News D23 Expo 2022

[WolverineInMichigan]

May we have some fun? Can we start unfounded rumors?
1) The ignoring of WDW was due to the DeSantis /Disney War?
2) The WDW diss was due to a Bob Chapek power play to show who is the boss?
3) These were the First Shots of the Last Stand of the Reedy Creek War?

On second thought, never mind. As the Panels this weekend showed...humor is very subjective.

 

[wutisgood]

I don’t think anyone things Universal is going to overtake Disney or anything. However any impact to market share is a “threat” this is the first major significant park in Orlando in decades. This also is bringing more hotel rooms to the area. Universal also has long term plans of a fourth park and another entertainment district. All very significant. Disney may not be concerned now but that also happened with Potter. Potter impacted them. This will also impact them. There is no denying that. The degree it does is the question.

Even smaller parks are gearing up. Sea World is planning major additions over the next 5 years. They are banking on more people coming to the area.

Sea world has some great deals for multi park tickets but the gate and even 1 park pricing is insane mostly because they are taking advantage of Disney and Universal pricing. If I am Sea World I am adding a 25-50 million ride every year for the next decade and raking in the money from a market starved for more affordability and competitors in Disney that cant build rides for a budget anymore or universal that while they will get better value, is going to bring tons of additional guests due to location and people splitting vacations.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Well, a lot of people in Vloggerland, including major Walt fan Adam the Woo, seem to be universally bashing this D23. They're pretty much echoing the same complaints made here. Looks like the big overhyped overpriced schmoozefest was a bust.

Speaking of disappointments, I wonder how the Imagineers who are working on replacing Splash with Tiana's Salt Mines...I wonder how they really feel about it. I wonder how they feel about all the lavish detail and great storytelling, all the charm and multitudes of appealing animatronics, being ripped out and discarded because of weak leadership, poor taste, and knee-jerk bad judgement. It can't feel good, destroying all that artistry created by past Imagineers, only to replace it with something inspired by virtue-signalling. I wonder if any of them feel even the tiniest bit of guilt or regret. I wonder if any of them really believe that there was something wrong enough with the ride to warrant its destruction. I just wonder.

P.S. I am not going to get into a debate over this with anybody. I will not respond to anyone's reply to this post. If the mods want to remove it, that's fine with me.

Thats why is said Tony B. will be there for the ribbon cutting and say BUH-Bye…

 

[TalkingHead]

Sea world has some great deals for multi park tickets but the gate and even 1 park pricing is insane mostly because they are taking advantage of Disney and Universal pricing.

Not true for Florida resident prices. One day is around $90, but the AP prices are much, much less than WDW or Universal. Just checked, and it’s $130 for an AP that expires at the end of 2023, with limited blockout dates.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

That's why we're talking about the MK expansion. That would in turn increase capacity.

But that’s my point, eventually you can’t increase capacity anymore, to substantially expand MK beyond current capacity they’d have to tear down Main Street and make it larger because thats the pinch point, they could add dozens of rides in the back of the park but Main Street and the size of the walkways would still limit capacity to essentially what it is today.

This is why I’m such a proponent of a third castle park in a new state, Disneyland and MK are at max capacity, they’ve done everything they can to widen walkways, eliminate curbs, create bypasses, reduce planter sizes… there‘s simply no more room to expand the walkways. The only other real option is add a second entrance/exit so they can bypass the pinch point, which is kind of what they’ve proposed with Disneyland forward (or whatever it’s called). It would be much harder logistically to do that at MK though.

 

[wutisgood]

Not true for Florida resident prices. One day is around $90, but the AP prices are much, much less than WDW or Universal. Just checked, and it’s $130 for an AP that expires at the end of 2023, with limited blockout dates.

I think the 1 day non Florida pricing was around 118 before tax. Of course ap prices are less for locals. The two park at universal is not much more for the cheapest pass x2 and the Disney cheap pass for residents is one of the best local deals in Florida. The locals get better deals.

 

[Jrb1979]

But that’s my point, eventually you can’t increase capacity anymore, to substantially expand MK beyond current capacity they’d have to tear down Main Street and make it larger because thats the pinch point, they could add dozens of rides in the back of the park but Main Street and the size of the walkways would still limit capacity to essentially what it is today.

This is why I’m such a proponent of a third castle park in a new state, Disneyland and MK are at max capacity, they’ve done everything they can to widen walkways, eliminate curbs, create bypasses, reduce planter sizes… there‘s simply no more room to expand the walkways. The only other real option is add a second entrance/exit so they can bypass the pinch point, which is kind of what they’ve proposed with Disneyland forward (or whatever it’s called). It would be much harder logistically to do that at MK though.

They don't need another castle park. They need to make the other 3 parks better to get people to visit them.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

They don't need another castle park. They need to make the other 3 parks better to get people to visit them.

I agree with that also, DCA too. The only way to substantially increase castle park capacity (which is the real Disney draw for casual fans) is a new park though.

 

[bcoachable]

I think we are seeing the results of:

A. Upper mgmt not wanting to spend money

B. MANY key Imagineers being let go/ laid off/ leaving for greener pastures during the Covid stretch

C. Younger Imagineers scared for their future to speak out/up

This is why we can’t / won’t get nice things for the foreseeable future.

And let me add-
to not figure out a way to get the stinking train (Fantasmic, Stich Replacement, Play Pavilion or whatever that ends up being) up and steaming again (& announce it at a fan event) is an absolute middle finger to any true park fan- imo of course…

Current Imagineers- no offense meant… I know you are doing all you feel you can, under the current situation.

 

[wutisgood]

I think we are seeing the results of:

A. Upper mgmt not wanting to spend money

B. MANY key Imagineers being let go/ laid off/ leaving for greener pastures during the Covid stretch

C. Younger Imagineers scared for their future to speak out/up

This is why we can’t / won’t get nice things for the foreseeable future.

And let me add-
to not figure out a way to get the stinking train (Fantasmic, Stich Replacement, Play Pavilion or whatever that ends up being) up and steaming again (& announce it at a fan event) is an absolute middle finger to any true park fan- imo of course…

Current Imagineers- no offense meant… I know you are doing all you feel you can, under the current situation.

Why is Disney employing imaginers at a significant expense to not have authority to greenlight projects? I imagine if disney built the velocicoaster it would have cost an additional 50-100 million.

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree with that also, DCA too. The only way to substantially increase castle park capacity (which is the real Disney draw for casual fans) is a new park though.

They will never do that as it will end up taking away from the other parks.

 

[TalkingHead]

I think the 1 day non Florida pricing was around 118 before tax. Of course ap prices are less for locals. The two park at universal is not much more for the cheapest pass x2 and the Disney cheap pass for residents is one of the best local deals in Florida. The locals get better deals.

The point is SeaWorld’s local deals are actual deals.

Universal’s cheapest seasonal Florida resident AP is $324, and doesn’t include $27/day parking. Disney’s cheapest Florida *weekday* AP is $399, with blockout days. The cheapest Disney Florida AP with weekends is $699.

None of those options is remotely close to SeaWorld’s resident $130 AP for 15 months or whatever. So in the realm of insane pricing, WDW and Uni remain in a league of their own.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

But that’s my point, eventually you can’t increase capacity anymore, to substantially expand MK beyond current capacity they’d have to tear down Main Street and make it larger because thats the pinch point, they could add dozens of rides in the back of the park but Main Street and the size of the walkways would still limit capacity to essentially what it is today.

This is why I’m such a proponent of a third castle park in a new state, Disneyland and MK are at max capacity, they’ve done everything they can to widen walkways, eliminate curbs, create bypasses, reduce planter sizes… there‘s simply no more room to expand the walkways. The only other real option is add a second entrance/exit so they can bypass the pinch point, which is kind of what they’ve proposed with Disneyland forward (or whatever it’s called). It would be much harder logistically to do that at MK though.

We won't get a fifth park but you are right about the other entrance. I firmly believe that part of the MK expansion will include a direct entrance resort similar to Grand Californian and possibly a public entrance as well.

 

[MrPromey]

I'm all for creativity, but I can't be the only person who is kinda tired of the "immersive lands" approach to attractions? Sure, it is great when you have a iconic environments like Harry Potter, Star Wars, and Avatar. In those cases the environments are appealing to potential visitors, and add are a main reason to visit a park (besides the actual rides within the lands).

But not environments/worlds for (insert-latest-female/male lead animated movie). These are all better left for stand-alone rides, in my opinion.

You can blame Universal for this trend. Simpson's land pioneered this concept - spin an entire land around a single IP via an e-ticket and a b or c-ticket "supporting" it with dining and retail.

Since then, Disney has taken that concept and run with it in almost everything they've done stateside.

I would not be at all shocked if Disney was ready to test the waters by eliminating the c-ticket and possibly downgrading the single attraction to something more akin to a d-ticket - more retail less cost.

 

[bcoachable]

Why is Disney employing imaginers at a significant expense to not have authority to greenlight projects? I imagine if disney built the velocicoaster it would have cost an additional 50-100 million.

Part of my point is that they aren’t employing them (as many, any way) any longer… much of the work is now being “sent out”. Did you take a look at the art work at D22? What did you think of the quality as compared to years past?
Imagineering as we used to know it is no longer necessary… IMO of course…

 

[Jrb1979]

Part of my point is that they aren’t employing them (as many, any way) any longer… much of the work is now being “sent out”. Did you take a look at the art work at D22? What did you think of the quality as compared to years past?
Imagineering as we used to know it is no longer necessary… IMO of course…

A lot former Imagineers went to Universal. It's a big reason a lot of the newer attractions have been so well done. As @lazyboy97o said the leaders of Disney don't understand Theme parks.

 

[MrPromey]

Anyone upset with this show should realize something.

If they had not shown the concepts for Animal and MK it would mean we weren't likely to get anything big for at least 5 years. These still might take 3-4 years to be completed but it's a good sign. Disney is not going to sit back and let Universal open Epic Universe unanswered.

In the end, the fans win. We'll get some huge new lands and attractions by 2025-2026 and I'm all for that. Dino is a disaster and more MKis a good thing.

Sorry but I think you're missed what Josh actually said.

Because they showed these concepts, it means we're likely not getting anything new of note to AK or MK until 2030 or later.

These weren't greenlit projects. They weren't even fully fleshed out ideas. There have been a number of coffee table books published by Disney over the years depicting various concept art for things that they never built - nothing they presented or said around any of this even means they haven't already made the decision not to greenlight any of it.

This was a way for them to get a room full of people excited about them announcing "We have absolutely nothing in the pipeline worth mentioning.".

There are dozens of other sets of blue sky concept art they could have shown us and gotten the same reaction.

They literally announced NOTHING by showing us this. Trying to interpret this as them actually announcing anything is going to happen is, frankly, doing their spin-work for them.

Might any of this stuff happen some day?

Sure.

Does this presentation make any of that more likely?

No and the fact that they announced this the way they did really says more than if they'd just said nothing at all about what isn't planned which currently appears to be absolutely anything at all.

 

[MrPromey]

You could argue that they'll spend five years in design and it won't come out until 2030 . . .

and that's what I'd actually argue with the added caveat of "if at all in any form".

 

[MisterPenguin]

A lot former Imagineers went to Universal. It's a big reason a lot of the newer attractions have been so well done. As @lazyboy97o said the leaders of Disney don't understand Theme parks.

And he'll be right along to tell you how Uni fired most of their 'imagineers' during the pandemic heyday.

 

[MrPromey]

... Like what did they have to talk about at the D23 events in the 90s? Maybe 1 big project? ...

There was no D23 in the 90's.

Disney didn't create it until 2009.

They did have Disneyana conventions that alternated between east and west coast each year but they were a much smaller affair for what I'd call a more hardcore crowd and there was a far greater focus on Disney legend type stuff than them trying to create their own braded comicon experience.

They didn't use them to make big park or movie or resort announcements or anything like that on an annual schedule the way the D23 events do.