Death at Driving Experience

[Voxel]

The video also shows what happens when you hit grass too. It doesn't slow you down unless the car digs in, if the car digs in, you're going for a much bigger ride.

Everyone knows that when you apply the brakes on your car, you don't stop immediately, even the E brake. So take your highway speed of 55 mph and have the guy in front of you come up short and you have to hit the brakes and how long it takes your car to stop... Bump that up to 100+mph in something that you've just gotten behind the wheel in, and yeah, you're not going to know if it breaks loose what to do.

And pray your brakes don't fail.

 

[mousehockey37]

And pray your brakes don't fail.

Or something like this:

 

[tribbleorlfl]

Thus a degree of negligence. The degree could be more or less. I wonder if any insurance entity had pointed out issues. If issues were pointed out, the severity of negligence will increase.

I'm a Life and DI underwriter, and while I don't do commercial liability insurance, it's a standard practice in the industry to be consultative with your clients to help reduce risk and costs. Even if RPDE's UW performed such a consultation, I'm not sure there are many track safety experts in the insurance world that could properly assess the risk of an unprotected guardrail while driving clockwise on a counterclockwise track.

That is why I asked earlier in the thread if RPDE screens participant's for driving ability, record and BAE. If this case were to come a cross my desk and I found out the business allows amateurs to drive at such speeds in such expensive vehicles with the only qualification being the ability to sign a waiver, you better believe I would have DTQ'd that sucker without a second thought.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I doubt FHP is going to release it. If it's like the videos I've seen and posted, the telemetry and every camera angle is on it...

If they do, they'll release the portion leading up to impact.

 

[flynnibus]

When they are driving in the opposite direction of how the track was designed, it is clearly a safety hazard for the employees as well as the guests.

Don't disagree - but we're dealing with government and legal -- not simply common sense. OSHA doesn't just show up unless there is a reason 99.999% of the time and their scope of interest is defined by their standards, not just eyeballing things.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Going clockwise makes sense since it puts the long straight away after the high speed corner instead of before it but to not fix the barrier is inexcusable. The exotic car option is only a few years old, and IIRC they made several modifications to the track when it started, but even without the benefit of hindsight I'm struggling to see how they missed the danger those exposed ends created.

 

[DisneyCane]

No, I don't get to drive Lambos - but I do drive other MUCH TAMER cars on the track and street.. and yes, it is 'easy to go out of control in track conditions just by tapping the gas or turning the wheel a little too much' - when you are on the edge or out of position.

Any person who punches it too early in a turn, or turns in too hard carrying too much speed quickly learn what oversteer means and it's consequences. This isn't "mash and go". Your claims of driven exotics, 400+HP RWD cars, and driving aggressively, and never experienced losing control (or approaching it) just don't add up.

Your NASCAR drives are a completely different kind of beast and handling challenge.

So you've never driven these types of performance cars on a track or on the street but you are an expert in how easily they go out of control? You don't understand how well they handle or how much grip they have.

I don't understand why you imply I am lying about my driving experience. I have driven those cars and I drive my car several times a week. I can (and have) done 90 degree right turns at 40 MPH without losing control. I challenge myself on a sharp jog in a local road where I see how fast I can go and stay in my lane and I have never almost lost control.

Yes, if you mash the gas while in a tight turn, you will lose control. However, this accident occurred on a straight portion of track after a mild turn. In a supercar, you'd have to do something very out of the ordinary to lose control in that spot like making a pretty sharp turn on the straightaway or downshifting and flooring it simultaneously to completely lose the back end.

They said he was going about 100 MPH at the time of the accident. That is well within the capability of the car at the part of the track he was on.

My whole point is that these cars don't just easily lose control in a track environment. Either there was a mechanical failure or the driver did something extremely wrong that an average driver would not do.

 

[ford91exploder]

This proves a point I am also promoting. At some point, regardless of the speed, you're just along for the ride. Just because the brakes are locked up, doesn't mean you're going to stop.

That's the whole point of ABS systems when the wheels lock up the tread liquifies from the heat of friction and you slide, ABS keeps the wheels turning but at a slower rate you never want the wheels at 0 RPM until the vehicle is at a full stop.

 

[flynnibus]

So you've never driven these types of performance cars on a track or on the street but you are an expert in how easily they go out of control?

No, that's not what I said... but you're obviously not comprehending so I will stop boring the class by repeating it to you again.

I don't understand why you imply I am lying about my driving experience. I have driven those cars and I drive my car several times a week. I can (and have) done 90 degree right turns at 40 MPH without losing control. I challenge myself on a sharp jog in a local road where I see how fast I can go and stay in my lane and I have never almost lost control.

<golfclap>

Yes, if you mash the gas while in a tight turn, you will lose control. However, this accident occurred on a straight portion of track after a mild turn

No, this accident happened on turn EXIT on a high speed turn where cars are accelerating up through 100mph easy onto the high speed straight. Accelerating = stressing traction. Accelerating on turn exit = turning and accelerating simultaneous = two strains on traction to balance. Screw that up and you spin or push.

I'm happy for you that you've never pushed your car to the limit that you need to worry about such things as traction and physics... but those of us who do push the car are aware and do know you screw up, you pay.

 

[flynnibus]

That's the whole point of ABS systems when the wheels lock up the tread liquifies from the heat of friction and you slide, ABS keeps the wheels turning but at a slower rate you never want the wheels at 0 RPM until the vehicle is at a full stop.

Simple kinetic vs static friction..

 

[DisneyCane]

I'm happy for you that you've never pushed your car to the limit that you need to worry about such things as traction and physics... but those of us who do push the car are aware and do know you screw up, you pay.

The point is that they are not pushing these cars anywhere near the limits in this experience. You seem to not be comprehending that.

Of the thousands of people that have done this experience on that track, this is the first one that lost control like that. There should never be an issue with control the way that experience is designed. This driver had to do something VERY wrong in order to lose control. It wasn't a matter of a little too much gas exiting the turn. He either can't drive or tried to do something not allowed by the experience rules.

 

[Incomudro]

yeah that's what I figured - probably no extra framing/rollbars, etc.

imagine if nascar racecars were just safe enough to pass basic crash tests
basic crash tests aren't done at speeds on a racetrack with a metal guardrail facing the opposite direction

really stupid on Disney's part IMO to not see all the potential here
- opposite direction on track with guardrails like an arrow pointing at you when you spin that direction
- cars not safe enough for something like this (amateurs driving around a racetrack at racetrack-like speeds)

Passenger car safety standards do not even approach racecar safety.
Frankly, I think it's a bad idea to put novices in powerful unmodified production cars on a track.
The Richard Petty cars are a different animal.

 

[flynnibus]

The point is that they are not pushing these cars anywhere near the limits in this experience. You seem to not be comprehending that.

No, you are just dense and missing that simply because you aren't doing some high % of the car's top speed that doesn't mean the car is at risk of losing control. An oversight that we have already proven earlier in the thread.. but I guess it needs to be repeated...


Take special note of how many of these crashes occur at 'low speeds' or on straight aways and no where near 'the limits' of the car. Lambos especially (like the Viper example mentioned before) are designed with over the top edgy behavior. It is their identity.. and when its not, people question 'is this really still a XYZ?'. It's been one of the biggest complaints about the Audi/VW ownership of Lambo over the years.. the taming down into less chaotic beasts.

Here's another compliation which is a mix of stupid moves and simple loss of control.


Take special note of the crashes at about 0:30sec which show losing it on exiting a turn.. and the crash at about 3:40 which shows what happens when you lose it on a turn (he dived in too early) and how far one goes in a slide and hits the inside wall.

More radical cars means more on the edge... not necessarily 'easier to control at lower speeds'.

Of the thousands of people that have done this experience on that track, this is the first one that lost control like that

And what are you basing this on? The fact you've never heard of it? First fatality does not mean first departure of control. Goto any track day anywhere... people spin, go off, all the time. It doesn't make the news.

It wasn't a matter of a little too much gas exiting the turn. He either can't drive or tried to do something not allowed by the experience rules.

It was relayed this was not his first drive of the day.. but he had driven another car earlier. It could have been as simple as getting over confident and then making a mistake when he got in a bad situation. This idea that 'this shouldn't happen' is just pure ignorance - its always a risk because minor mistakes can lead to big impacts. These are not gokarts detuned to stay within the track limits. These are street cars that can be put into a wall at any time... even at low speeds or with 'small mistakes'.

 

[roj2323]

Yahoo post: http://news.yahoo.com/video/disney-closes-exotic-driving-experience-092450573.html

 

[twilight mitsuk]

Who's liability is this anyway, Disney's or RPDE?

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yahoo post: http://news.yahoo.com/video/disney-closes-exotic-driving-experience-092450573.html

Yeah I posted the OS version yesterday, couple of pages back.

Closed through May 1. (At least)

Personally, I can't see it reopening.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Who's liability is this anyway, Disney's or RPDE?

Yes. (both)

One as owner and the other as operator.

 

[roj2323]

Yeah I posted the OS version yesterday, couple of pages back.

Closed through May 1. (At least)

Personally, I can't see it reopening.

Just posted what I found.


I don't see it reopening either. If anything they should just get started with the demo.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

Yes. (both)

One as owner and the other as operator.

IF you slipped and fell in japan in EPCOT, do I sue doth disney and mitsukoshi?

 

[PhotoDave219]

IF you slipped and fell in japan in EPCOT, do I sue doth disney and mitsukoshi?

Neither. Watch where you walk… LOL.