Crowds are down? Curious about the claims . . .

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
You have WAY too much time on your hands. I'm kind of disappointed you didn't make a spreadsheet or powerpoint. Regardless, I exaggerated nothing. Should I show you my statements and reservation charges to satisfy you? Probably not.

Your fanboi defense is actually breath taking. I'm sorry I soiled your fantasy land. Enjoy it your own way, but WDW is an overpriced shadow of its former self. I know you won't miss me and that's a harder pill to swallow :) I'm moving on.
It never ceases to amaze me how people are somehow surprised by the prices that theme parks charge. I'm not referring only to WDW, but any theme park across the country; heck...even state fairs charge higher amounts.

WDW is a vacation destination and should be treated as such, meaning when on vacation you should expect to spend more money and pay higher amounts. If I want to go to the USF vs. FSU football game in late September...I'm looking at spending $90 for nosebleed seats. So I'm confused as to why WDW gets picked on for the prices they charge.

I spent $15 on a silly plastic Dinglehopper toy for my daughter on Saturday; it probably cost about $0.25 to make, but Disney charged me $15. I'm not complaining and I happily bought it, but that was my choice.

If you don't like the prices being charged, no one is forcing you to go and if you do go, no one is forcing you to spend extra money.

Exactly my point. As I stated above, Disney is luxury. Im not defending the increases, but they should be expected and you are naive to think you are going to get a bargain at the parks/resorts.
 

RobbinsDad

Well-Known Member
As usual, the truth lies in between. Price increases at WDW are certainly on a higher trajectory than most middle-class family incomes, but as others have stated that's not unique to the World. Food and drink prices have always been higher in the parks. I can remember my Mom complaining once that she had to spend roughly 6.00 for my burger combo one day at Cosmic Ray's. All Disney resorts, even FW have always been a luxury experience. Stay in the resort and you get more than the other guests, simple as that. However there are many resorts outside the Disney gates that are quite affordable and in many cases a better resort experience (or better yet, go to VRBO and rent a 4-bedroom house with a pool in a gated community for half the price of a moderate resort), so if lodging budget is your concern don't pretend there aren't options.

The main problem Disney has isn't the prices themselves, it's the return on investment. The "magic" simply isn't what it used to be. If a multi-year visitor isn't noticing this, then they have crossed into the enchanted realm of the pixie duster. Trash piled high. Cast members without a clue. Rides down more often. Planning and reservation systems so cumbersome that if you haven't planned every 15 minutes of your vacation in advance expect major inconvenience. WDW is still a wonderful place, just don't attempt to compare it to what you know, and always take a newbie with you so you can see it through their eyes. :)
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
Chili's is our kids' favorite here at home, but it's typically around $50 for our family of four. I certainly expect to pay more while in WDW, but it's getting out of hand IMO.
Not sure what Chili's you eat at, but my wife and I were there on Saturday, and spent almost $60 just for the 2 of us. She had a salad. We did have one adult beverage each. Yes, everyone can chime in on how they used the $10 meal deal or some other such nonsense to say that you can spend less. Of course you can. Well, I can go to McD's and spend less, but we choose not too.
 

Aqueeta

Member
If you don't like the prices being charged, no one is forcing you to go and if you do go, no one is forcing you to spend extra money.
Forgive me if I am wrong, but didn't and doesn't Disney benefit from many tax credits and subsidies that these people who you tell to take a hike are having to pay for in terms of National Debt?
 

Biff215

Well-Known Member
Not sure what Chili's you eat at, but my wife and I were there on Saturday, and spent almost $60 just for the 2 of us. She had a salad. We did have one adult beverage each. Yes, everyone can chime in on how they used the $10 meal deal or some other such nonsense to say that you can spend less. Of course you can. Well, I can go to McD's and spend less, but we choose not too.
We're in South Jersey, not exactly the cheapest place to live but not the city either. No meal deals or coupons, two adult meals, two kids meals, non-alcoholic drinks. $50-60 every time including tip, around $40 when kids meals are free. But I guess I'm making this up to make Disney look bad?
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
As usual, the truth lies in between. Price increases at WDW are certainly on a higher trajectory than most middle-class family incomes, but as others have stated that's not unique to the World. Food and drink prices have always been higher in the parks. I can remember my Mom complaining once that she had to spend roughly 6.00 for my burger combo one day at Cosmic Ray's. All Disney resorts, even FW have always been a luxury experience. Stay in the resort and you get more than the other guests, simple as that. However there are many resorts outside the Disney gates that are quite affordable and in many cases a better resort experience (or better yet, go to VRBO and rent a 4-bedroom house with a pool in a gated community for half the price of a moderate resort), so if lodging budget is your concern don't pretend there aren't options.

All very true. There are definitely more budget minded ways to go to Disney, if someone wants to.

The main problem Disney has isn't the prices themselves, it's the return on investment. The "magic" simply isn't what it used to be. If a multi-year visitor isn't noticing this, then they have crossed into the enchanted realm of the pixie duster. Trash piled high. Cast members without a clue. Rides down more often. Planning and reservation systems so cumbersome that if you haven't planned every 15 minutes of your vacation in advance expect major inconvenience. WDW is still a wonderful place, just don't attempt to compare it to what you know, and always take a newbie with you so you can see it through their eyes. :)
Hmm, I've been going to WDW for almost 40 years now. We are DVC members and AP holders and visit 2-3 times every year, sometimes more. As usual, there is a lot more exaggeration in your post. The rides are not down any more often that they have been in the past. One must remember that some of these are over 40 years old, and things break more often at that age. Rides go down all the time for a variety of reasons, and sometimes it's the guests themselves doing something stupid that causes the ride to stop, a lot more nowadays than in the past. People were a lot more respectful back then.

We interact with the CMs all the time, and it's some of the best times we have there. In over 20 visits just in the last 10 years, we have had exactly ONE bad interaction, and we reported that to his manager immediately, and never saw him again. ONE. None have been clueless, and all have been helpful. Maybe your attitude reflects theirs??

Trash piled high??? We have been there twice in the last 6 months and have yet to see this. Yes, I've seen the pictures, but we have no context for them. Just because a trash can is full after a parade or wishes doesn't mean that it wasn't emptied a short time later when the crowds allowed the CMs to safely empty it. We have yet to see a bathroom that was dirty as some have reported.

Cumbersome planning???? Really??? Since we have been going for so many years, we have our favorites that must be done every trip, and we also want to try new things every trip. Yes, even after going to the MK literally hundreds of times over the years (I used to live in Orlando), we still find new things every single trip, whether it be a new attractions, show, parade, or someplace to eat. Of course being DVC members, we make our resort reservations at the 11 month mark, and then change over to a new resort at 7 months if we decide to do so. Takes about 5 minutes for each one. We then make a few ADRs at 180 days for those very few places that you need them farther out. Again, takes about 15 minutes on the web site. We add a few more as we go along which again takes about 5 minutes. We have a tentative schedule for what park on a particular day around 70 days out, and then plan our FP+. Usually takes about 20 minutes for a week long trip to get them all. So now we are into reservations for about an hour of our time during an 11 month window. Not really excessive by any standards I would think. Oh, and we love the FP+ system. We have experienced it with all 3 - no FP, old paper FP, and now FP+, and we prefer FP+ over any of it. We are older, so we aren't running anywhere to get the old paper FP, and would frequently end up with times that didn't work for us. Maybe we already had a lunch or dinner ADR, and the FP conflicted. Now we can stroll to a park, knowing that our favorites are waiting for us.

Sorry that the magic seems to be gone for you, but it doesn't have to be. It isn't for us, and we still think it's a great value.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
We're in South Jersey, not exactly the cheapest place to live but not the city either. No meal deals or coupons, two adult meals, two kids meals, non-alcoholic drinks. $50-60 every time including tip, around $40 when kids meals are free. But I guess I'm making this up to make Disney look bad?
Of course not. We just eat differently is all.
 

Biff215

Well-Known Member
Of course not. We just eat differently is all.
I was responding to the claim that Chili's costs $100 for a family of four. This simply isn't true for my family, yet all of our meals in Disney were $100+, after we saved 20%. This represents a significant increase over recent years.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
I was responding to the claim that Chili's costs $100 for a family of four. This simply isn't true for my family, yet all of our meals in Disney were $100+, after we saved 20%. This represents a significant increase over recent years.
Ahh, understood. Still don't get the comparison between Chili's and Disney. Meals at any sporting, theme park, etc. venue, as stated, are going to be a lot more expensive than a middle-of-the-road chain restaurant. Just the way it is.

You can also make the statement that eating at Chili's is more expensive than McD's, and yet you can sit down at either of them. Silly comparison, but so are the rest of them.
 

RobidaFlats

Well-Known Member
The rides are not down any more often that they have been in the past. One must remember that some of these are over 40 years old, and things break more often at that age.

If the rides are not down more often, why must one remember that their age makes them break more often? It's an honest question, it appears that you are arguing that there are not more breakdowns while at the same time defending that there are.
 

RobbinsDad

Well-Known Member
Cumbersome planning???? Really??? Since we have been going for so many years, we have our favorites that must be done every trip, and we also want to try new things every trip. Yes, even after going to the MK literally hundreds of times over the years (I used to live in Orlando), we still find new things every single trip, whether it be a new attractions, show, parade, or someplace to eat. Of course being DVC members, we make our resort reservations at the 11 month mark, and then change over to a new resort at 7 months if we decide to do so. Takes about 5 minutes for each one. We then make a few ADRs at 180 days for those very few places that you need them farther out. Again, takes about 15 minutes on the web site. We add a few more as we go along which again takes about 5 minutes. We have a tentative schedule for what park on a particular day around 70 days out, and then plan our FP+. Usually takes about 20 minutes for a week long trip to get them all. So now we are into reservations for about an hour of our time during an 11 month window. Not really excessive by any standards I would think. Oh, and we love the FP+ system. We have experienced it with all 3 - no FP, old paper FP, and now FP+, and we prefer FP+ over any of it. We are older, so we aren't running anywhere to get the old paper FP, and would frequently end up with times that didn't work for us. Maybe we already had a lunch or dinner ADR, and the FP conflicted. Now we can stroll to a park, knowing that our favorites are waiting for us.

I don't want to get into an argument, but to me and I'm sure others, this is the very definition of cumbersome. Just curious because I'm not one so it's a real question, how many annual passholders know 180 days out the exact day they're going to Disney? And is it difficult to make ADR's thanks to the 180+10 crowds?

And I'm glad, truly, that the system has worked flawlessly for you so far. Because then you don't know the burden of standing for an hour in the queue at Guest Relations outside Magic Kingdom when your magic band suddenly doesn't work, then having to reschedule your first fastpass because you've missed the window (in fairness, they did give us a magic(?) FP for the attraction to use any time that day). Or arriving back at your room at 11 PM dog tired, only to not be able to enter the room because the band doesn't work. Or walking up to a snack vendor to buys some popsicles, and your dining plan information not working on the band (here's an example where CM attitude worked in our favor, when the band wouldn't scan correctly, the girl rolled her eyes, and said "here", giving me 4 popsicles for free). I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but so is yours.

As a DVC member, does it bother you that in order to enjoy the full fruits of your membership, you have to know 1 year in advance exactly when you will go and start planning then? My family has a membership at Moon Palace in Cancun, and we can plan a few months in advance and book excursions and activities when we get there. I know it's apples and oranges between the 2 places, but if you're paying for a premium experience it should come with minimal effort, IMO.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
If the rides are not down more often, why must one remember that their age makes them break more often? It's an honest question, it appears that you are arguing that there are not more breakdowns while at the same time defending that there are.
Good point. Guess I didn't proof read very well before posting my tome. Was supposed to say they require more maintenance due to their age.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Of course not. We just eat differently is all.

I was responding to the claim that Chili's costs $100 for a family of four. This simply isn't true for my family, yet all of our meals in Disney were $100+, after we saved 20%. This represents a significant increase over recent years.

We all eat differently, whether at Chili's or at WDW, as we consume other products differently, and there is no right or wrong. We are all raised with different things drilled into our heads - and even respond to it differently. You can have two siblings, each constantly forced to be thrifty by a thrifty Dad, and one may grow up to copy the Dad while the other may grow up to be the opposite in rebellion to the Dad.
 

Biff215

Well-Known Member
Ahh, understood. Still don't get the comparison between Chili's and Disney. Meals at any sporting, theme park, etc. venue, as stated, are going to be a lot more expensive than a middle-of-the-road chain restaurant. Just the way it is.

You can also make the statement that eating at Chili's is more expensive than McD's, and yet you can sit down at either of them. Silly comparison, but so are the rest of them.
Wasn't my comparison, it was thrown out there by @CaptainAmerica I believe. I definitely expect to pay more in Disney, and have done so twice a year since 1999. Prices will always rise, and most have been in line with our expectations until recently. Cost/value is certainly a subjective thing, but for us it has hit that point where we are rethinking our future vacations which honestly saddens me. Even with consistently great vacations, I can't turn a blind eye to what we're spending.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
I don't want to get into an argument, but to me and I'm sure others, this is the very definition of cumbersome. Just curious because I'm not one so it's a real question, how many annual passholders know 180 days out the exact day they're going to Disney? And is it difficult to make ADR's thanks to the 180+10 crowds?
First, I agree, don't want to argue, but discuss is a good thing. :D Well, I have to say that everyone's experience is different. We aren't local anymore, so can't comment on any other passholders experience. I'm sure they run the gamut from great like ours to horrendous for others.

Actually, it's been proven many times here that there are only a handful of places that you need to make reservations right at the 180 day mark. Yes, if your princess (not throwing this at you personally) needs to dine at CRT, then you need to make that one at 180. If there is a bit of flexibility, you can get 1900 Park Faire at GF in less than a month, and sometimes, less than a week out. Yes, there are times, like during the horrendous free dining period that reservations might be harder to get, but simply don't schedule your vacation then. And if you need free dining to go to Disney, well, sorry, but maybe you need to either rethink your vacation or save money for a longer period of time. Just my opinion, and I know, not a popular one around here, but too bad, that's how I feel. Disney is a luxury vacation. My parents were sold middle class, and could never afford to take us to DL in the 60's or WDW in the early 70's.

And I'm glad, truly, that the system has worked flawlessly for you so far. Because then you don't know the burden of standing for an hour in the queue at Guest Relations outside Magic Kingdom when your magic band suddenly doesn't work, then having to reschedule your first fastpass because you've missed the window (in fairness, they did give us a magic(?) FP for the attraction to use any time that day). Or arriving back at your room at 11 PM dog tired, only to not be able to enter the room because the band doesn't work. Or walking up to a snack vendor to buys some popsicles, and your dining plan information not working on the band (here's an example where CM attitude worked in our favor, when the band wouldn't scan correctly, the girl rolled her eyes, and said "here", giving me 4 popsicles for free). I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but so is yours.

Nope, we don't know that burden. The only room MB issue for us was my wife's didn't work on the room door, and the CM at the concierge desk fixed it in under 2 minutes as we were heading out to the park. How could you not know at 11pm that none of your MBs would open the door? Didn't they work earlier when you left the room? We don't commando the park, so don't get dog tired on vacation anymore. We take it easy so we don't need a vacation from our vacation.

As a DVC member, does it bother you that in order to enjoy the full fruits of your membership, you have to know 1 year in advance exactly when you will go and start planning then? My family has a membership at Moon Palace in Cancun, and we can plan a few months in advance and book excursions and activities when we get there. I know it's apples and oranges between the 2 places, but if you're paying for a premium experience it should come with minimal effort, IMO.
Nope, doesn't bother us at all. When you buy into DVC, you know the rules, and you know what you'll have to do. Research is key as I will be the first to state that DVC membership isn't for everyone. It works for us.
 

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