Daily Beast - "Workers Reveal Disney Is Covering Up Its COVID Cases"

Chi84

Premium Member
This story is maybe a degree more than, "CMs think this might be happening"- it's more like "CMs are reporting that this is happening." CMs have direct experience with Disney's enforcement of health laws and policies, so they're not just random people with opinions, right?


I wonder if you'd still agree with this statement (maybe you would) if it was applied to a different situation? You don't think "what someone thinks" is ever news? Or is it just what CMs think that isn't news? Just trying to understand.
I did acknowledge that by the second definition, it is news (information not previously known), just not significant enough for me to attach much weight to it. I don't know who these CMs are or what their motives were in getting out their "information," other than their stated motive to force Disney to close. In my opinion, having that agenda may have colored what information they were accepting and discarding as they investigated. They may not be "random people," but they could be biased or even untruthful. So - not knowing the CMs - you have to trust the news organization that is doing the reporting to ensure trustworthiness. When I see that the headline misrepresents the contents (the CMs did not "reveal" wrongdoing - they just think it's happening), it leads me to question the trustworthiness of the news source. Then I see a picture of WDW when the article is supposed to be about Disneyland, and it leads me to question their commitment to accuracy.

I don't think it is productive to argue over whether or not the article is news. When I was younger, you could trust most news outlets to be both objective and accurate. That's not the case now. It's more important than ever to be discerning in what you accept as fact, and this article does not meet my personal standard because of the issues I stated above. Others may have different standards, and may consider the article valuable. In any event, it's perfectly understandable that reasonable people would disagree on how much weight to give the article.

At one point you said that the mere fact that CM's think this might be happening is news, now your'e saying that the story is more than "CMs think this might be happening." At this rate, there will be no end to the discussion.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
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Of course they will, they've been doing this for years!

You're not wrong, but I don't consider it real news when they do it. I usually roll my eyes when I see it. Especially when they use Twitter or something and say "Disney fans". Mainstream media is guilty of this too.

It's all about advertisement revenue anymore. Pumping out "story" after "story".

But if an employee says "I'm seeing shady stuff going on," don't you think that warrants further investigation? I do! And if complaints up the food chain and letters to local and state officials didn't trigger that further investigation, maybe this little article will.

I understand what you're saying and agree that it should be investigated internally.

These people do not come across as having tried to express themselves through proper channels and have actually violated the terms of their employment by talking to the media. That's shady too, no?

The difference is that someone here did absolutely engage in shady behavior, Disney "might" be. It does need to be investigated, but with all the unions involved, Disney has its channels that are happy to call out any misdeeds.

The various unions are often pretty good watchdogs in my experience.

As a former CM myself, they're making accusations that your average CM would have little to no information about. Unless they're in management, which I will grant is possible. We don't have that info, unfortunately, which is why I look at it with a very high amount of skepticism. CM's, in my experience personally, talk nonsense all the time. This just got made public, which based on their agreed terms of employment, it shouldn't have.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
I did acknowledge that by the second definition, it is news (information not previously known), just not significant enough for me to attach much weight to it. I don't know who these CMs are or what their motives were in getting out their "information," other than their stated motive to force Disney to close. In my opinion, having that agenda may have colored what information they were accepting and discarding as they investigated. They may not be "random people," but they could be biased or even untruthful. So - not knowing the CMs - you have to trust the news organization that is doing the reporting to ensure trustworthiness. When I see that the headline misrepresents the contents (the CMs did not "reveal" wrongdoing - they just think it's happening), it leads me to question the trustworthiness of the news source. Then I see a picture of WDW when the article is supposed to be about Disneyland, and it leads me to question their commitment to accuracy.

I don't think it is productive to argue over whether or not the article is news. When I was younger, you could trust most news outlets to be both objective and accurate. That's not the case now. It's more important than ever to be discerning in what you accept as fact, and this article does not meet my personal standard because of the issues I stated above. Others may have different standards, and may consider the article valuable. In any event, it's perfectly understandable that reasonable people would disagree on how much weight to give the article.

At one point you said that the mere fact that CM's think this might be happening is news, now your'e saying that the story is more than "CMs think this might be happening." At this rate, there will be no end to the discussion.
The nature of "news" and what constitutes a "news outlet" has changed a lot over the years, hasn't it? These days, everyone is "the media!"

I agree that it's probably not productive to go round and round about what is and isn't news. To be honest, I only jumped into the thread to discuss the actual article- I wanted to see what folks here thought about these CM's concerns.

But then all the strange (to me) misunderstanding, misreading, poor comprehension, and outright mischaracterization of the article (and journalism in general) got me fired up.

You're right, I did say that "CMs think this might be happening" is newsworthy. I still think that. But over the course of interacting in this thread (and reading the article several times), it occurred to me that the article shows more than just "CMs think this might be happening"- it shows "CMs thought this might have been happening [on established dates] and have tried to complain via multiple channels, but have not received a response."

I'm not trying to build some airtight argument here. I don't have an agenda, and other than thinking we need further investigation, I'm not even sure what I think about these claims. I'm not trying to defend The Daily Beast or the journalist who wrote the article. I just enjoy discussing the goings on inside Disney (especially the parks).

What I don't enjoy is snarky, mocking, condescending drive-bys from people who are being intentionally obtuse. That's why I continued to interact with @CJR, @Chi84, @LuvtheGoof, @flynnibus, and others: because you all engaged thoughtfully, even when we disagreed.
 

CJR

Well-Known Member
Like I mentioned in another thread @_caleb earned my respect. Has a heart for harding work CM's too. I respect that. I've actually enjoyed the discussion.

have tried to complain via multiple channels, but have not received a response."

Did you see that in the article? I know the reporter reached out to the unions, I didn't see the CM's say that. That would be the right thing to do IMO. The unions are best to fight these battles, IMO. Just like the entertainers did in FL.

I doubt there will ever be a uniform policy company-wide, unfortunately.

The unions not responding to a non-member isn't surprising to me. That doesn't mean that they're not working though. I will be surprised if they did nothing after being asked.

Just my two cents, the silence is either that nothing was found supporting the claims, keep in mind they're only focused on the employees they cover, or they're still looking since it can take time to ensure information is accurate. Especially if the media is looking to exploit it, it's important that any formal information is accurate and clearly reported.

Hopefully Disney will try their best to keep employees and guests as safe as possible.

It should be noted though that Disney cannot keep paying benefits to people not working forever. If someone has too much issue working after multiple officials deem it acceptable, it might be in their best interest to find a job that they can do comfortably. This pandemic is not ending anytime soon. Disney will need people either working or leaving the company at some point, IMO. Bleeding cash long-term just won't be an option IMO. SO, I think anyone hoping to close Disney might want to "think it through".

If DL were to not open by the end of the year, I wouldn't count on staying employed. It's just the situation that we're in.

So, here's hoping that they find a way to do it responsibly. That's what's best for all involved IMHO. Some people still won't like it, but it's what will have to happen.
 
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_caleb

Well-Known Member
Did you see that in the article? I know the reporter reached out to the unions, I didn't see the CM's say that. That would be the right thing to do IMO. The unions are best to fight these battles, IMO. Just like the entertainers did in FL.
I don't see anywhere in the article where it clearly says CMs took their concerns to their managers. The "multiple channels" I had in mind were the discussions with the unions, the letters to the mayor and governor, then talking to the reporter (who then reached out to other CMs, Disney, the unions, and local and State officials). After this report, we know each of these has at least been made aware of the complaints.

I agree the lack of a response from a union rep doesn't mean much- they would not talk publicly about any ongoing issues or investigations-especially if they relate to negotiations with the company.

It should be noted though that Disney cannot keep paying benefits to people not working forever. If someone has too much issue working after multiple officials deem it acceptable, it might be in their best interest to find a job that they can do comfortably. This pandemic is not ending anytime soon. Disney will need people either working or leaving the company at some point, IMO. Bleeding cash long-term just won't be an option IMO. SO, I think anyone hoping to close Disney might want to "think it through".
I agree. Indefinite furlough isn't going to work for the long term. And, in my opinion, some of that money should be used to pay active-duty employees who test positive to stay home until they're cleared (testing negative). This is why Disney needs to do a LOT of testing of CMs- they can't (and shouldn't) pay people to stay home simply because they were exposed.

I'm watching for further developments. It's entirely possible nothing will come of it. But some better communication between CMs and their employer sure would be nice.
 

spock8113

Active Member
Sooner or later, Disney will have to accept the fact that they can't continue to operate this way and make any money, much less pay employees for much longer. Having people who tested positive waiting to be cleared with a negative test is just a waste of time because those positive people were in contact with other cast members, guests and most likely were helping in cleaning. The entire temperature taking thing is merely window dressing presenting the vague idea of vigilance when in fact, people (including kids) can carry and still not have a temperature. Then there was the talk of legislation that would give companies the veil of no liability! With this legislation, that has gone nowhere thankfully, companies like Disney could operate in a pandemic environment, force their employees to work or be fired and then get off scot-free with no responsibility of getting employees or guests sick or worse.
As it is right now, gyms are staying shut and filing for bankruptcy with 90% employment rate.
There is also a good possibility that the worst is yet to come with the flu season approaching and the difficulty in differentiating between the Flu symptoms and COVID. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu
As far as Disneyland opening, really? California's COVID cases lead the country and when Newsome acquiesced to July 4th Beach crowds after closing them, the beaches filled and the cases spread:
WDW opening up during the pandemic in Florida is no better and neither are Florida's numbers that also began climbing after July 4th:

So many companies are laying off or having people work remotely. And look at colleges and schools where outbreaks are happening.
Some schools are doing remote learning until January and many business are staying remote if they can until January.
COVID case numbers are starting to drop some because I think most people are understanding some safe practices but in my view, operating WDW at the 2018 levels just aren't realistic and I think Disney is simply forestalling the inevitable. January is a good date but it may even need to be longer.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
Heaven forbid anyone should ever get sick.

People have been coming to work at WDW virus-positive for decades.

There is literally next to zero actual threat from COVID. Time to get over it.
WDW has become the BAR that other entertainment venues are looking at. With the protocols and sanitation enforced on Disney property guests are actually way less likely to contract an illness in the parks than in the surrounding community.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
WDW has become the BAR that other entertainment venues are looking at. With the protocols and sanitation enforced on Disney property guests are actually way less likely to contract an illness in the parks than in the surrounding community.
Problem is, we don’t know if this is true because Disney has not disclosed how many CMs or Guests have been in close contact with infected people on property.
 
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