Cuts coming to every area of parks and resorts - thanks to Shanghai and Paris

[photomatt]

No, we comprehend. You were abusing a courtesy, and now you're no longer able to, and somehow you want to place the blame at the feet of the people you can no longer take advantage of.

Please explain the abuse you allege I am guilty of. Please be sure to explain how leaving the park long before security sweeps Main Street is abuse. I really would like to know.

 

[VJ]

You were on Main Street for a full hour and twenty minutes after park closing.....you need to find yourself a girl mate.

You seem somewhat familiar... have I threatened you before?

 

[photomatt]

It seems you, confronted with your actions, are the one projecting incomprehensible accusations onto others, be it posters here or security personelle doing their job. Just because security had not previously made its way to you has no bearing on your abuse of Disney's courtesy. All you've described is a pattern of not getting caught and then anger when finally getting caught.

Please explain how leaving the park long before security sweeps Main Street exhibits a pattern of "not getting caught". Make sure to include the part where I clearly say that I am nowhere near to being the last person out of the park.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Please explain how leaving the park long before security sweeps Main Street exhibits a pattern of "not getting caught". Make sure to include the part where I clearly say that I am nowhere near to being the last person out of the park.

The courtesy is not sweeping the area immediately at closing so that visitors can more casually make their way to exit, but the idea is to still have them head towards the exit. It is not about giving you more time to engage in your personal activities without the interference of other patrons. That you are not the last person is irrelevant, you are deliberately staying past closing for your own ends.

 

[Matt_Black]

Please explain the abuse you allege I am guilty of. Please be sure to explain how leaving the park long before security sweeps Main Street is abuse. I really would like to know.

Were you there after the scheduled closing time, yes or no?

 

[photomatt]

The courtesy is not sweeping the area immediately at closing so that visitors can more casually make their way to exit, but the idea is to still have them head towards the exit. It is not about giving you more time to engage in your personal activities without the interference of other patrons. That you are not the last person is irrelevant, you are deliberately staying past closing for your own ends.

You still fail to comprehend my OP.

 

[photomatt]

Were you there after the scheduled closing time, yes or no?

Yes. Is that your point? If so, it's still not relevant, and it still shows you refuse to comprehend my OP.

 

[Matt_Black]

Read my first post. Please don't comment on it unless you comprehend it.

Are you making a conscious choice to refuse to comprehend my first post?

You still fail to comprehend my OP.

Yes. Is that your point? If so, it's still not relevant, and it still shows you refuse to comprehend my OP.

 

[photomatt]

Your trick is as tired as that meme.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well, I'll give you credit on one thing- you've managed to get me and @lazyboy97o to agree on something. Well done.

 

[photomatt]

Well, I'll give you credit on one thing- you've managed to get me and @lazyboy97o to agree on something. Well done.

Do you earn free tickets to the parks by defending Disney no matter what they do? I realize tickets are expensive, but when you actively help devalue the Disney experience, aren't your actions hurting yourself as well as others?

 

[PhotoDave219]

I think this is the right thread to post in, even though I am going to describe a recent experience I had at DL. At the end of my story, I'm going to ask a question that is specifically MK related, so I'm pretty sure this post belongs here.

On Thursday, April 14th I went to DL. I was there in March, before the budget cuts, so I do have a recent experience to compare it to. I can also compare this experience with numerous other visits to DL and MK, so I know something is wrong. The park closed at 9pm, right after the Disneyland Forever fireworks show. I was in TL and started taking pictures of Space Mountain and the old COP building. I noticed that the park was clearing out pretty quickly, but I didn't give it much thought. Around 9:15, yes, 9:15, I noticed a security guard standing nearby. I also noticed there were no other guests around me, so I knew it was time to move towards Main Street. I walked to the part of TL where it borders the hub and took some pictures there.

I then headed to the castle. This was actually my entire reason for coming this time. I brought my tripod this time and I wanted to get pictures of the castle with the spotlights behind it. There were some people in front of the castle taking pictures so I waited for them to finish. I then set up my tripod, took a few pictures, and then a security guard came up to me and said, "That needs to be your last picture. We need to clear this area out."

I was shocked. It was 9:30, and I have never seen the park clear out so quickly. I have also never had security tell me I needed to stop taking pictures and leave. It has never happened. I am usually way ahead of the security CM's as they sweep the park. In fact, I normally don't even get close to them. I asked the CM what policy had changed and why they were clearing out the park so quickly. He said nothing had changed and they always clear the area in front of the castle so quickly. I knew that was an absolute lie, because I have pictures I took in front of the castle after my last visit that were taken more than 30 minutes after park closing. I figured this was just an incredibly rare occurrence, and I moved towards Main Street.

I took a few pictures on Main Street and I waited in Town Square for it to clear out enough for me to take pictures in the middle of the street aiming towards the castle. I had just set up my tripod and yet another security CM tells me, again, I need to stop taking pictures because they need to clear out the park. It was 10:15, which was 1 hour and 15 minutes after park closing, and 15 minutes after the Main Street shops closed. This time I was not happy. I asked this CM what changed and he lied to me again. He said they always clear the park out like this and that it has been this way for the 20 years that he has worked at DL. Once again, I knew this was a bold-faced lie.

I walked out of the park and asked to speak to a security lead. He admitted that what happened was unusual, but he would not tell me the reason why. By his own admission, he would never even begin to talk to someone "lingering" until at least 30 minutes after Main Street closed. After I walked through the turnstiles to exit there were probably 20 or so people behind me. They locked the gate at 10:22.

This angers me because I have never seen this before, and I was not prepared. I normally have plenty of time to take whatever pictures I want and then move on before security comes anywhere near me. Not only was security moving much quicker than they ever have before, they were rude as well. I won't tolerate this, and if it happens again I will not return. Yes, I realize I am only one person, and they laugh at the idea of just losing the money from one Premier AP, but I'm not going to pay to be rushed out of the park. I do not arrive early to the parks. I usually arrive much later in the day, and stay until after closing. Those few minutes of tranquility I get when there are few people in the park are what makes the park "magical". If Disney takes that away, then there is nothing left for me.

My question is, has this happened to anyone else at the DLR or at WDW? Can any photographers, or anyone else, tell me if they have noticed anything else unusual in the past three weeks or so?

This really makes me sad. I can ignore the "princessification" of the parks. I can ignore the lousy food. I can ignore the crowds. I can ignore the dirty parks and rides (for the most part). I can't ignore having them take away the few moments of "magic" I get after most of the people leave. Without that, the food, the crowds, the dirty attractions, and the princesses everywhere become too much. Without the magic, Disney is worth nothing to me anymore. Greed is ruining my "Laughing Place", and it's hard to accept.

ETA: For comparison, at the MK, if the park closes at midnight I am usually waiting for the monorail at 1:20 or so. As I leave the park, about 1:15, security is nowhere near Town Square. They are still at the MS/Hub border.

I've been the last person out of a park before. Several times. Never while taking photos tho.....

Suffice to say, my experience in dealing with any sort of security while working behind a camera suggests that the minute you argue with a cop/security guard/ any barney fife with an ounce of power means you've lost. They're not gonna see it your way. Not saying you did that, just a bit of friendly advice.

 

[Matt_Black]

I don't defend everything they do. For instance, I have been very vocal about my disapproval of Starbucks in the Magic Kingdom. Stop trying to dress up your butt-hurt over rules actually being enforced more stringently as some sort of righteous indignation.

 

[photomatt]

I've been the last person out of a park before. Several times. Never while taking photos tho.....

Suffice to say, my experience in dealing with any sort of security while working behind a camera suggests that the minute you argue with a cop/security guard/ any barney fife with an ounce of power means you've lost. They're not gonna see it your way. Not saying you did that, just a bit of friendly advice.

What park was it and when? Did security ask you to leave or just hover around you until you "got the message"?

 

[photomatt]

I don't defend everything they do. For instance, I have been very vocal about my disapproval of Starbucks in the Magic Kingdom. Stop trying to dress up your butt-hurt over rules actually being enforced more stringently as some sort of righteous indignation.

OK. Coffee is your issue. I respect that. I don't understand why, but I respect it.

If you raised the issue again now, I would never support Disney by using the argument, "Disney has always had corporate sponsors in the parks. Why is Starbucks different than Monsanto or Bank of America?"

I'm also not butt-hurt. I'm sad, yes. Butt-hurt, no. You also claim that the rules are actually being enforced now. I find it absurd for anyone to claim that the "rules" haven't been enforced for the past several decades. I'm 100 percent certain that whatever policy was in place before the budget cuts was enforced then. The issue is that the policy before the budget cuts wasn't so draconian.

 

[PhotoDave219]

What park was it and when? Did security ask you to leave or just hover around you until you "got the message"?

Dude there's been countless times working as a photojournalist I've interacted with police, threatened with arrest, etc. The rent-a-cops around federal buildings are the worst. Security guards at the Yankee's spring training rank a good second. I find playing nice usually works.

That being said, I did get the cops called on me outside of DHS as I was waiting to video the Frozen-works for one last time. Security Manager and an OC Deputy came over. We had a decent conversation. Security manager was horribly annoyed that someone was wasting his time. Deputy had the same camera I did. It was right where the path from Boardwalk and the parking lot met and you get the water in the bottom of the frame. Used to be a straight shot onto the hat.

 

[photomatt]

Dude there's been countless times working as a photojournalist I've interacted with police, threatened with arrest, etc. The rent-a-cops around federal buildings are the worst. Security guards at the Yankee's spring training rank a good second. I find playing nice usually works.

That being said, I did get the cops called on me outside of DHS as I was waiting to video the Frozen-works for one last time. Security Manager and an OC Deputy came over. We had a decent conversation. Security manager was horribly annoyed that someone was wasting his time. Deputy had the same camera I did. It was right where the path from Boardwalk and the parking lot met and you get the water in the bottom of the frame. Used to be a straight shot onto the hat.

Why would Disney bother you there? I have seen lots of video taken from that area. Were they bored or something?

 

[Matt_Black]

OK. Coffee is your issue. I respect that. I don't understand why, but I respect it.

If you raised the issue again now, I would never support Disney by using the argument, "Disney has always had corporate sponsors in the parks. Why is Starbucks different than Monsanto or Bank of America?"

Well, it's different in a lot of ways, mostly related to theming. Designer coffee does not square with Walt's vision of Small Town America, at least in my mind. Furthermore, corporate sponsors aren't as in your face as taking over what had been a Magic Kingdom mainstay. For comparison's sake, let's look at all the Coca-Cola signs in Casey's Corner. Coca-Cola is a sponsor, yes, but they do not run it. Furthermore, Coke actually dates back to that bygone era, so it is not out of place. People did wax their mustaches, buy a cold Coca-Cola, and then proceed to watch 10 hours of baseball back then.

 

[photomatt]

Well, it's different in a lot of ways, mostly related to theming. Designer coffee does not square with Walt's vision of Small Town America, at least in my mind. Furthermore, corporate sponsors aren't as in your face as taking over what had been a Magic Kingdom mainstay. For comparison's sake, let's look at all the Coca-Cola signs in Casey's Corner. Coca-Cola is a sponsor, yes, but they do not run it. Furthermore, Coke actually dates back to that bygone era, so it is not out of place. People did wax their mustaches, buy a cold Coca-Cola, and then proceed to watch 10 hours of baseball back then.

Good points. I agree.

 

[RandySavage]

I'm 100 percent certain that whatever policy was in place before the budget cuts was enforced then. The issue is that the policy before the budget cuts wasn't so draconian.

I feel your pain. There is nothing quite like the off-hours, nearly-empty park.

Having never stayed past closing, I wasn't even aware DL had a ~2-hour, unwritten courtesy period, where they have - for many years, it seems - allowed people to filter out of the park at a leisurely pace. It sounds like a nice, classy way of handling closing, and if I were a west coaster, I'd try to enjoy/photograph that post-closing ambiance, once in a while.

Sorry to hear they may be changing that practice somewhat, just as so many other above-and-beyond practices have be excised.