Daily Beast - "Workers Reveal Disney Is Covering Up Its COVID Cases"

kpilcher

Well-Known Member
You don't understand how the media works then. If Disney reports any cases at all, then the media will blow it so out of whack that everyone will believe that every single person that visits WDW will get COVID. If you don't believe that, then I'm sorry, but you are being very naive.

Most of us in "the media" -- especially local media try very hard every day to report fairly and accurately. I can't account for cable news.

There was a story a while back from the news media that stated "Bars in Florida were forced to shutdown due to COVID-19 cases". From that headline, people would assume they meant every single bar in Florida and that some authority forced the closure.

You do know all bars are currently shut down statewide in Florida, right? Closed since June 26th by order of the Department of Business & Professional Regulation. And yes - closed due to the spread of COVID-19 cases that could be traced back to bars. Bar Owners and the Governor have been meeting for weeks to try and find some kind of compromise.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
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Most of us in "the media" -- especially local media try very hard every day to report fairly and accurately. I can't account for cable news.
My apologies as I was speaking the national news media organizations. Our local news also has fair and accurate reporting, and they don't do it with inflammatory headlines.

You do know all bars are currently shut down statewide in Florida, right? Closed since June 26th by order of the Department of Business & Professional Regulation. And yes - closed due to the spread of COVID-19 cases that could be traced back to bars. Bar Owners and the Governor have been meeting for weeks to try and find some kind of compromise.
Yes, I do know that, and it's mostly due to younger people who seem to think that it's ok for them to go to bars and act like nothing is wrong. Until you can change their mindset, we are going to have ongoing issues. Look at what is happening in the colleges and universities right now. Lots of huge parties with no one wearing masks or social distancing, just like when they were going to the bars before states had to close them as well. Oh, and the article was prior to the current shutdown. It was still full of inaccurate information, and a clickbait headline that had nothing to do with the truth at that time.

Oh, and bars can safely open if people follow the rules. Ours have been open since mid July, but with lower occupancy and social distancing enforced. Quite a few have gotten permission to add tables either in their parking lots, and even a few have partially closed streets. People around here are following the mask rules, unlike other areas of the country.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
If Disney has a safety problem in the parks, then that should and will get reported. People are injured on rides and even a few deaths, and those are reported, as they should be. But reporting something that may or may not have happened at WDW, does NOT need to be reported. Yes, if you or anyone else can PROVE that a person was infected with COVID at WDW, then that can absolutely be reported. But it has to be proven that someone got it there. That's the big difference.
I don't think anyone would claim to be able to prove that someone was infected with COVID on Disney property. But I don't think that's what people are asking for. But we can know if people were exposed on property, and we can certainly do what we know works to mitigate risks and provide the information needed to make informed decisions.

We can read the entire article, but in many cases, it's still full of half truths, inuendo, and straight out lies that can't be contradicted that are still the problem with today's media.
But with this particular article from The Daily Beast, I thought we had established that they did practice good journalism. Maybe we don't agree?

Yes, so these CMs have access to proof that Disney isn't doing something right, or do they just "think" that? So you would welcome further investigation? Why didn't they do further investigation before publishing the article - maybe with some proof of what was being alleged? Again, that is a lot of my problem with the news media nowadays. They publish a damning article about something with no proof whatsoever, and then add a blistering headline so that they pretty much guarantee that people will click on the link, and then poof, they get revenue for the ads that are on their website. It's all about the greenbacks - and not about the truth.
The article wasn't "Disney is covering up COVID cases." It was "Disney CMs claim that Disney is covering up COVID cases," which, despite the clickbaity "Workers Reveal Disney is Covering Up Its COVID Cases," is a different thing. They provided proof (in the form of text messages, interviews, and the letter submitted to government officials) that CMs are concerned about this and that they (at least some of them) are talking about this.

You'll get no argument from me about sensationalism and the media. There is a lot of bad information floating around out there, but even worse is the misreading (deliberate or otherwise, as demonstrated in this thread) of good information.

Quick note: I appreciate the dialog about this. I know it's been a lot of back and forth, and I'm not sure anyone else around here will appreciate reading all of it, but I certainly enjoy the discussion. Thanks.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Are you frickin kidding????? No journalist should EVER "fill in the blanks", as that isn't journalism. If they don't know all the answers, then say so, but to me, the story shouldn't even have been released until more could be verified. That's part of the problem with todays news media and social networks. WAY too much is posted when not all of the information is known and if some of it is proven to be completely false at a later date, the networks do not go back and retract their earlier article.
Come on. After all the good faith discussion we've had over this today, you then post this? No, I'm not kidding. By "fill in the blanks," I don't mean, "make stuff up." I mean "ask the next relevant question" and "show how all the information their investigation turns up might fit together."

The article did not claim that Disney is covering up COVID cases. It "claimed" that CMs claimed this. This is news. You might not agree with this news. You might not think this news is important. You might disagree with the CMs or how the CMs went about reporting their concerns. You might not even like the way the article was written or the organization that published it. But it's still news that CMs have made this claim.

The journalist verified that the CMs were, in fact CMs. She reached out to all the unions that represent CMs at DL/DS. They contacted the people who were supposedly included on the text messages to make sure those were real. They looked into contemporraneous accounts to verify when conversations happened and when one CM (who had tested positive) told his father that he had been called in to work. They reached out to government officials and Disney corporate. I'm not sure what further verification would be possible for the report being made.
 

jprusso

New Member
You start this post with "the article is bs," but then go on to say that it is news that CMs are claiming that Disney is doing shady stuff. Why did you do that?

It would certainly be news if these claims turn out to be true–as you mention, Disney is very strict when it comes to liability. But the CMs in the article claim that there is a lack of organization within the company, and that different managers/supervisors are all handling things differently- and in some cases, contrary to Disney's stated policy.
Bs article. here’s my proof. Read the original article before guessing at intentions of a post. I quoted the original article as it states that the Gardner reported back to work with positive test result. The article then goes on to state that Disney waited a week before announcing and left co-workers at risk.
 

kpilcher

Well-Known Member
My apologies as I was speaking the national news media organizations. Our local news also has fair and accurate reporting, and they don't do it with inflammatory headlines.
Oh, and the article was prior to the current shutdown. It was still full of inaccurate information, and a clickbait headline that had nothing to do with the truth at that time.
Most of us hate clickbait headlines in my biz. Usually the web staff writes the headlines not us producers and reporters. Ours are very good at being fair... even though they do have to write something to make you click on it.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Bs article. here’s my proof. Read the original article before guessing at intentions of a post. I quoted the original article as it states that the Gardner reported back to work with positive test result. The article then goes on to state that Disney waited a week before announcing and left co-workers at risk.
I have read the original article. Multiple times now, because every time someone posts something that I don’t remember being in the article, I go back and read the article again. And I did not guess at your intentions in posting- that’s why I asked you about part of your post that seemed contradictory.

The CMs featured in the article did, in fact, claim that a Disney gardener came back to work between being tested for COVID and receiving his (positive) test results. Here’s the part you seem to take issue with:

“The first week back, two sources familiar with the situation told The Daily Beast, one gardener went home sick. He had come back to work, only to find—after getting tested on his own time—that he had caught the virus from a relative. Two sources told The Daily Beast that Disney did not confirm the positive case until the following Monday, letting a week lapse before his co-workers knew they may have been exposed.”

Is it that you don’t agree that this happened? Do you not agree that the CMs claimed this?
 

Polkadotdress

Well-Known Member
That said, with this all being out, I think Disney would be crazy not to do an internal investigation. A lot is riding on reopening the resort, including the hotels, so they absolutely need to get it right.

Hong Kong already had to close after reopening, we don't want that in California too.

HKDL closed due to a mandate from the HK government, and not because there was an uncontrolled outbreak among the Cast/guests.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
HKDL closed due to a mandate from the HK government, and not because there was an uncontrolled outbreak among the Cast/guests.

That is a fact. I never said why it closed, just that it closed.

Regardless, Disney doesn't need to reopen and reclose parks. Once Disneyland opens, they need to do what they can to keep it open.
 

PG 134

Active Member
I'll give yall an example of people I personally know. CM1 stopped appearing for several shifts. CM2 was summoned to Health Services(I think that was location) due to being in close proximity sometimes to CM1 during shifts. CM2 was sent home for X amount of days (like CM1) or until CMs come back with test stating CMs do not have Virus.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
Come on. After all the good faith discussion we've had over this today, you then post this? No, I'm not kidding. By "fill in the blanks," I don't mean, "make stuff up." I mean "ask the next relevant question" and "show how all the information their investigation turns up might fit together."

The article did not claim that Disney is covering up COVID cases. It "claimed" that CMs claimed this. This is news. You might not agree with this news. You might not think this news is important. You might disagree with the CMs or how the CMs went about reporting their concerns. You might not even like the way the article was written or the organization that published it. But it's still news that CMs have made this claim.

The journalist verified that the CMs were, in fact CMs. She reached out to all the unions that represent CMs at DL/DS. They contacted the people who were supposedly included on the text messages to make sure those were real. They looked into contemporraneous accounts to verify when conversations happened and when one CM (who had tested positive) told his father that he had been called in to work. They reached out to government officials and Disney corporate. I'm not sure what further verification would be possible for the report being made.
Sorry, but I misunderstood the fill in the blanks statement. The problem is that too many reporters fill in the blanks with their opinions, without stating that this is an opinion, so everyone takes any statements like that as fact.

Since you stated that more relevant investigation and information is needed, I just feel that more should have been done prior to the release of this piece. I'm not concerned that it could make Disney look bad, I'm concerned that there is concrete proof of wrongdoing in the company, prior to releasing information that Disney "may" have not been doing things the right way. CMs claiming this is not proof. Again, I'm not defending Disney, as I can certainly believe that they "may" be under-reporting the issue, but without proof, it's still just conjecture on the part of the CMs and the writer of the article.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
I'll give yall an example of people I personally know. CM1 stopped appearing for several shifts. CM2 was summoned to Health Services(I think that was location) due to being in close proximity sometimes to CM1 during shifts. CM2 was sent home for X amount of days (like CM1) or until CMs come back with test stating CMs do not have Virus.
Hmm, that sounds more like Disney is trying to do the right thing, not that they are ignoring the problem.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
CMs claiming this is not proof. Again, I'm not defending Disney, as I can certainly believe that they "may" be under-reporting the issue, but without proof, it's still just conjecture on the part of the CMs and the writer of the article.
Nobody is saying that the article presented proof that Disney has done anything wrong. The proof was that CMs are claiming that Disney has done something wrong. This is news.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
Nobody is saying that the article presented proof that Disney has done anything wrong. The proof was that CMs are claiming that Disney has done something wrong. This is news.
And that is where we will have to agree to disagree. Claiming isn't proof of anything, and could be as simple as they "think" Disney is doing something wrong, but they don't know it for a fact. To me, it isn't news without proof of wrongdoing.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
And that is where we will have to agree to disagree. Claiming isn't proof of anything, and could be as simple as they "think" Disney is doing something wrong, but they don't know it for a fact. To me, it isn't news without proof of wrongdoing.
No, I'm not saying that "claiming is proof of anything." I'm saying the article gave evidence that the CMs are claiming that this happened. These are two different things!

We don't disagree. You are right that this may be nothing more than these CMs thinking Disney did something wrong. This, in itself, is news- that CMs THINK Disney is not acting in accordance to laws/policies/guidelines.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
This seems to be going nowhere. I guess it depends on which definition you accept for "news." If you define it as noteworthy information about a recent event, what some CMs think could be happening without "proof of anything" probably does not qualify. If you define it simply as information not previously known, it seems to qualify as that, at least. In any event, reporting what someone thinks with no proof is the poorest quality of "news."
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
This seems to be going nowhere. I guess it depends on which definition you accept for "news." If you define it as noteworthy information about a recent event, what some CMs think could be happening without "proof of anything" probably does not qualify. If you define it simply as information not previously known, it seems to qualify as that, at least. In any event, reporting what someone thinks with no proof is the poorest quality of "news."

I agree. At what point do news agencies start taking comments here and start saying "Disney fans reveal the company...". It doesn't just need to be texts. By this standard, you could make news from anything, IMO. I think it's pretty common knowledge that some people are afraid to return to work in almost any occupation the requires some person to person contact. Rightfully so too, but that's not news to me.

Disney covering up cases would be news, but there's no substance to it at this point. Disney CM's aren't the best sources for information, as we've learned.

If this was about a new attraction, it would have been quickly dismissed.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
This seems to be going nowhere. I guess it depends on which definition you accept for "news." If you define it as noteworthy information about a recent event, what some CMs think could be happening without "proof of anything" probably does not qualify. If you define it simply as information not previously known, it seems to qualify as that, at least.

This story is maybe a degree more than, "CMs think this might be happening"- it's more like "CMs are reporting that this is happening." CMs have direct experience with Disney's enforcement of health laws and policies, so they're not just random people with opinions, right?

In any event, reporting what someone thinks with no proof is the poorest quality of "news."
I wonder if you'd still agree with this statement (maybe you would) if it was applied to a different situation? You don't think "what someone thinks" is ever news? Or is it just what CMs think that isn't news? Just trying to understand.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
I agree. At what point do news agencies start taking comments here and start saying "Disney fans reveal the company...". It doesn't just need to be texts.
Of course they will, they've been doing this for years!
By this standard, you could make news from anything, IMO. I think it's pretty common knowledge that some people are afraid to return to work in almost any occupation the requires some person to person contact. Rightfully so too, but that's not news to me.

Disney covering up cases would be news, but there's no substance to it at this point. Disney CM's aren't the best sources for information, as we've learned.

If this was about a new attraction, it would have been quickly dismissed.
What makes you think that "news" should be "proving that things happened?"

It may be common knowledge that lots of people are afraid to work, but it is likely of particular interest to park guests (and fans like us) that CMs are complaining (both to their supervisors/managers at Disney and also to government officials) that Disney might be breaking the rules they established to keep people safe?

Disney CMs may not be the most reliable sources of insider information, I agree. But if an employee says "I'm seeing shady stuff going on," don't you think that warrants further investigation? I do! And if complaints up the food chain and letters to local and state officials didn't trigger that further investigation, maybe this little article will.
 
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