a negligent act.

You opening paragraph defines how every situation is handled with or without a waiver. Therefore, I am just suggesting that these waivers are useless, and I am asking the opinion of other legal experts in the field if this is accurate. Your ski example is just as redundant because I do not sign a waiver to ski. I do not sign a waiver to enter the theme parks. I do not sign a waiver to drive a car on public roads. And, if I sign a waiver to drive at a driving experience, and as a result of something out of my control injures me, I can still seek damages (like you said with bad brakes). So why are these even in place to begin with? The only possible explanation I can currently think of is to enforce to the participant that there is risk involved with the activity they are performing. But it cannot be used to release the vendor from all liability, and nothing can be signed preventing you to from seeking damages, ie, lawsuits.

 

[DisneyCane]

You opening paragraph defines how every situation is handled with or without a waiver. Therefore, I am just suggesting that these waivers are useless, and I am asking the opinion of other legal experts in the field if this is accurate. So why are these even in place to begin with? But it cannot be used to release the vendor from all liability, and nothing can be signed preventing you to from seeking damages, ie, lawsuits.

Because without the waiver, if you do the driving experience and crash a perfectly functioning car into a properly designed wall and are injured, you can sue and say you weren't aware of the risk of that injury occurring during the activity. With the waiver, you will have to show negligence on their part.

 

[VulcanCafe]

Your ski example is just as redundant because I do not sign a waiver to ski. I do not sign a waiver to enter the theme parks.

Not quite true, you don't necessarily have to sign it for it to be valid. The act of purchasing a ticket generally means you agree to the terms of entry, sometimes printed on the ticket itself. Notice that the back of your lift ticket and oftentimes your theme park/sporting event ticket is loaded with legal warnings ('you may be hit by flying baseballs/hockey pucks/debris'. Sometimes these are ruled valid, other times too broad. Either way, you have received warning that your activities may be hazardous to your health. (I seem to remember something about lawsuits requiring Florida jurisdiction at WDW)

 

[NelsonRD]

Because without the waiver, if you do the driving experience and crash a perfectly functioning car into a properly designed wall and are injured, you can sue and say you weren't aware of the risk of that injury occurring during the activity. With the waiver, you will have to show negligence on their part.

Right so these replies are about the warning, so it is more informative, opposed to legal binding. Just like the warning signs on Mission Space. I do not sign a waiver, but we are informed of risk. My point is, no matter what we sign, a company cannot be absolved by simply having a waiver signed if they are at fault.

 

[DisneyCane]

Right so these replies are about the warning, so it is more informative, opposed to legal binding. Just like the warning signs on Mission Space. I do not sign a waiver, but we are informed of risk. My point is, no matter what we sign, a company cannot be absolved by simply having a waiver signed if they are at fault.

Correct. If they are at fault, no court will enforce a waiver. However, if you are at fault, or nobody is at fault and it's just a risk of the activity, then a waiver will be enforceable.

If you didn't sign the waiver, then they could be liable when they are not at fault. The warning signs aren't nearly as strong legally, but the risk of riding a ride at a theme park is significantly lower than driving a car at high speed, skydiving, etc. I don't think it would lead to great guest satisfaction if they tried to have everybody sign a waiver at the entrance or when getting on Space Mountain!

 

[flynnibus]

The point is that they are not pushing these cars anywhere near the limits in this experience. You seem to not be comprehending that.

Of the thousands of people that have done this experience on that track, this is the first one that lost control like that. There should never be an issue with control the way that experience is designed. This driver had to do something VERY wrong in order to lose control. It wasn't a matter of a little too much gas exiting the turn. He either can't drive or tried to do something not allowed by the experience rules.

Here's another recent example showing how someone loses control of a Lambo in what may seem like a perfectly controllable situation... This guy loses it in the middle of an interstate and puts it into the wall. Ironically.. also a rental...

https://www.facebook.com/wfaachannel8/videos/10152997510476545/

 

[DisneyGentleman]

I understand, but does it hold any weight? If I go sky diving and the parashoot fails, no matter what I signed, they are liable.

Except you would be the unfortunate victim of terminal spelling.

 

[unkadug]

Except you would be the unfortunate victim of terminal spelling.

Well chute...

 

[1023]

Except you would be the unfortunate victim of terminal spelling.

Wasn't she in Beverly Hills 90210?

*1023*

 

[PhotoDave219]

Update (that slipped past all our collective radars last week) on this from Orlando Sentinel:

Looks really, really, REALLY bad from a safety standpoint.

FHP: Cars' direction was factor in Disney speedway death

A decision to run Exotic Driving Experience sports cars in the wrong direction on the Walt Disney World Speedway was a factor in the death of an instructor there, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.

Instructor Gary Terry died in April after the driver of his car lost control, crashing into the end of a guardrail.

Terry's car would not have been exposed to the guardrail's end had the Exotic Driving Experience run its cars counterclockwise, according to a recently released FHP investigation. Richard Petty Driving Experience ran its NASCAR automobiles counterclockwise, the direction for which the track was designed. Its affiliated Exotic Driving Experience's cars traveled clockwise.

"If the cars were going in the proper direction, yes, this probably would not have been a fatal accident," crash investigator FHP Cpl. David Rodriguez told the Orlando Sentinel.

Walt Disney World, which owns the speedway, would not say whether it knew about the direction in which the cars were being driven. The resort referred questions to Petty Holdings, which operated its track's racing attractions.

Petty Holdings would not answer specific questions.

"With the release of the Florida Highway Patrol report, our thoughts remain with Gary's family, friends and our crew members," the company said in an emailed statement. "With safety as our most important priority, we will continue to review our operations and safety procedures."

Several people in the racing community had pointed out the cars' direction in April, saying that combined with the design of the guardrail could have been a factor.

"Hopefully that [the FHP report] can cause some positive change in the future," said Jon Miller, a professional race-car driver and coach.

FHP also noted that the end of the guardrail had no impact attenuator, also called a crash cushion. Having one in place also could have lessened the wreck's seriousness, Rodriguez said.

"That definitely would have prevented the endpoint from penetrating into the vehicle because they're made to collapse and take all the force," he said.

The guardrail shot 4 feet into the car, striking Terry's torso, according to the FHP report.

FHP said the driver, 24-year-old Tavon Watson of Kissimmee, ultimately contributed to Terry's death by losing control of the car, which was traveling 102 mph. FHP said in its report that at 88 mph, the turn Watson was accelerating out of "would exceed the traction force of the tires on the surface."

Because the crash occurred on private property as a sanctioned event, Florida statutes don't apply, and no charges will be filed.

The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration is also investigating.

Even before the accident, the Richard Petty Driving Experience and the Exotic Driving Experience had been scheduled to close earlier this month at the Disney speedway. That track is being demolished to make way for more Magic Kingdom parking. The Exotic Driving Experience also stopped operating at Daytona International Speedway shortly after the Disney accident.

The Richard Petty Driving Experience and Exotic Driving Experience operate at other tracks across the country. The attractions allow novices to get behind the wheel of race cars and stock cars with professional instruction.

Watson told FHP investigators the direction of the cars was mentioned before students went out on the track, but no specific reason was given other than "because it's better." One race-car driver who worked at the at the Disney speedway told the Orlando Sentinel in April that the exotic cars ran clockwise because executives thought it would be a safer way for drivers to switch between the track and a street-style course.

In an interview with the FHP obtained by the Orlando Sentinel, Watson recounted to investigators the response of a rescuer on the scene.

"I could hear him kind of either curse or say a bad word, and his exact words were, 'I told them about this. I told them about this,'" Watson said.

"I don't know what it was in reference of, but he was holding, like, he had his hand on the guardrail and stuff, and I think it was that."

Rodriguez said he also heard someone saying something similar during the investigation. Rodriguez could not determine who said it and what that person was referring to.

Watson, who appeared to cry during the interview, said he never remembered being instructed how to recover from a slide or losing control.

Somebody even made a joke prior to getting out on the track about what would happen if a driver lost control, Watson said.

A driving instructor at the track — it was not Terry — said, "'We don't speak like that,'" Watson told investigators. "We all laughed and, you know, joked about it, and that was it."

 

[MinnieM123]

Update (that slipped past all our collective radars last week) on this from Orlando Sentinel:

Looks really, really, REALLY bad from a safety standpoint.

FHP: Cars' direction was factor in Disney speedway death

A decision to run Exotic Driving Experience sports cars in the wrong direction on the Walt Disney World Speedway was a factor in the death of an instructor there, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.

Instructor Gary Terry died in April after the driver of his car lost control, crashing into the end of a guardrail.

Terry's car would not have been exposed to the guardrail's end had the Exotic Driving Experience run its cars counterclockwise, according to a recently released FHP investigation. Richard Petty Driving Experience ran its NASCAR automobiles counterclockwise, the direction for which the track was designed. Its affiliated Exotic Driving Experience's cars traveled clockwise.

"If the cars were going in the proper direction, yes, this probably would not have been a fatal accident," crash investigator FHP Cpl. David Rodriguez told the Orlando Sentinel.

Walt Disney World, which owns the speedway, would not say whether it knew about the direction in which the cars were being driven. The resort referred questions to Petty Holdings, which operated its track's racing attractions.

Petty Holdings would not answer specific questions.

"With the release of the Florida Highway Patrol report, our thoughts remain with Gary's family, friends and our crew members," the company said in an emailed statement. "With safety as our most important priority, we will continue to review our operations and safety procedures."

Several people in the racing community had pointed out the cars' direction in April, saying that combined with the design of the guardrail could have been a factor.

"Hopefully that [the FHP report] can cause some positive change in the future," said Jon Miller, a professional race-car driver and coach.

FHP also noted that the end of the guardrail had no impact attenuator, also called a crash cushion. Having one in place also could have lessened the wreck's seriousness, Rodriguez said.

"That definitely would have prevented the endpoint from penetrating into the vehicle because they're made to collapse and take all the force," he said.

The guardrail shot 4 feet into the car, striking Terry's torso, according to the FHP report.

FHP said the driver, 24-year-old Tavon Watson of Kissimmee, ultimately contributed to Terry's death by losing control of the car, which was traveling 102 mph. FHP said in its report that at 88 mph, the turn Watson was accelerating out of "would exceed the traction force of the tires on the surface."

Because the crash occurred on private property as a sanctioned event, Florida statutes don't apply, and no charges will be filed.

The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration is also investigating.

Even before the accident, the Richard Petty Driving Experience and the Exotic Driving Experience had been scheduled to close earlier this month at the Disney speedway. That track is being demolished to make way for more Magic Kingdom parking. The Exotic Driving Experience also stopped operating at Daytona International Speedway shortly after the Disney accident.

The Richard Petty Driving Experience and Exotic Driving Experience operate at other tracks across the country. The attractions allow novices to get behind the wheel of race cars and stock cars with professional instruction.

Watson told FHP investigators the direction of the cars was mentioned before students went out on the track, but no specific reason was given other than "because it's better." One race-car driver who worked at the at the Disney speedway told the Orlando Sentinel in April that the exotic cars ran clockwise because executives thought it would be a safer way for drivers to switch between the track and a street-style course.

In an interview with the FHP obtained by the Orlando Sentinel, Watson recounted to investigators the response of a rescuer on the scene.

"I could hear him kind of either curse or say a bad word, and his exact words were, 'I told them about this. I told them about this,'" Watson said.

"I don't know what it was in reference of, but he was holding, like, he had his hand on the guardrail and stuff, and I think it was that."

Rodriguez said he also heard someone saying something similar during the investigation. Rodriguez could not determine who said it and what that person was referring to.

Watson, who appeared to cry during the interview, said he never remembered being instructed how to recover from a slide or losing control.

Somebody even made a joke prior to getting out on the track about what would happen if a driver lost control, Watson said.

A driving instructor at the track — it was not Terry — said, "'We don't speak like that,'" Watson told investigators. "We all laughed and, you know, joked about it, and that was it."

That was a disturbing report from the Orlando Sentinel. One can only imagine the emotions, of the family of Mr. Terry, if they read this report as well.

 

[Nemo14]

Such a sad thing for all concerned. I got a lump in my throat just reading that report.I still don't understand why the cars were driven in that direction, but I guess it doesn't matter now.

 

[Nubs70]

Such a sad thing for all concerned. I got a lump in my throat just reading that report.I still don't understand why the cars were driven in that direction, but I guess it doesn't matter now.

The choice of direction of travel was decided upon the idea that it would be an enhancement to the guest experience and that the counter flow direction was safer based on the capabilities of the vehicles being driven.

However, it appears a fundamental hazard analysis was not performed or was ignored.